KentS

Ha. Told you so.

However that price is clearly for expedited delivery -- it is a way for Helix to get quick cash.

Joe Remi

It's reasonable for a titanium bike, but they aren't going to sell many. Maybe the plan is to deliver all the KS and pre-order bikes, then just kinda hang around for high-dollar custom orders if any ever trickle in.

Jipe

For other KS projects like the Vellobike+, the bikes ordered buy real customers and shops had priority WRT. KS backers bikes and were delivered before the bikes of the KS backers.

Such a much higher price than during the KS campaign let think that as already said many-times, the KS price is lower that the Helix production cost.

It was easy to sell Helix at 1700-2110 Can$.

The question is now how many customers will buy Helix at 3500-4000USD ? (+ import taxes for many places in the world) ?

Let see if the newly ordered bikes will really be delivered in December as promised.

MrFlamey

They have all the production equipment they need to make bikes at a reasonable rate, and at $3600+ these things are not going to be flying off the shelves, so it's likely people who order now will receive bikes on time. The thing I am worried about now, as customer 1400+ that I won't ever get mine, since the last update had them at 200 odd bikes having been shipped, and there has not been a new update since September (not including this website update, of course).

I think I might have to send Mr Boutakis an email to ask if early preorder customers can be rolled into the backer messageboard because we are basically in the same boat as them. I would like to get a more realistic shipping date for my bike too.

tds101 

Just an FYI: Helix bikes can be ordered NOW, and the price is $3,500 - $4,000, with a December delivery date,...
https://www.helix.ca/

I only found out about this in an email today, as I'd signed up to be notified when sales had begun.

Bikestyle

Hi Namor, let’s take this offline. Do give me your contact. Cheers.

RatonLaveur

At least there is movement and the question of the real price point is finally settled. Even during the first Pre-order round they clearly stated "last chance to get it at this price".
I agree that the bike will not fly off the shelves but the current asking price doesn't seem outlandish. Yes this is now officially a premium bike. Yes it's much much more than the kickstarter price (that was attacking the Brompton price point) but it's still a lot of bike for that price.

I often see in my country people sporting 3k to 6k bikes. Not all of them electric. So my opinion of Helix on this release is it's business as usual: wait and see. 2020 might be the year to get stuck in with Helix.

For comparison, just look at the new Tern BYB at 2.6k...and that's with small wheels and small frame, once folded it is still slightly more cumbersome than a helix.

Although happy with my Tern Node for the wheel size, frame size and ability to fold, it is definitely not compact and I don't even bother storing it inside. Hopping a train with it is not exactly a chore but I always think twice before doing it. With a Helix I wouldn't. Guaranteed.

Joe Remi

It exists, it's priced fairly, it's cool. I don't see a business case for it in a bicycle market being slammed in every category by ebikes, but more power to Helix and anyone who wants one.

ladi

It's an upper bound of their current(!) production costs. I guess it still could become lower if they improve their production process.

If their costs per unit are anywhere close to that number and they don't improve it, then I see no way they can deliver all kickstarter bikes.

RatonLaveur

Yeah. High likelihood that part of the margin is bumped up to offset the cost of the long road through production hell and the kickstarter units.

As Joe Remi said: more power to them. I'm just honestly glad Peter made it this far and apparently is on the the easier part of the up slope... Without electric assistance this isn't a nothing feat

Jipe

Completely agree with this statement: things changed since 2015.

In 2015, there was an increasing demand for folders. Brompton also expected an increase of sales of folders and moved to a bigger factory with much bigger production capacity.

But this huge increase of sales of folders didn't really happen.

What happened is a huge increase of sales of ebikes of all types, including folding ebikes.

The market is now waiting for a lightweight, easy folding, small efolder. The current efolders are too big and too heavy (the one with a low weight like the Vellobike+ have a ridiculously small battery).

I am afraid that there is no demand anymore for a 3.5-4KUSD folder without electric assistance.

