cudak888 

Might be possible to pull both the frame and fork into alignment, but until then, I'd categorize it as a very interesting wrecked bike - with potential.

-Kurt

gster

I made a promise to myself earlier this year to stop buying "stuff" and I've been quite good.
No bikes (I've got enough), no guitars (same) and have in fact sold off 4 bikes (including a very nice AMF Hercules) and 4 guitars...
I did treat myself to something nice yesterday....
a Dual 1219 turntable.

Top of the line in 1970
retail price then @ $190.00
= $1350.00 today.

nlerner

To celebrate the end of a very busy work week, I spent some time in the basement this afternoon stripping those two 1930s Raleighs I show above. I suffered only one serious wound in the process with a slipped wrench on a rusted nut (actually that was a couple of days ago), but otherwise pretty much have everything stripped. It seems both had a light spray of black paint on top of how they came from Raleigh, mostly peeling off now but, unfortunate, not revealing any decals underneath.

Here's the headbadge of the lady's frame, a bit different than later models:


And I discovered this partial decal on the men's frame top tube. Perhaps it reads "Tourist Super"? But that's not a model I find in the 1937 catalog. Instead, it seems to fit the details of the Sports C Tourist:



The drive-side chainstay has a slight bend to it, probably not enough to affect handling, but I'll still probably try to pull it out. Otherwise, next step is to clean the men's frame up as much as I can.

gster

It's good to have a project this time of year.

nlerner

I dug up this top tube decal from a '37 Sports Tourist that I owned previously; looks like a match to me!

photo 2.JPG

oldlugs

I had an almost identical bike about 40 years ago, I was in my late teens and using it to deliver newpapers, (I used that one on the day I want around to collect money). I bent the frame much the same way on mine. There was one road that led downhill to one customers driveway that was a very steep incline. What I would do was to go there last, I'd skip over it, go around the block, and then head down the hill, through the intersection at full speed and up the hill to his house. I did it every week like that until one day in early Feb. one year. It was a cloudy day with a bit of snow on the ground and a light drizzle that was turning to snow on a Saturday afternoon. The guy's driveway was a glazed looking asphalt, (it was shiny even when it was dry). The driveway was bordered all the way to the house walkway with a 3ft tall stone wall. I made my turn onto the street that led to his house, then got up a good head of steam and headed up the driveway. What I didn't count on was black ice on the curb. As I crossed the concrete bump into his driveway, my front tires slide sideways a little but I saved it, but now moving about 20 mph, I turned to correct my course and the bike went out from under me. It slid out on the left side, I actually went down pretty easy, but the bike was spinning counterclockwise on the left pedal. It spun ahead of me about 10ft, lightly bounced off the stone wall and slid front wheel first down the drive about 50ft back toward the street. It missed the open gate and hit the fence post, tire first.
I got up, thinking no big deal, no one saw that. But the front tire now overlapped the down tube and there were strong kinks in both the top and down tubes. Being a few miles from home, and not wanting to carry the thing, I found a firehydrant, took my bike lock cable and ran it through the back wheel across the back hub and around the fire plug, I then grabbed the front forks by each blade and pulled as hard as I could, it bent back surprisingly easy, at least at first. I kept pulling, sort of leaning my weight into it each with each pull. When it wouldn't go any more I figured I'd call it a day and go home. I rode the bike home and surprisingly other than a tight spot in the steering, it rode okay all things considered.
The next day I got more serious about making it better. I tried to pull the forks but the upper nut wouldn't come free, I could tell it was going to either break or strip, so I got all the balls back in place with some fresh grease and put it back the way it was. I got a heavy piece of angle iron with an eye bolt in the middle and placed it behind the forks with the wheel and fender off. I then took another piece of angle iron and put it lengthwise along the seat tube with a chain welded top and bottom. I ran the chains around an oak tree, and hooked a come-along to the front and cranked on it till the thing looked right again. The kinks in the frame took some tapping on with a light hammer as it bent back but it came back about 90% or so. Not wanting to push my luck, I left it alone, put the wheel and fender back on it and took it for a ride. It felt fine so I kept using it. About two years later I was riding it and it ground to a sudden stop as the front wheel locked up, the front axle had broken off just inside of the fixed cone, it broke on a sharp angle and the bearings got between the shoulder of the cone and the race locking up the wheel. I slapped a used wheel on it and kept using it. I ran it till I handed the route off to another kid, I gave him the bike with the route. he used it for a few months till he bought something better.
Considering what that thing went through, it had to be built like a tank. A good bit of my route was on stone roads, some of it was farms and dirt lanes, one driveway was a muddy trail through the woods, and a good bit of it was in the hilly part of town.
The bike was maintained as cheaply as I could, I couldn't afford any other way. I even remember welding washers and longer studs on brake pads to get a little bit more out of them. When it snowed, I had an old tire that I put screws and nuts through for ice traction, I wrapped the inside with duct tape and used thorn resistant tubes filled with tire sealer. The screws would sometimes rub the fenders or catch the edge of the back fender if you picked up a chunk of ice, thus the rear fender was a bit mangled too. Eventually it came off. I put a rack on the back to if I were to slide off the seat there was something between me and the studded rear tire.
I've kept an eye out for years for another Triumph in good condition but I've only run across two or three over the years, every one had a bent frame. The one I had was early 60's vintage, I seem to recall the rear hub was marked 4 64.

