Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes and no one cares
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No. While "recreational" road bikes often had more space than the "racing" models, most proper racing bikes from that era had pretty healthy clearances as well. Partly because wider tires existed and did get used (the Clement Campionato del Mondo Seta silk reportedly measured somewhere in the 28-30mm ballpark), and partly because road bikes weren't heavily specialized: pro racers didn't want to grind to a sudden halt every time they blew a spoke at Paris-Roubaix.
Clearances didn't start crunching down across the board until into the 1980s.
Bikes with 27" wheels generally came with tires 1 1/4" (~32mm) or narrower.
Clearances didn't start crunching down across the board until into the 1980s.
Bikes with 27" wheels generally came with tires 1 1/4" (~32mm) or narrower.
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Agreed, most important thing is to just ride.
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Anyone that says rim brakes are as much efficient as disc brakes, however, is an ignorant (literal sense of course). Regardless, that person is still entitled to having an opinion!
Last edited by eduskator; 02-26-20 at 11:24 AM.
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#357
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Nobody wants to hear other people say their stuff is ugly.
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Anyone that gets offended because of someone else's opinion/personal taste has an ego issue.
Anyone who says that rim brakes are as much efficient as disc brakes, however, is an ignorant (literal sense of course). Regardless, that person is still entitled to having an opinion!
Anyone who says that rim brakes are as much efficient as disc brakes, however, is an ignorant (literal sense of course). Regardless, that person is still entitled to having an opinion!
Definition of efficient
1 : productive of desired effects especially : capable of producing desired results with little or no waste (as of time or materials)If you watch the video I posted you will see that disc brakes are not more efficient in every respect. So anybody who says disc or rim or drum brakes are more efficient in all effects is ignorant (literal sense, again).
What anybody can say (and is not ignorant in the literal sense) is that disc or rim or drum brakes are *better*, because that is a subjective term which depends on the user. If your notion of better is ruled by ease of adjustment you get one thing, if you value braking power at 80 kph rolling down the alps, you probably get something else. Same thing with uglier or prettier or even sexier.
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#362
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Also, I just looked up photos of a 1978 Benotto 3000, and it's not obvious what about its geometry would dictate a limit of 23mm. The tires it's wearing in those images are about 23mm wide judging by the frontal shot. The fork and rear brake bridge clearly have room for far more, and the chainstay bridge is also positioned very high out from the tire. The only thing that might be preventing a much larger tire from being installed is the chainstay profile, which is hard to make out in the shots... but even if it is the limiting factor, you wouldn't really need to alter the bike's "geometry" to widen that up somewhat.
It's also bizarre that you're acting like I should have known that "world champion geometry" refers to the geometry of a single model of bicycle that Francesco Moser happened to ride to the rainbow stripes in the later years of the period being discussed. A whole lot of people rode bikes that could readily fit 28s or bigger to world championships in the 60s and 70s.
Last edited by HTupolev; 02-26-20 at 11:57 AM.
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Anybody remember Cavendish riding a hydraulic rim brake bike for a stage or two in the Tour? I think SRAM was working on a system. He said he liked them a lot. I think the problem they were having with them was controlling the right amount of force on the rims. Sometimes the rims would get crushed.
Rim brake is actually a very efficient system for slowing down a bicycle. It is when we started to add all these others things to the mix, like carbon wheels and hydro braking that required a different approach.
I am sure if the industry had to, they would be able to get hydro braking to work for rim applications. But given they have a solution that takes care of several issues important to consumers, it is doubtful that will ever occur.
Rim brake is actually a very efficient system for slowing down a bicycle. It is when we started to add all these others things to the mix, like carbon wheels and hydro braking that required a different approach.
I am sure if the industry had to, they would be able to get hydro braking to work for rim applications. But given they have a solution that takes care of several issues important to consumers, it is doubtful that will ever occur.
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That feeling of buying expensive CF wheels and then wearing them down to the bone due to the pressure & high temperatures generated by the friction; what a good one!
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Hi, I'm looking to buy a new road bike for fast rides. Should I get one with disc brakes like the racers have, or stick with old school technology? I've heard many say rim brakes are usually adequate, or good enough. Thanks!
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The rotor on the rear wheel almost disappears into the bike. There's a cassette on one end, a rotor on the other, it's like circular book ends. Front one stands out a little more.
I thought the DA rotors were ugly at first, the black fins seemed to make them stand out. But in a dark bike with black carbon rims, they look like they belong.
Flat mount looks like part of the frame.
I've always liked the aesthetic of modern race bikes, and disc brakes fit in pretty well.
I thought the DA rotors were ugly at first, the black fins seemed to make them stand out. But in a dark bike with black carbon rims, they look like they belong.
Flat mount looks like part of the frame.
I've always liked the aesthetic of modern race bikes, and disc brakes fit in pretty well.
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Those of us not subject to UCI weight limits do.
You can debate the significance of the weight penalty.
However, the UCI weight limit takes weight out of the debate for Pros and for much of a market that wants to ride what the pros ride
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The rotor on the rear wheel almost disappears into the bike. There's a cassette on one end, a rotor on the other, it's like circular book ends. Front one stands out a little more.
I thought the DA rotors were ugly at first, the black fins seemed to make them stand out. But in a dark bike with black carbon rims, they look like they belong.
Flat mount looks like part of the frame.
I've always liked the aesthetic of modern race bikes, and disc brakes fit in pretty well.
I thought the DA rotors were ugly at first, the black fins seemed to make them stand out. But in a dark bike with black carbon rims, they look like they belong.
Flat mount looks like part of the frame.
I've always liked the aesthetic of modern race bikes, and disc brakes fit in pretty well.
