HTupolev

Racing tires used for dry pavement in motorsports are usually fully slick if the tire molds weren't designed with road-legal tread requirements in mind.

Bah Humbug

WhyFi

It was a joke.

Shuffleman

firebird854

I run Gatorskin Hardshells for training and Turbo Cottons (in 24mm) with latex tubes for racing/very fast group rides. There is quite a difference between the two setups, my research puts it in the 25 watt range.

I recommend taking a look at this calculator to get a good idea of rolling resistance, wear resistance, etc. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews

smashndash

All right just installed my 25/28 p zeros. Looking forward to ripping down the nearest mountain this weekend. If I don't follow up, you can assume I'm dead/maimed. I hope I'm not expecting too much from these tires.

lyrictenor1

I'm surprised thst no one has yet mentioned the Vittoria Corsa G+, especially in the context of road feel. After tossing too many GP4000sii tires in the trash due to sidewall cuts, I went with the Corsa G+ and noticed how supple they were, even at 115 PSI. The GP4000sii were fast in a straight line, but felt dead as far as road feel. Also, I suffered no more flats on the Corsa G+ compared to the GP4k, and had no sidewall cuts (I've been through 3 sets of the Corsa G+).

Teamprovicycle

I dont like gator skins at all . for me all they did was pick up glass and get cuts . at retail they are cheaper , but online are bout the same price as gp4ks2 . i honestly think they only really offer more side wall protection vs gp4ks2 . gator skin hardshells are really good , they are not slower they just require more watts . as for grip i use 32mm versions so i never noticed a lack in grip .

At this point if you are running clinchers for flat protection just switch to tubeless road and you will have speed and flat protection without more drag .

I personly just roll with the gp4ks2 for commute i get the same amount of flats if not less . less glass less cuts but the side walls usualy wear out before the treads do

smashndash

OK. Put about 100 miles and 8000+ feet of climbing (and descending) this weekend on the P zeros. Here are my thoughts:

One ride was a flat, medium pace group ride. I usually get dropped on the flats but this time I ended up closing a lot of gaps and even taking a couple pulls. The biggest difference for me was how the tire felt when sprinting. Makes the Gators feel like a garden hose. I got my first Strava trophy and it was a flat sprint, which is definitely not my specialty. In terms of comfort, I felt that all vibrations/hits were just a little more damped. I could still feel them but they weren't as jarring or sharp. I have yet to experiment with pressures but I'm running 75psi in the 28 rear on a 17mm rim with 135 + 21 lbs of load. I'm considering going a bit higher. Also I don't want to exaggerate how fast these tires are. I've been getting faster/fitter which may explain most of the difference but these tires made me feel better about putting down hard torque on the flats.

The second ride was a lot of climbing and technical descending. The first thing I noticed was that I wasn't getting "thrown around" as much at speed. The bike felt more planted which made me feel a lot better entering corners. Unfortunately I was actually very slightly slower on the technical descent this time around. But when I set that time on the gatorskins I was sprinting my butt off out of each corner whereas today I just enjoyed myself and focused on leaning. I definitely found it easier to hold my line at speed and lay off the brakes.

I also flatted for the first time... Ever I think. I've pinch flatted before from improper inflation but since I switched to gatorskins I have flatted 0 times in 2000+ miles. These flatted in less than 100 miles. Not a good sign. I knew that I'd be sacrificing the bulletproofness of the Gators but I REALLY hope that this was a fluke (it didn't seem like it) and I won't be flatting every week. If so then I will not be able to recommend these tires to anyone who lives in an area with any sort of debris on the roads. I'll update this if I get too many more flats. I was feeling really good about this purchase until that flat . Wish me luck.

WhyFi

Are you talking about total load of 156 lbs or is that just what you've calculated for the rear tire? If that's a total, you certainly don't need to up the pressure; if anything, I'd do the opposite.

smashndash

Huh. That's total load. So rear would be 55% of that or whatever. I ran 85psi in my 25mm gator but these Pirellis are so supple I assumed I would need more pressure for the same level of "support". But I'll try to go lower as well.

smashndash

Well. Bad news. I flatted again during a ~10 mile spin. That's 2 flats in 110 miles. At that rate it is plausible (or even likely on the 70-80 mile rides that I have planned) that I could flat twice in a ride. This is unacceptable for me. I love the grip. I love the feel, especially when sprinting. I am definitely faster on these than my Gators. But I have to say, if you live anywhere in California that has thorns and other crap in the bike lanes, then skip these. To me, the fact that Pirelli doesn't offer a tubeless version of the P Zeros means they are DOA. My wheels are tubeless ready too, and I would definitely have been willing to pay extra to go for a tubeless version.

So now I have a $100 pair of unusable tires. What can I do to salvage them? a) sell them for pennies on the dollar (who is going to buy a mismatched pair?) b) put some sort of sealant in the tubes (I've heard orange seal is good. How good is stans?) c) *shudders* put in a tire liner and throw away the whole feel/speed thing and retain only the grip (which to be fair, was my primary reason to get these).