With its current weight, adding an electric assist hub motor with a 300-400Wh battery to the Helix will result in a too heavy efolder.

The only way to have a lightweight ebike is to have a high degree of integration with a lightweight electric assist like the Fazua solution.

Acabal

There is a market for helix for commuters that want a bike more capable then the brompton. The ride quality of the helix is hugely better then the brompton. Plus it rolls better then bromton. I own it and would have no problem buying more of them when my current one gets old

mlau

I agree there's a market for the helix.

I have a love-hate relationship with my brompton. I love the fold, the utility, and the quirky feeling of being on my clown bike.

However, the ride sucks compared to most folding bikes...much less other non-folding bikes.

I will be looking at the helix with much interest.

spambait11

According to Peter’s recent update, all bikes (single speed, derailleur, Alfine) slated for December 2019 delivery are sold out.

No word on how many total bikes were sold.

wilhelmine

Maybe about ten bikes per month at full retail price.
Then hurry up to anybody wants buy one and get it in first.
Next orders will resume December 16, 2019

tcs

Still cheaper than a Burke 20.

MrFlamey

Helix might be heavy (to some people, I guess it is, but seems fine to me, except maybe at the $4000 retail pricing), but because it's overengineered and tough, there will be opportunities to reduce the weight of the frame in the future. It's also designed with electric hub compatibility in mind, so maybe once the not insignificant number of remaining bikes have been produced, perhaps there will be a lighter v2, or an eHelix. It's early days, and I really hope Helix turns into a successful bike company, and not just a successful Kickstarter campaign... yeah, not least because I want to get my Helix and be able to maintain it in the future

dmnobrien

This December "jump the queue" offer seems like a good way for Helix to:
- raise some cash to keep the lights on (from those who want a bike NOW and are willing to pay top dollar for it), and
- test pricing for when the bike eventually (?) becomes generally available

If they sell out these queue offers, they can keep the price high (or even raise it).

Once they stop selling out (exhausting the limited supply of want-it-now-at-any-cost customers), they will need to lower the price to keep the queue full. Each round of offers gives them more information about how much people are really willing to spend.

So I figure the price in 6 months will be discounted from the premium December price, unless word of mouth or public reviews of the bike spike interest.

Speaking of which, I wonder if/when the bike-review sites will cover Helix. So far it's just been (very happy) early adopters, as far as I've seen.

Lalato

Based on other comments there are a very small number of bikes being sold this way. So while it will definitely yield some info, it's entirely possible that it's only grabbing the few that can afford it for some time to come. Let's say there are 100 people on the waiting list that would be happy to pay $4K for the bike. If they only release 10 bikes per "jump the queue" event, it will take some time to work through the high rollers.

So I see this primarily as raising cash, and I suspect that very little can be learned from such small runs regarding overall pricing. Considering how some kickstarters manage this type of thing where they simply kick all production over to new buyers and fulfill the backers at a much slower pace, I think this seems like a nice compromise. Get some needed cash, but don't completely stiff your backers.

Ozonation

Assuming Helix succeeds (and I certainly hope it does!), I cannot see the price being less than $3500 Cdn at regular pricing. I brought my Helix in to show my colleagues who cycle. One of them is a race marshal, cyclist with decades of experience, our lead tech with years of mechanical engineering related experience, and is very experienced at machining and welding. He marveled at the fit and finish, thought the helical pivots were ingenious, and remarked that such a bike would be priced at $3500 to $4000 easily given all it offers.

It's obvious that this bike is not for the "I-want-an-inexpensive-folder-so-I-can-bike-around-the-block-or-cottage-for-15-minutes" casual rider: it is geared (ha ha) for the discriminating enthusiast who wants the best in a folding bike design and is unwilling to sacrifice much for a comparable ride.