I did find myself a rather clean 23" frame 1961 Robin Hood about 20 years ago, but its not the same. My Triumph was originally a yard sale purchase for something like $5 back then. I think the only thing I did to it was replace one tire and patch both tubes. The Robin Hood was in the garage of a house I bought, buried in a pile of junk they told me was trash that they hadn't gotten around to hauling to the dump. When I saw the bike I told them to leave it, I'll deal with it. The bike needed almost nothing but a good clean and lube.
I had it sitting in the driveway a few weeks ago, I had everything pulled out of the garage searching for something.
Someone spotted it as they drove by and and wanted to know if I'd sell it. When I said it wasn't for sale. Right off the bat he offered me $400 for it, he looked it over real good, I even let him ride it a bit, but I just didn't want to sell it.
The guy left me a number in case I change my mind. My thought was that I'd have a tough time finding another one in that shape, and its not even close to the shape that Hercules on CL is in. But its 100% ready to ride so its staying unless I find something I like better.
If that Hercules was my size, it would already be mine I suppose but I need a taller frame. I also considered the idea of buying it for parts, the shiny wheels and other chrome bits would make my Robin Hood a much nicer ride. My front rim has a few fixed dents that aren't 100% and I've been watching for a perfect rim, or a pair of rims to build it a complete spare wheelset but have not found anything any better than what I've got that wasn't an arm and a leg. The last perfect wheelset that I saw on ebay was a few years ago and it went for $175 plus shipping just for the wheels. I somehow don't think I can find a better bike in equal condition for under $400, there's plenty of fixer uppers for $100 to $200, but nothing really well done or rebuilt. Most who flip bikes consider a few shots of oil here and there and maybe a set of brake pads a rebuild. Like a few others mentioned here I tear every bike I get down to the bare frame and do a complete overhaul whether I'm keeping it or not.

cudak888 

That looks about right. I don't think Raleigh made any distinction on the frame whether it was a Sports C Tourist or a Sports X Tourist. Near as I can figure it, these terms simply stood for cable or drum brakes, respectively.

...and of course it would have been too logical for Raleigh to call the latter the Sports "D" Tourist.

-Kurt

gster

Still Out There
Some reasonably priced 3 speeds

Raleigh 3 Speed comes with new tires @ $100.00

Dunelt Skyliner 3 Speed @ $150.00

Triumph 3 Speed @ $50.00
All of these are from the Kijiji Ontario listings.