I really like option b - put sealant in the tubes. I know it means I'll eventually have to toss (or maybe wash the insides of???) the tube but I'm really in love with how these tires handle and would like to keep that intact and definitely don't mind having to stop and pump up my tires a bit if I hit something. I just don't want to have to swap out/patch the tube.

EDIT: and no the second flat was not because of something stuck in there from last time. I pulled out a juicy goathead from the shoulder of the rear tire.

Edit: option d: ghetto tubeless? How does that work and how likely is it to kill me? Ignore that

dunrobin

I just setup my main bike with schwalbe one pro evolution tubeless. I like them. I previously had vittoria corsa 28s and it was a nice comfortable plush ride...but the pro ones are noticeable quicker..geared up a sprocket on usual route. They stick like glue on dry. I'm sure durability will be less than the Vittorias.

Colnago Mixte

I'm in California too, in one of the worst goathead areas of the state. I gave up on performance after my GP4000's flatted during or after 8-10 rides in a row.

Rather reluctantly, I run these now. They will resist goatheads on dirt roads and along railroad tracks. Many miles in the dirt, zero flats, and one thorn stuck to the side of the tire that I pulled out, but did not penetrate the really tough 5 mm thick tread on these.

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ave-found.html

Yeah, they're heavy, but anything beats getting flat after flat after flat. At some point a person needs to face the reality that these goatheads are here to stay. I save my good tires for days in the mountains.

smashndash

:cries: have you tried tubeless? I'm still young and starry-eyed. What about orange seal in the tubes? I've seen some good demo videos for that online. I just need to wear through the current set of tires so I don't have to write off $100.

GuitarBob

Yep, choosing tires is all about trade offs. I run Gatorskins on my commuter because they resist flats so well and last forever. They ride like bricks, though; awful.

On my road bike, I've been using Michelin Pro4 Endurance for years. They ride much, much better and resist punctures nearly as well, but not quite. They've been replaced with newer models, but some are still floating around, sometimes for as little as $25-30 a tire.

So far as tubeless, most agree that it works best for high-volume, low-pressure tires, such as on a mountain bike. It's more hit-and-miss at road-bike pressures. Although many have had good luck with them, I went through three Pro Ones in no time -- two were done in under 400 miles, as the sidewalls just shredded. They ride very well, but were nowhere near durable enough for where I ride. Switched to Hutchinson's which are much tougher, but also heavier and nowhere near as supple. They ride okay and, knock wood, no punctures within about 2,000 miles.

So whether you go tubed or tubeless, you need to decide where you fall out on the ride-quality versus puncture-resistance continuum. Good luck!

WhyFi

I haven't used OS in tubes, but it works nicely in tubeless tires. Might as well give it a whirl, as long as you have removable core tubes.

WhyFi

Not for nothing, but most of those people seem to be using Stan's.

GuitarBob

Good point. With tubeless you get a whole 'nuther thing to fool with, sealant! I've not tried Stan's, but have used the orange stuff and the green stuff (Slime Pro -- sure whish they sold an amateur version). Don't have enough experience with the ones I've tried to have a preference, though OS created these neat rubber balls inside the tires.

smashndash

What do people think about getting latex tubes specifically for the purpose of putting latex-based sealant inside? The performance benefit seems pretty great and according to this oldish slowtwitch test, the reliability in puncture sealing with latex tubes is miles ahead of that with butyl tubes.

​​​​​​https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_2_4155.html

Could this be what I need?

rubiksoval

I'd definitely go higher. 75 psi is too low. You probably pinch flatted.

I'm about 160 lbs and tried an entire summer at 90 psi and flatted 7 different times. In races. 100 psi and have flatted once in the last year and a half (rock).

WhyFi

For a 28mm? No way. I'm pushing 200 and running 30mm tires at 70r/65f.

smashndash

No. The first flat was in the front (25mm, 85 psi) and I looked at the hole. It was a prick, not a cut/snakebite as seen when pinches happen (which I've done plenty of times on a different bike).
The second flat, I already said that I pulled out the offending goathead thorn. 28mm on 17mm rims is *quite* a fat tire for a 135lb dude. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be better off higher than 75 for efficiency reasons, but I am nowhere close to pinch flat territory. I run my fixie at 40psi on 15mm rims and 25mm tires and have never pinch flatted.

rubiksoval

A prick is exactly what happens with a pinch flat. There are sometimes two, like a "snake bite". I've never once seen a cut due to a pinch flat. A cut would be more likely due to an improperly installed tire.

I wouldn't ever run anything even close to that low, but whatever.

surak

I pump up my rear 28mm gp4kiis about once a week or three to 85 psi, and they lose about 10-15 psi over time. Also 135lb and never pinch flatted the back. Have pinch flatted my front tire twice when I was running 23mm at under 90 psi. Now running 25mm Pro4e up front at 90 psi and let it go down to 80 without problems. No goatheads here.