Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-26-20, 01:02 PM
  #376  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston
There's one hill on Sheridan road but they closed it to bikes in the 80's claiming too many bike crashes. True story.
I finally went up Sheridan into Wisconsin last year for the first time in many years. Worst ride of the season. Constant close calls. I thought for sure I was eventually going to be hit or shot.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 01:07 PM
  #377  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
I didn't, really - for whatever reason, the new set of Ultegra levers/calipers came with metal pads installed, so I figured I'd give em a chance and use em.

Side note: I hope these things get considerably better after they bed in, because their stopping power is ass compared to resin so far.
I've gone to both ends with compounds. Soft for performance then stripping them because our muddy races would just blow them out and I was sick of swapping them all the time. So all to metallic. Bedded in they are great but yeah...almost have to warm them up first before they really start to bite. So back to resins.

This is all mostly with SRAM. With Shimano just about everything works great right out of the box.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 01:08 PM
  #378  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,297 Times in 2,947 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
This is the thing that always makes me roll my eyes back when people start with "Disc brakes are stronger". Uh... the largest rotor you can have is a rim.
Yes, the rim is the largest rotor you can have, but it has to work as a braking surface while fulfilling its other functions. I think the biggest potential benefit of disc brakes is the freedom to design rims without the constraints of having to accommodate brake tracks. You could optimize rims and brakes for their respective roles, without compromise.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 02-26-20, 01:10 PM
  #379  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev
Not exactly. Higher leverage means that you can get more clamping force for a given hand grip force, but it also means there's less pad engagement for a given lever travel. High-leverage v-brake setups can have a higher risk of bottoming out the lever against the bars before maximal braking is achieved, unless everything about the setup is very stiff and everything is very true and set close.

Cantilevers can be more prone to housing compression since the shorter pulls produce more cable tension, but if that's stiff, a good canti setup can produce quite a lot of clamping and fork flex. Case in point, check out these pads on the Tektro CR720s on my Campeur:



I foolishly set them up flat to the rim, and they went ahead and toed themselves in fairly dramatically. And that's not just in the brake mechanism: the flex under strong braking forces is clearly visible in the front rack, which has its upper mounts on the canti posts.

Interestingly, I see much less of that effect on the Deore T610 v-brakes on my gravel bike, which also gets a lot of hard stops on paved use. Those brakes also feel quite stiff without any boosting despite having very high mechanical advantage, but they're on a very beefy frameset, originally an early-80s MTB.
Hmmm....looks like a crappy fork then. Too much flex.

CR720s are OK. I stopped messing around with mid range cantis a long time ago though. Pretty much it is Avid Shorty Ultimates or it's not worth it. Couple these with Yokozuna Reaction brake housings and you can rip a fork or a brake bridge off any frame and actually stop well.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 01:10 PM
  #380  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times in 6,054 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
This is the thing that always makes me roll my eyes back when people start with "Disc brakes are stronger". Uh... the largest rotor you can have is a rim. "Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world."

... The contact patch is the weak link
People aren't riding 28s and 32s with rim brakes, but those are pretty common with discs, and the bigger tires make a bigger contact patch. Disc wins again!
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 01:12 PM
  #381  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times in 998 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
373g is over 3/4 of a pound.

People used to argue with me that they HAD to use alloy nipples because an extra 18g on a wheelset was going to be way too much.
but some people argue that they add 1-2 pounds.

I upgraded my wheelset/tires, and lost that weight.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 01:13 PM
  #382  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
Disc brakes can be beautiful, sleek and elegant if done properly.