Iron Horse

Good afternoon gents!
I have a "I need help" question I hope somebody can answer for me. My phone crapped out last month and among the things that it took from me were the pictures I had taken of this bike's cable routing and clamp location for the three speed and the clamp orientation for the front of the chain guard. I someone could post or send me pictures of these, I would gratefully appreciate it.
Thank you in advance!

Dante41

Wow, it's certainly been a long long while. After about 3 years I'm finally getting back into biking; I stopped because I wrecked an expensive bike in a crash (coupled with a long employment contract taking away my ability to ride)

I dragged my Raleigh Tourist out of the garage, got it tuned up, and took it for a short 2 mile ride. My knees were burning by the end of it but it felt good to be back in the saddle. The Tourist of course just glided down the pavement like the Cadillac it is! I just wish I had gotten the nerve to start biking again earlier.




It's funny how much of a parts bin special it is. The hub was made December 1974, the frame was made March 1977, the chain guard is from 1973-1976, and the fenders are from 1978 onward. I have no idea when it was actually made, ha! I know Raleigh was getting a bit ragged at the end for their older-model bikes. Maybe it was from the last year they offered the model, and just threw it together from the parts spares left over from their years of production

gster

Classic.

bluesteak 

I though I would post some photos of the progress so far, and ask a few questions. The dropped bars on the original bike were too cramped for me to ride with the short stem so I opted for regular 3 speed bars, until I find some combination of a stem, bars, and levers that will work. I took it out for a spin, but it was too cold to real give it a full trial.

The rims are Dunlop ea1 , there is no indication that they are “lightweight”. What model of bike could they be from? The front wheel is laced radially with 16 gauge spokes



What era is this lamp bracket from?

that are 60? Years old. Is it even safe to ride? The rear wheel has a 55AW, again what model bike could this be from?

Lastly I have been looking for an fm/fw hub on eBay. It seems like finding one that has the indicator is pretty much impossible.

Ballenxj

Very nice looking fit and finish. Is that by chance a 24 inch frame? It looks a bit taller than the usual large.

Dante41

It is, yeah!

The finish has one major blemish though, on the backstay. I fell over onto a curb and dented the tube, messing up the paint there too. Thankfully the Tourist still got thick steel so the integrity of the frame isn't impacted, but I've been meaning to get it repaired for years. Never found a black backstay in the right size, though.

cudak888 

Keep looking - I've seen them before. Those bright NOS rear stays for 22" frames on eBay - the ones from Greece - are not the only ones that have come to market in the past.

-Kurt

gster

I pulled an EA1 rim off a wrecked Lenton, same colour as yours. It was a 10 speed that I assume was from the late 60's/early 70's. Looks like your chainring has a stamped eye on it. 1961 or earlier.
A good looking project.

nlerner

I've definitely seen Dunlop EA1 steel rims that were not "special lightweight." I think they stuck them on a bunch of the downmarket "Raleighs" in the late 50s/early 60s.

Fwiw, I'm making progress on the '37 men's Sports Tourist I show some posts up above. It's getting built up with EA3 wheels with Sun CR-18 alloy rims, Honjo fluted alu fenders, a V-O chromed steel chainguard, and EA3 Panaracer Col de la vie tires. Pics in a couple of days once I'm done soaking parts in Evaporust!

clubman 

Yup. Lots of entry-level club-style bikes had them. I've got several rims, some built, some not. Even a stainless Endrick.
It's amazing how long those old Dunlop tyres last. When the tread starts to delaminate, get new ones.

markk900

I'll be interested in your thoughts on the Col de la Vie tires on the CR18 rims: I bought some CR18s to replace the original rims on the 49 Humber but they are noticeably narrower than the originals; so I mounted the tires on the original rims - those tires are a tad larger than most 590 tires and that's on a wider rim - it ended up quite tight under the fenders; I wonder how well they'll fit on the narrower CR18s.

nlerner

They measure 35.4mm on my dial calipers at around 40 psi:




