"The weight of the touring bike is not that important..."
06-07-18, 08:11 AM
#26
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..."because it's going to be loaded with many more times its weight". According to this mantra, the weight of the touring bike is essentially irrelevant because its 11-14kg weight is going to be swamped by the 30-odd kilos loaded on it as luggage. But what about when the touring load (as in CC Touring) is actually a fraction, say, one half of the weight of the bike? Does the mantra still hold?
There also is the topic of where are you going? Rough roads and smooth pavement require different kinds of bikes, that is one reason why I have three touring bikes that range from a Titanium frame bike to a heavy duty steel frame bike.
06-07-18, 08:21 AM
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My methodology is to first look at what my goal is. Then, determine what the bare minimum gear is needed to derive enjoyment from meeting that goal safely. Then look at that gear and see how I can minimize that weight. Sometimes that is a quick fix by modification (cut half the handle off a toothbrush as a funny example). Sometimes it means saving up to buy a lighter version of the same product (ie. lighter tent or even bike). Never do I have some set abstract weight goal (like a ratio) in mind. Afterwards it may turn out that my weights fit such a pattern but that never informs my choices.
Tent pegs are interesting. My latest tent came with ten. I find I only really need one. The one that came is a heavy cheap steel peg. I could replace it with a lighter Al or Ti peg to save some weight or even a smaller fancier lighter one. I choose the light option. Why not the lightest option? Because I have found that those bend and fail too easy. The goal is weight but also functionality so weight itself is not the only determining factor. That's why, when choosing a loaded touring bike, people don't just buy the lightest bike available.
Tent pegs are interesting. My latest tent came with ten. I find I only really need one. The one that came is a heavy cheap steel peg. I could replace it with a lighter Al or Ti peg to save some weight or even a smaller fancier lighter one. I choose the light option. Why not the lightest option? Because I have found that those bend and fail too easy. The goal is weight but also functionality so weight itself is not the only determining factor. That's why, when choosing a loaded touring bike, people don't just buy the lightest bike available.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 06-07-18 at 08:29 AM.
06-07-18, 08:40 AM
#28
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Ok, but the question sort of answers itself.
I don't think such a mantra exists for touring but it is more a recognition that weight itself is not the most important or sole, consideration. Almost anyone who's done more than one tour knows weight matters.. to a degree. You do have to push that load around somehow. But the function of a loaded tour is rarely speed and is more likely enjoyment of the day to day experience so weight of gear needed for that enjoyment is biased by that function. For that kind of tour (loaded or expedition) you also chose a bike with a different set of criteria, primarily strength, reliability and hauling capacity, not speed; so the gear to weight ration doesn't matter as much. It doesn't matter (as much) because the goal is not speed over distance.
If you go lighter like CC touring or fast touring you change the function in two ways: Either the enjoyment comes via CC touring from easier riding by pushing less weight on a more efficient bike or via more distance quicker in the case of a fast tour. In both cases the criteria of the bike changes. It now becomes not about carrying weight but rolling easier/faster and so the ratio of gear to bike becomes more important as weight does effect those things. You don't buy a carbon fiber bike for its weight carrying capacity or even its robustness - you buy it because it is lighter and will be easier or faster to ride because it is lighter. If that is the primary goal adding extra gear weight works directly against it.
I've never heard of a 1/2 gear to bike weight ratio. Such arbitrary settings are almost meaningless IMO. For CC touring perhaps but longer term expedition? Plus it does not take into account the particular preferences of individuals and treats all like cookie cutter riders. One person may find value in taking a laptop, another a camera, some like to wear street clothes, others not etc... I know as a man my personal hygiene kit can be as little as a toothbrush (no paste). I shower and wash by using campground soaps when I find them and don't comb my hair. I also don't wear deoderant in bear country. For a woman it may be different, along with feminine products they may have longer hair needing a brush/shampoo or other such stuff. Why try to stuff ones personal choices into an arbitrary weight box?
I don't think such a mantra exists for touring but it is more a recognition that weight itself is not the most important or sole, consideration. Almost anyone who's done more than one tour knows weight matters.. to a degree. You do have to push that load around somehow. But the function of a loaded tour is rarely speed and is more likely enjoyment of the day to day experience so weight of gear needed for that enjoyment is biased by that function. For that kind of tour (loaded or expedition) you also chose a bike with a different set of criteria, primarily strength, reliability and hauling capacity, not speed; so the gear to weight ration doesn't matter as much. It doesn't matter (as much) because the goal is not speed over distance.
If you go lighter like CC touring or fast touring you change the function in two ways: Either the enjoyment comes via CC touring from easier riding by pushing less weight on a more efficient bike or via more distance quicker in the case of a fast tour. In both cases the criteria of the bike changes. It now becomes not about carrying weight but rolling easier/faster and so the ratio of gear to bike becomes more important as weight does effect those things. You don't buy a carbon fiber bike for its weight carrying capacity or even its robustness - you buy it because it is lighter and will be easier or faster to ride because it is lighter. If that is the primary goal adding extra gear weight works directly against it.
