markk900

I've got a mid 50s English 3-speed (a Standard Model K), that I assume has a bottom bracket that requires oiling. There is a fitting that looks amazingly like a grease fitting on one side, except it has no "shoulders" like a modern fitting.



So the questions are: 1) How does the oil get to the drive side? 2) What is the proper way to oil one of these? I've been using an oilcan with a good quality automotive multigrade, however I don't get much oil in each time (seems to want to come out rather than in).

I haven't taken apart the BB since it feels smooth when spinning it, but I thought it best to check with the experts......

Mark

BTW: that piece of flash on the BB shell is driving me nuts - should I file it off? Purists only need answer.....

rhm

What do you mean, flash? I don't get that part.

Your BB doesn't require oil. As long as it was assembled with good grease, it should be fine for a good long time. If the grease is 50+ years old, a little oil might help thin out the old grease, of course. And if the grease is that old, an overhaul might be in order anyway.

But basically these oil fittings date to a time when theorists held that oil was much more efficient than grease. Some BB's were actually made to be full of oil, rather than grease. Possibly you have one of those, but you can't tell unless you take it apart. But by the mid 50's that oil port was a holdover from an earlier age, and by the mid 60's it was gone.

As for how to get the oil in there... ah, well, there you got me. I assume there's a tool for that, but one I don't have.

Road Fan

I think that oil fitting has a movable center section, which will move away when the right oil can end is connected to it. But I'd really suggest taking that photo to the local hardware stores, and see if they can tell you how it's supposed to work, or maybe provide a replacement fitting that is more versatile. If you do take it apart and decide to maintain it with grease, probably the fitting should be removed and the hole plugged, since no good can come of a place for dirt to enter.

It might also be a grease fitting, where the pressure of a grease gun forces the valve open. My thought is, if the bearing is to be greased, it's better to refresh grease by overhauling than by shooting in new grease. I think new oil will slosh in the housing and lube both bearings, but I don't think new grease will do that. If you're going to keep it running as an oiled bearing, I have read that oil should be replenished rather frequently.

If you can score a copy of Effective Cycling by John Forester, with the blue cover, he talks a lot about such bearing lube schemes. Take it as more input, but Forester is someone who was a young cyclist when this scheme was common. For constructive info, I'd trust what he retained from his young days. He truly loved cycling, so I'd think he only told us what he believes in his heart to be correct.

markk900

If you look at the junction between the down tube and the BB, just ahead of the oil port, you'll see a piece of leftover casting material (aka flash)....its thin and sharp and looks ugly.....but its been there 56 years.....

So you think the BB is greased? I'm loath to take it apart because there's nothing apparently wrong (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and because I don't want to get into hassles with the cotter on the non-drive side (I don't yet have a cotter press).....

Mark

Road Fan

Re: the "flash" et cetera

Not sure I see anything that looks like a problem. Whatever is there has not kept that frame from maintaining it's integrity over the past 60-70 years. I see no good reason to make it perfect - real vintage freaks would think it's perfect if it is as it has aged.

ok, 56 years!

Greased or not, if it's rough, sluggish, or crunchy it needs to come apart and at least get new fresh balls and cleaning. If it's greased and it has not been overhauled for a few years, it probably has hardened old grease that really needs to be removed. If it's oiled, I'm not sure what can go wrong, but if oiling has not been frequent enough, there could be wear. If you have the proper tools for cotters or at least a method to use for servicing them, go for it.

Homebrew01

Ignore the oil port. Either overhaul it with proper grease, or leave it alone.

JohnDThompson 

In some cases it relies on good karma to slosh the oil around to where it belongs. In other cases you might find a felt wick to guide the oil to the proper place.

Oldpeddaller

If you really want to use the oil port, push the spring loaded ball bearing in at its centre then drip your oil past it into the shell. 30 grade oil or similar used to be used. Personally I'd strip it down and grease it - the oil ALWAYS ran out onto the crank spindle then sprayed onto your socks!

If you're really worried about that messy piece of flash, chip or file it off and dab some paint over the scar. If it's been there so long though it can't be doing any harm!

JohnDThompson 

I assume thisis what he means:

Buikema

Okay, okay... grease is more efficient, easier, lower maintenance and all that. However, I think oil takes it in the cool department. I wish I had a bike that had a bottom bracket that needed oiling.

I do have a bike that the hubs need oiling, which I like. There is a little clip cover thing that keeps the hole covered, just slide it out of the way and there is a hole to drip some oil into the center of the hub. Yes, even with the cover in place some of the oil creeps out, but the side benefit is that I never have to worry about rust no the hub or spokes down there.