I think they look reasonably proportional on this frame with Honjo 650b fenders:

2fat2fly

I've been sort of keeping an eye out for a decent winter project and found a mid 60's Robin Hood, several late 60's Hercules, one Raleigh Sports, and an early 70's Robin Hood that looks like it was taken off the show room floor yesterday.
The Raleigh is rough, mismatched fenders, wrong color fork, older rims, and the chrome bits look like they were cleaned of rust leaving lots of pitting and rough spots. It has been completely gone through with new tires and a new sprung saddle that looks the part.
The guy wants $200 firm

There's a mid 60's Robin Hood, same size frame, in black, with good rims, older but likely serviceable tires, the owner says he just repacked all the bearings a couple of years ago but its been sitting in the garage since. It rides and shifts like new but the paint is dull from age, the Wright saddle has a few cracks, and the decals are almost completely gone. There isn't many scratches, just dull paint. He's asking $500 and won't budge.

The first Hercules is a late 60's model, also marked AMF on the chain guard and seat tube. The paint is rough, lots of scratches but no rust, the fenders are straight but the paint is rubbed thin all over. The rims have some pitting from previous rust, the tires are new but look narrow, they say Kenda on the sides. The bike rides and shifts but the ride is hard, the narrower tires need to be inflated to 65psi to not let the rims hit the pavement on bumps. The guy is asking $250 but there may be room for negotiating. My first impression was that its nothing special, just an old neglected bike that he brought back from the dead.

The next Hercules is fairly clean, its got decent paint, but not perfect, the paint still shines a bit and will likely polish back up, the fenders are clean and shiny, and the rims are spotless. The tires say Raleigh Record and have a block tread but no reflector strip, my guess is they're likely original. They show no signs of dryrot through. The rear hub says 10 - 73. The seller wants $175 firm (He dropped down from $200).

The next Hercules is an AMF model, with AMF only on the seat tube, plus the fork blades and seat stays have reflector tape bands on them. The bike is 99% perfect appearance wise, the tires also say Raleigh Record on then as well as tiny CST logos. The tires are likely serviceable but show some cracking. The bike has likely never been apart for any sort of recent service. The stem and cranks have Raleigh logos on them but the headbadge is Hercules. The rear hub says 2-71. The seller is firm at $250.

The last Hercules is also an AMF model, the paint is near perfect, the saddle is missing some stitching on the sides, the tires are original, Dunlop branded and showing some age cracks, the rims are Sturmey Archer and near mint, the rear hub reads 11 - 70. Its got the same reflector tape as the last one on the frame. The seller said its just how he found it, but it looks great. He's asking $400.

I looked at probably a dozen others, some were a lot cheaper but most needed major repairs. Lots with missing fenders, dents in the frame, badly rusted rims, tires that were rotted beyond use or missing, and rust everywhere, and they still wanted over $100.

The way I see it, any bike I buy will need new tires and tubes, and from what I'm seeing that's going to run between $70 and $100.
Most if not all will need new brake pads, the originals seem to all be petrified and useless, so figure another $30 for a good set of Kool stop pads. Most I've seen need a saddle upgrade, from what I've seen a decent padded saddle that looks correct is around $50, or a new Brooks saddle for about $120 or so.
These expenses are static and I'll likely need to spend this no matter what I buy.
Going through the bearings won't cost me anything but time, and like a few others mentioned before, I'd also do that on any bike I buy, regardless of what the seller tells me was done.
The big question I suppose is how much is better paint and chrome worth?
I can find a cheap ride under $200 but it'll have major cosmetic issues, or I can spend a few hundred more and have perfect paint and end up with what is basically a new bike when I'm done.

I also considered stripping and repainting a rough one but where do I find original decals? All I see are self stick type decals or vinyl decals on fleabay. I'm guessing that the originals were all water slide type or paint?