I've never heard of a 1/2 gear to bike weight ratio. Such arbitrary settings are almost meaningless IMO. For CC touring perhaps but longer term expedition? Plus it does not take into account the particular preferences of individuals and treats all like cookie cutter riders. One person may find value in taking a laptop, another a camera, some like to wear street clothes, others not etc... I know as a man my personal hygiene kit can be as little as a toothbrush (no paste). I shower and wash by using campground soaps when I find them and don't comb my hair. I also don't wear deoderant in bear country. For a woman it may be different, along with feminine products they may have longer hair needing a brush/shampoo or other such stuff. Why try to stuff ones personal choices into an arbitrary weight box?
06-07-18, 08:58 AM
#29
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I like my bike to be no more than 14% of my body weight. Less is more.
06-07-18, 10:08 AM
#32
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I've never even contemplated the ratio of gear weight to bike weight and I'm not sure why anyone would care to be honest. I do think about overall weight, but like others have said eloquently the appropriate weight will very much depend on the type and intent of tour.
I do frequent getaways to the BC Gulf Islands, and I choose to carry a very heavy load because on those tours my distances are short and I want my creature comforts.
On the other hand, I've toured much lighter than that when appropriate. But again, I've never given the gear/bike ratio a single thought, and I doubt I will in the future.
I do frequent getaways to the BC Gulf Islands, and I choose to carry a very heavy load because on those tours my distances are short and I want my creature comforts.
On the other hand, I've toured much lighter than that when appropriate. But again, I've never given the gear/bike ratio a single thought, and I doubt I will in the future.
06-07-18, 05:28 PM
#33
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A numeric example fitting the OP's scenario:
eg. +5kg CC touring gear, 10kg bike, 90 kg engine = 105kg total weight
IMHO, +5% weight for all your CC touring gear should have a ~1.7% negative impact to your overall tour pace (5% / 3). Due to the mechanical advantage of wheels, extra weight has negligible impact while riding flats and downhills. Assuming stop>start acceleration is also negligible while touring, then extra weight really only impacts the uphill sections, and on average that's roughly about a third of your ride.
Backpacking, however, +5kg on a 10kg backpack will feel 50% heavier... every step, uphill/downhill/flat.
So +5kg gear is immaterial to a bicycle, yet very material to hiking.
IMHO, +5% weight for all your CC touring gear should have a ~1.7% negative impact to your overall tour pace (5% / 3). Due to the mechanical advantage of wheels, extra weight has negligible impact while riding flats and downhills. Assuming stop>start acceleration is also negligible while touring, then extra weight really only impacts the uphill sections, and on average that's roughly about a third of your ride.
Backpacking, however, +5kg on a 10kg backpack will feel 50% heavier... every step, uphill/downhill/flat.
So +5kg gear is immaterial to a bicycle, yet very material to hiking.
06-07-18, 06:24 PM
#34
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06-07-18, 08:22 PM
#35
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The last tour I did, I started out with around 18 tall boy beers (metric pints, because I was in a country that hasn't put a man on the moon, so 16.9oz/500ml), and finished with a couple still full. That is at least a 5kg difference, and I'd be hard pressed to honestly tell you pedaling the bike at the end was any easier than at the beginning despite losing that weight.
Sure, I can look at it logically and understand the physics of why it is theoretically easier, but from a noticeable, actionable level, there really was no difference.
06-07-18, 08:51 PM
#36
06-07-18, 09:03 PM
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My philosophy (for the past 40+ years) is that the weight of pack + gear is roughly the same between backpacking and cycle touring. Comfortable hiking with a 60 pound pack? You'll be equally comfortable touring on a 60 pound bike + gear. Backpacking, the pack weighs 4 pounds. So 56 pounds of tent, bag, clothes, food, water. stove etc. But cycling the "pack weighs 30+ pounds (bike + racks + bags + tools etc). So less than 30 pounds of tent + all the rest of that stuff. Here is where the bike weight makes a real difference. 2 pounds of the bike is two more pounds of gear.
The other place weight matters - when you spontaneously decide to change plans and do that long steep hill you aren't geared for (or you did plan on it but not the headwind you faced all morning to get to it. Tired and in too high a gear, believe me, every pound matters!
Ben.
The other place weight matters - when you spontaneously decide to change plans and do that long steep hill you aren't geared for (or you did plan on it but not the headwind you faced all morning to get to it. Tired and in too high a gear, believe me, every pound matters!
Ben.
06-07-18, 09:10 PM
#38
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I think these pages sum it up nicely - https://ridefar.info/bike/cycling-speed/weight/ and Bike weight and performance ? Dave McCraw.
In summary - weight make a difference, but much less than you might think.
In summary - weight make a difference, but much less than you might think.