I say if that is an oil port, take the BB all apart, clean it, and put it back together. The oil (or grease?) port it self should, with gentle coaxing, unscrew from the shell and then you can take it in to the hardware store to replace and/or identify it and see if its what you need for the oil can above.

Let us know what you do.

FlatTop

That oil fitting probably unscrews, judging by the hex on the outside, which might be either Whitworth or universal (Crescent wrench).

Should you feel gutsy, take it off and poke around inside with a bit of wire.
If it comes out coated with clean-looking grease or oil, which is unlikely, you've no worries.
If it comes out coated with dirty oil, you could keep adding oil to flush out the crud.
If instead it comes out coated with gunky rust and metallic particles, which is possible, then you probably ought to disassemble and clean/rebuild the BB.

On my old Rudge's bottom bracket, which has a plastic oil fill that looks just like the one on a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub, I decided not to go into the BB, but to simply oil the thing. It didn't feel loose, gritty or draggy when I got the bike, and regular oiling has kept it in good working condition.

One observation to those who complain of the mess post-oiling: British equipment of all kinds will have a special relationship with oil. Cars and motorcycles are beyond the scope of this forum (mostly), but old British bicycles seem to enjoy having their front and rear hubs and bottom brackets drenched in oil, chain oiled, a drip of oil into the tire pump to keep the leather washer in decent fettle, then a good application of Proofide to the Brooks saddle, then wipe all down and ride. IMVHO. (ducks)

juls

Where's the dip stick?

Charles Wahl

Fittings like these are often found to have a tapered thread, as with much plumbing. I wouldn't remove it; it's not hurting anything. I'm not sure whether it's an oil port or a grease port, but it surely has a ball (exposed) with a spring behind it. You either use a grease gun that fits on "zerk" fittings like this, or else an oiler with a snout that pushes the ball down as it provides oil. I like to oil hubs and BBs when it's easy enough, but I'm in a distinct and shrinking minority.

markk900

Thanks all for the replies so far.....The port does have a spring loaded ball you can see the end of, and to JDT's post I am using an oilcan remarkably like the one he posted. But unlike with a grease gun, where there is a tight fit and you can force new lube in under pressure, the oil sort of gravity feeds into that hole since the oilcan does not have a tight fit. I'll probably eventually pull it apart, and if things look good in there put it all back together and continue to use oil - the bike isn't going to see high mileage anyway. If things look bad it will be a refurbish with new parts and fresh grease - once it's apart the first time I'll do it every couple of years as a maintenance task. I'm just reluctant to break the "seal" of a bottom end/crank set that does not appear to have been touched in 50+ years.

My experience with grease ports on vintage motorcycles is that they were often press fit, so pulling the original out and replacing with modern ones that work well with current grease guns is common. I agree this one looks like a threaded part, but frankly if I am going to poke around at all its all coming apart!

As to the flash....I will probably file off the offending piece (yes JDT was pointing to the correct flaw) - no question of it being an integrity issue - just a poorly finished shell when it was new.

So my original question #2 was what was the correct way to oil those BBs - sounds like it was "gravity" or slight pressure offered by the oil can, no fancy oiling fittings....

Mark

markk900

Oh, and to FlatTop: being the ex-owner of a couple of 60s British motorcycles.....as we always said, if its not leaking its out of oil....

Oldpeddaller

..........But it does delay the onset of rusting in a cold, wet climate!

michaeldaruwala

Perhaps you could try removing the seat post and pouring some gear oil down the downtube. Keep a piece of rag, to mop up the oil that seeps out overnight. Campy had an oiling hole in their hubs, which you dont see anymore. Your oiling hole is kind of a quaint feature on the frame, I would not tamper with it.

cudak888 

FYI, that fitting doesn't look the same as the factory oil port on my 1951 frames. I'll post a picture soon.

-Kurt

bobn

Like FlatTop says, take off the fitting. It will give you a larger hole to pour lubricant in. Then screw it back on.
I have been pouring 80W-90 down the seat tube for years now. It can be messy, but I would rather do that than screw around with those cottered cranks. Park the bike over rags after riding and eventually it will stop leaking. Remember most English 3 speeds will leak when over filled.

jrecoi

I was reading through BikeSmith Design's how to on oiling Sturmey Archer hubs, and it occurred to me that you could add a dab of tan soap based automotive grease onto the spindle right as it is leaving the bottom bracket cups. Since it is soap based, the grease shouldn't dissolve when it runs up against oil that is trying to leak out. If rebuilding the bottom bracket, smearing the threads with the same grease should prevent leaking through the threads.

unterhausen

I used to run 40 weight motor oil in my bb and it worked fine. You really don't need much. If it's going to get wet a lot you tie a rag tightly around the bb axle.

The bb shell is cast, and they had a blowout where the "flash" is. It's not going to come off, I'd get used to it.