How much of a taboo is it to strip and repaint one of these old bikes? I know with a lot of road bikes most don't want the factory paint so much as touched, let alone a complete redo. I know if I can find the right decals, I can certainly do a factory looking paint job, my concern would be ending up with something that's too perfect paint wise. Most of these I've seen don't have a lot of paint sheen, they appear dipped not sprayed from the factory.

I'm leaning toward the first Raleigh Sports, since its already a mismatch of parts, a repaint can't hurt its value none. The hard part may be finding perfect chrome bits, if not I'm looking at hundreds to clean and re-chrome all the original parts properly. My concern would be adding thickness to things like the stem or seat post in a re-chrome. Getting the right type of chrome and the right shine may also be tough. I've seen a few re-chrome jobs on some 50's era Schwinn bikes and it just never looks factory to me.

markk900

Thanks nlerner : I went and checked several of my bikes: with "regular cheapo" 590 tires I came in at 35mm, and on the humber with the Col de la Vie tires I measured 36.1mm. So my assumption that the narrower rim would bulge the tire more is obviously incorrect (or there is almost a mm of production variance in the tires, which seems a bit high). The original rims on the humber are good except for the braking surfaces which are awful; I may still lace the CR18s up though even with bad braking surfaces the Kool Stop Continental pads (the grey ones) work pretty well and the bike doesn't see a lot of miles.

Oh and I agree that on your build the tires look perfect! They look good on the humber too but I had to "adjust" the fenders a bit at the bottom bracket and lower leading edge of the front to prevent rubbing.

markk900

2fat2fly Not sure where you are located but I thought in my area prices were high! Those prices seem steep for the condition you describe.

Those Kenda's are the "regular cheapo" tires I describe above - they are plentiful in my area and cost around $12 each so they are good for economy builds. For saddles I did originally buy one new Brooks but have found even being in Canada I have been able to score a few really nice used Brooks online at a reasonable price (ie. between $75 and $100 CAD).... you just need to be patient.

As to decals: there are a number of excellent places if you want decals for the more common models, so don't let that stop you!

dweenk

2fat2fly Like markk900 said - where are you located? Those prices seem to be way out of bounds.

2fat2fly

I'm in New Jersey. A few shops I've stopped at told me 26x1 3/8" tires are obsolete and no longer available, one told me to go buy them on eBay, another told me he could order them, walked over to the computer and went on eBay to show me what was available. When I told him if I wanted to order them online, I'd do it myself. He got an attitude and told me the best thing to do is just buy a newer bike.

There's a lot of cheap bikes but they're beyond rough. I've only seen a few that were even ridable and very few that were in any sort of decent shape.
Most of my bikes in the past came from yard sales and flea markets but lately I've not seen a decent bike at any of those places. Yard sales are full of old clothes and glass, flea markets are mostly chinese junk and overpriced rust.
A good bit of the problem is the fact that so many bikes here end up near the saltwater, and rust is a major issue. Good chrome is rare, anything that's not rusted to some degree is rarer. I've junked a few over the years that rusted from the inside out.

The Kenda tires are too narrow, they're a fraction of the width of the original tires that came on older bikes. They may 'fit' but they're not right.
The Michelin tire is a good option but they only come in gumwall and are harder yet to find. When you do find them, they're expensive.
I can't even buy common size tires for $12.50 at Walmart these days. The cheapest tires they had there were regular 26" mountain bike tires for $19.96.
The bike shops are higher.

Judging by how many 26x1 3/8" bikes that I see for sale, they're not all that rare, there just aren't any in decent shape. I suppose the fact that most of them are pushing 40 or 50 years old or more.

I wouldn't be looking for another bike if I hadn't sold the one I had. Some guy stopped by a few months ago while I was mowing the lawn, he saw the 1972 Hercules I had so he stopped to see if it was for sale. When he offered me $200 to start, but I didn't want to sell it, he upped the offer to $350 and I let it go figuring I'd just go find another one but there's not much out there that don't need a ton of work. There's one about an hour and half away that I want to check out but it'll have to wait till the weekend.