SRAM hydro brifters are big and bulbous but Shimano did a good job with theirs.
And I know, I need to cut the steering tube.
#370
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It's true that I'm not familiar with the tire clearance of literally every single model of bicycle ever made. I wasn't claiming that nobody had ever made a super-tight-clearance bicycle in the 60s or 70s; I was saying that it was typical for there to be wider clearance.
Also, I just looked up photos of a 1978 Benotto 3000, and it's not obvious what about its geometry would dictate a limit of 23mm. The tires it's wearing in those images are about 23mm wide judging by the frontal shot. The fork and rear brake bridge clearly have room for far more, and the chainstay bridge is also positioned very high out from the tire. The only thing that might be preventing a much larger tire from being installed is the chainstay profile, which is hard to make out in the shots... but even if it is the limiting factor, you wouldn't really need to alter the bike's "geometry" to widen that up somewhat.
It's also bizarre that you're acting like I should have known that "world champion geometry" refers to the geometry of a single model of bicycle that Francesco Moser happened to ride to the rainbow stripes in the later years of the period being discussed. A whole lot of people rode bikes that could readily fit 28s or bigger to world championships in the 60s and 70s.
Also, I just looked up photos of a 1978 Benotto 3000, and it's not obvious what about its geometry would dictate a limit of 23mm. The tires it's wearing in those images are about 23mm wide judging by the frontal shot. The fork and rear brake bridge clearly have room for far more, and the chainstay bridge is also positioned very high out from the tire. The only thing that might be preventing a much larger tire from being installed is the chainstay profile, which is hard to make out in the shots... but even if it is the limiting factor, you wouldn't really need to alter the bike's "geometry" to widen that up somewhat.
It's also bizarre that you're acting like I should have known that "world champion geometry" refers to the geometry of a single model of bicycle that Francesco Moser happened to ride to the rainbow stripes in the later years of the period being discussed. A whole lot of people rode bikes that could readily fit 28s or bigger to world championships in the 60s and 70s.
Also, I just looked up photos of a 1978 Benotto 3000, and it's not obvious what about its geometry would dictate a limit of 23mm. The tires it's wearing in those images are about 23mm wide judging by the frontal shot. The fork and rear brake bridge clearly have room for far more, and the chainstay bridge is also positioned very high out from the tire. The only thing that might be preventing a much larger tire from being installed is the chainstay profile, which is hard to make out in the shots... but even if it is the limiting factor, you wouldn't really need to alter the bike's "geometry" to widen that up somewhat.
It's also bizarre that you're acting like I should have known that "world champion geometry" refers to the geometry of a single model of bicycle that Francesco Moser happened to ride to the rainbow stripes in the later years of the period being discussed. A whole lot of people rode bikes that could readily fit 28s or bigger to world championships in the 60s and 70s.
Also, I just looked up photos of a 1978 Benotto 3000, and it's not obvious what about its geometry would dictate a limit of 23mm. The tires it's wearing in those images are about 23mm wide judging by the frontal shot. The fork and rear brake bridge clearly have room for far more, and the chainstay bridge is also positioned very high out from the tire. The only thing that might be preventing a much larger tire from being installed is the chainstay profile, which is hard to make out in the shots... but even if it is the limiting factor, you wouldn't really need to alter the bike's "geometry" to widen that up somewhat.
It's also bizarre that you're acting like I should have known that "world champion geometry" refers to the geometry of a single model of bicycle that Francesco Moser happened to ride to the rainbow stripes in the later years of the period being discussed. A whole lot of people rode bikes that could readily fit 28s or bigger to world championships in the 60s and 70s.
I'm sorry if you are offended if I seem bizarre, but I guess it is a bizarre to own as many bicycles as I do.
Here's a picture of the rear brake, where you can see the tight clearance. If you don't believe that it won't fit a 25 mm, well...
But back to rim brakes, I think these skeleton brakes are not too pretty (and a pain to keep clean), but they sure as ever have more than enough braking power on the steep mountain climbs which surround this city. Someday I might throw in some 250 euros to get the Record model, just for the pretty part.
#371
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"Everybody makes too big of a deal out of bike weight - a couple hundred grams isn't going to make any meaningful difference. Well, unless that few hundred grams is by way of disc brakes - those grams are ten times as heavy and nobody needs that ****."
- The42 41
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That's led to a artificially high number of bikes being sold for the last 3 years or so. That is starting to calm down as the tech become ubiquitous. The shift we will see in the next few years will be bike sales dropping and upgrades coming back up as people who have had their cool new bike with disc brakes for a few years now start to look for ways to freshen it up instead of buying another $3k-$8k bike.
So.... by nearly eliminating the rim brake option from most lines in most brands the industry did artificially create a push/need in people to buy full bicycles. It's just the way it is.
I'm not one to go for conspiracy theories though. There is no "Big Bike" as there isn't enough money in this industry for that to exist and hardly any of us can agree on anything let alone carry out a conspiracy. It's simply a lot of small brands going, "Uh... everyone else has disc. That's what people want I guess. We need to make disc bikes too. Make everything like the big guys are."
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People used to argue with me that they HAD to use alloy nipples because an extra 18g on a wheelset was going to be way too much.
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A moot point, considering tires are the weak link in the braking chain of events. Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4
... The contact patch is the weak link
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I've actually been discussing a lot of this with others in the industry. Almost all of us in the "accessories" or "upgrade" segments have seen a colossal drop in sales in the last few year. It's because people have gotten to the point where they can't just go buy an upgrade - they HAVE to buy a bike because the tech has changed that much and not a lot of the old stuff is still available or appealing to them anymore (I love those wheels but it looks like I'm going to have to go disc here in the short term anyway so I'll hold off for now).