__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 02-26-20, 01:16 PM
  #383  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
People aren't riding 28s and 32s with rim brakes, but those are pretty common with discs, and the bigger tires make a bigger contact patch. Disc wins again!
*sideeye* we ride 28's and 32's with rim brakes all the time... Remember canti's are rim brakes. Around here the cross scene is so bike we have all had our "gravel" bikes for over a decade now and many are still knocking around cantis...
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 02-26-20, 01:18 PM
  #384  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yes, the rim is the largest rotor you can have, but it has to work as a braking surface while fulfilling its other functions. I think the biggest potential benefit of disc brakes is the freedom to design rims without the constraints of having to accommodate brake tracks. You could optimize rims and brakes for their respective roles, without compromise.
You realize I was able to introduce a new disc specific cyclocross rim this last season, right? I know about what rim brakes do to carbon already and the nice things that having disc brakes allow you to do with rim shape.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 02:08 PM
  #385  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 3,724

Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1759 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
I finally went up Sheridan into Wisconsin last year for the first time in many years. Worst ride of the season. Constant close calls. I thought for sure I was eventually going to be hit or shot.
The 15 miles between Northwestern and Ft. Sheridan is one of my favorite stretches of road in Chicago. I'll see a couple-hundred riders on a nice Saturday morning in the summer. North of Great Lakes sucks.
kingston is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 02:12 PM
  #386  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston
The 15 miles between Northwestern and Ft. Sheridan is one of my favorite stretches of road in Chicago. I'll see a couple-hundred riders on a nice Saturday morning in the summer. North of Great Lakes sucks.
Yeah and right at Great lakes is when I cut in- heading north. I was in Lake Bluff for the race that day and decided to take a ride for myself. Used the North Shore Century route as I had ridden that a decade before and remembered it being fine.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 02:56 PM
  #387  
David in Maine
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
People aren't riding 28s and 32s with rim brakes, but those are pretty common with discs, and the bigger tires make a bigger contact patch. Disc wins again!
My new Seven RedSky with Grand Cru mid-reach calipers. Currently running 28c but room for 35c. Brakes feel great--running compressionless housing. I will admit I haven't ridden down hill in the rain yet. No huge descents around here unless I head to the White Mountains. I will try that this summer and report back. Hope I don't die!!

David in Maine is offline  
Likes For David in Maine:
Old 02-26-20, 03:04 PM
  #388  
bykemike 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: st augustine fl
Posts: 1,003

Bikes: 2017 BMC Roadmachine 01 Enve wheels, Sram red etap,Cinelli Vigorelli single speed, 2009 Cannondale Capo, 2016 trek Domane 6.9, disc and Di2, 2016 Scott Scale 710, 27.5 plus tires and boost rims

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 81 Posts
I just flushed my Shimano discs . I just bought this bike...a 2016 6.9 Domane and it is a little under maintained so I figured flushing is good. It turns out flushing was really needed.

Picture ! is now but picture 2 is what was in there...it was about time I would say.


__________________
"ready to navigate"
bykemike is offline  
Likes For bykemike:
Old 02-26-20, 03:26 PM
  #389  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
*sideeye* we ride 28's and 32's with rim brakes all the time... Remember canti's are rim brakes. Around here the cross scene is so bike we have all had our "gravel" bikes for over a decade now and many are still knocking around cantis...
Cantis 4 life!
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 02-26-20, 03:44 PM
  #390  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,764
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1975 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 173 Posts
Originally Posted by bykemike
I just flushed my Shimano discs . I just bought this bike...a 2016 6.9 Domane and it is a little under maintained so I figured flushing is good. It turns out flushing was really needed.

Picture ! is now but picture 2 is what was in there...it was about time I would say.


FWIW some shimano factory kits came with yellow mineral oil without the red dye, tripped me up on one of my new bikes when I had to shorten the line on a brand new system. The discoloring is probably from dirt getting past the piston seals. If you clean them off regularly before pushing the pistons back in when changing pads etc it stays cleaner for a lot longer
redlude97 is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 05:19 PM
  #391  
Johnk3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 142

Bikes: Simoncini, Wilier (2), Cinelli Supercorsa, Cicli Barco XCr

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
Disc brakes can be beautiful, sleek and elegant if done properly.

Sure. You are kidding right?