It isn't perfect, but for a folding bike, it's damn near close. I haven't fine tuned the ride to my preference but my major observations are:

• It's a stiff ride - great for handling, but could have benefitted from a few more millimetres clearance so that you could get slightly fatter tires for some more suspension. Mind you, the tires are not skinny by any stretch, and are fine for most riding conditions, but I could see getting Little Big Bens if the option existed.
• At 5'11", because I'm a little less upright than when I ride my Brompton, I could use maybe another cm or two horizontal space. So, I might see if I can get an extension to move the handlebars forward a bit.
• I cannot really tell if it rolls better or worse when folded compared to the Brompton. On my Brompton, I have the rack and on that I replaced the default rolling wheels with inline skate wheels, so it rolls much better but it does not turn as well and it does increase the weight slightly, and it's a bit cumbersome unless the surface is quite flat. For the Helix, when folded, it rolls on the front wheel only, so I have to tip it just slightly to one side so that the rear wheel is slightly elevated to avoid dragging and stopping the bike. This is actually pretty easy but I cannot quite find a hand grip position to optimally hold the bike. The video shows Peter holding the seat to roll the bike but when I do it, I find the nose of the saddle is not quite shaped or large enough to hold it. I almost need the finger grip contours that come on the default Brompton seat.
• I really wish they (Helix, Brompton, others) would not bother with those terrible foam grips. They suck. And it took forever to scrape off. I put Ergon grips on: makes a big difference in handling comfort.

mlau

I might be a weirdo, but I think their price is fair for what they offer....not amazing, but not outrageous either.

My understanding is titanium is a PITA to work with... unlike steel, aluminum, carbon, bamboo...

My main concern is:

1. Will the company be around if stuff breaks?
2. Does the bike fit me?
3. What accessories are available? Grocery/commuting bags?

After having the brompton for a while, I love the freedom of a folding bike. It's a bike that truly disappears when you don't need it, but does everything a utility bike would need.

However, brompton's don't ride that great.

On Oakland potholes and cracks, you could seriously get hurt... not to mention some badly maintained streets in SF.


As I get older, I want less stuff... just higher quality.

mlau

Also, ergons are pretty great.

Jipe

These are indeed the biggest concern about Helix.

Helix uses several proprietary parts, if the company disappear there are no replacements for those parts. But this is normal with a KS project product and its not a problem on the short term.

But the two points are really problematic for the current Helix user/buyer.

Helix is a single size bike, only the seat post and saddle position are adjustable, there is only on size of frame, one type of stem and one type of handlebar.
From the bike size information seen on the KS page (are these valid for the production Helix ?), it seems to me that Helix is made for people up to 1m75 maybe 1m80. Taller people will have problem. Changing the handlebar will probably help but will cause problems when folding the bike
Actually, I think that Helix has the same problem as the Tyrell bikes because the size of Helix is similar to the size of most Tyrell models.

The second point is indeed the accessories for Helix: at this point there are no specific accessories at all. Specific accessories (especially bags) is what makes the Brompton so user friendly.

Last point the poor performances if the Brompton on bad roads, even worse on cobbles, potholes... This is indeed the biggest weak point of the Brompton.

Having also two Moulton and a Birdy which is are full suspension bikes that ave no problem on very bad roads and a non suspended 28x622 wheels titanium frame bike that doesn't like bad roads, I can tell that the wheel size is not the problem,
The problem is the lack of front suspension and good rear suspension and the lack of wide low pressure tires.

Helix has no suspension at all, has a single arm very rigid fork and uses relatively narrow and high pressure tires.
So I think that even with bigger wheels than the Brompton the Helix performances and comfort on bad roads won't be great.

Joe Remi

The current retail price is fair, it's just not viable. A major selling point 3-4 years ago was it would be a lighter ti folder at a heavier steel price. The weight didn't work out and now neither has the price.

jur

I still look in here from time to time to check out what the news is on Helix.

I sooo hate to admit it, but you were right Joe.