Try this instead:
Johnk3 is offline  
Likes For Johnk3:
Old 02-26-20, 07:20 PM
  #392  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,297 Times in 2,947 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
You realize I was able to introduce a new disc specific cyclocross rim this last season, right? I know about what rim brakes do to carbon already and the nice things that having disc brakes allow you to do with rim shape.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with your product line. I hope your cross wheels have been well received.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 08:37 PM
  #393  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup
this is an example of how not to do it, right?
Originally Posted by Johnk3
Sure. You are kidding right?
Sometimes the camera has a difficult time capturing the true elegance of those brakes.
tyrion is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 09:19 PM
  #394  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times in 998 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
Sometimes the camera has a difficult time capturing the true elegance of those brakes.
I don't think discs will ever look elegant like this.



but at least they can look sleek.

Last edited by noodle soup; 02-26-20 at 09:33 PM.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 02-26-20, 10:00 PM
  #395  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,231
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1335 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
373g is over 3/4 of a pound.

People used to argue with me that they HAD to use alloy nipples because an extra 18g on a wheelset was going to be way too much.
Not because they were enlightened, but because weight weenie marketing told them 1/2 oz is significant, when its really not.
Racing Dan is offline  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 02-26-20, 10:20 PM
  #396  
Johnk3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 142

Bikes: Simoncini, Wilier (2), Cinelli Supercorsa, Cicli Barco XCr

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
Sometimes the camera has a difficult time capturing the true elegance of those brakes.
You are a master of the understatement.
Johnk3 is offline  
Likes For Johnk3:
Old 02-27-20, 08:33 AM
  #397  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times in 998 Posts
Originally Posted by edscott.
Here's a picture of the rear brake, where you can see the tight clearance. If you don't believe that it won't fit a 25 mm, well...


Pro tip- braking will improve significantly if you install a brake cable..
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 02-27-20, 09:39 AM
  #398  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,799

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times in 723 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup
I don't think discs will ever look elegant like this.


There are a lot of elegant and sleek road brakes out there, those aren't one of them, the term chunky comes to mind. I've got some old modolos that would fit the definition better IMHO.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
People aren't riding 28s and 32s with rim brakes, but those are pretty common with discs, and the bigger tires make a bigger contact patch. Disc wins again!
It's easy to run those on a number of road calipers, the first season I decided to try cross I some green vittoria 32s on my road bike of the time and ran with ultegra calipers. Did fine the first 3 races till the wet season really hit though the mud clogged the frame just as quickly as the calipers. If the frame went slightly out of true the rim and tire still had no problem clearing the brakes but the frame was the limiting factor. Disc is really allowing for the wider rims to run bigger tires to greater advantage without having to mess with the brake geometry of Vs or Cantis which could have pad clearance/leverage issues with a wider rim.

Originally Posted by Psimet2001
373g is over 3/4 of a pound.

People used to argue with me that they HAD to use alloy nipples because an extra 18g on a wheelset was going to be way too much.
Alloy is all about the color, weight is just the bonus. I can remember people worrying about the weight and being one of those people. Now I build all my/my families' wheels with nipples from wheel fanatyk since I really like adding the colors while the spline are a lot easier to get to tension with no effort. Something I liked when I learned to build in the late 90s and spline was first available.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 02-27-20, 09:57 AM
  #399  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times in 998 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
There are a lot of elegant and sleek road brakes out there, those aren't one of them.
Incorrect.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 02-27-20, 10:27 AM
  #400  
J Palmer Cass
Member
 
J Palmer Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Wheaton Illinois
Posts: 27

Bikes: ICE Adventure, TSDZ2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston
The 15 miles between Northwestern and Ft. Sheridan is one of my favorite stretches of road in Chicago. I'll see a couple-hundred riders on a nice Saturday morning in the summer. North of Great Lakes sucks.
That's not in Chicago.

I liked to stay south of 18th St.
J Palmer Cass is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.