Threadlock on a bottom bracket
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Threadlock on a bottom bracket
Does it make sense to have threadlock on a bottom bracket, even though it is torqued properly? I had noticed that my new Scott Aspect, already had severe crank stiffness and crunching noise.
It has the threaded Shimano MT-500 hollowtech. Bike shop I bought it from told me to bring it in, would be 1-2 weeks before they look at it and fix it for just a $20 part.
Well, fuel to drive the bike to shop (40 miles away) and then to pick it up would be about $16 alone. So I decided to just replace the bottom bracket with something a bit better the Shimano MT-800 threaded.
My question, is it normal to put threadlock on these bottom brackets? It really was tough getting this off even with breaker bar.
So much so, that look at what happened with my tool. Where the 1/2" to 3/8" adapter connects to the Park Tool:
Not sure if I'm going to be able to separate the two tools. Nor am I sure if Park Tools will warrant a replacement for the tool since it appears really weak for the metal to fatigue like this.
Should I be using a different bottom bracket tool?
It has the threaded Shimano MT-500 hollowtech. Bike shop I bought it from told me to bring it in, would be 1-2 weeks before they look at it and fix it for just a $20 part.
Well, fuel to drive the bike to shop (40 miles away) and then to pick it up would be about $16 alone. So I decided to just replace the bottom bracket with something a bit better the Shimano MT-800 threaded.
My question, is it normal to put threadlock on these bottom brackets? It really was tough getting this off even with breaker bar.
So much so, that look at what happened with my tool. Where the 1/2" to 3/8" adapter connects to the Park Tool:
Not sure if I'm going to be able to separate the two tools. Nor am I sure if Park Tools will warrant a replacement for the tool since it appears really weak for the metal to fatigue like this.
Should I be using a different bottom bracket tool?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767
Bikes: lots
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,489 Posts
Grease. Grease. Grease...unless you're an anti-seize kinda guy.
Did I mention use grease? There is absolutely no need for thread lock on a bottom bracket.
ETA: Put the bb tool in a vise and crank on the handle, it'll come apart. Buy the proper Shimano tool. Or Abbey. Or Unior.
Did I mention use grease? There is absolutely no need for thread lock on a bottom bracket.
ETA: Put the bb tool in a vise and crank on the handle, it'll come apart. Buy the proper Shimano tool. Or Abbey. Or Unior.
Likes For cxwrench:
#3
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,984
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26400 Post(s)
Liked 10,373 Times
in
7,202 Posts
.
...three are occasions where blue (low strength) Loctite makes sense on a BB.
Phil Wood used to recommend it as the final step in installation of theirs, after you get it dry fitted in place.
I have used it before on RH threaded BB cups that have a tendency to work loose, like French and Italian.
If you know you've installed something with blue Loctite, it's relatively easy to soften it with heat for removal.
I'm not certain I'd use it on what you've got there. Nor do I have the first clue about why your Park tool seems to be manufactured from some sort of aluminum alloy, from the look of it. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just don't have much familiarity with outboard bearing setups. I've installed them for other people, but don't have anything of my own that uses it.
...three are occasions where blue (low strength) Loctite makes sense on a BB.
Phil Wood used to recommend it as the final step in installation of theirs, after you get it dry fitted in place.
I have used it before on RH threaded BB cups that have a tendency to work loose, like French and Italian.
If you know you've installed something with blue Loctite, it's relatively easy to soften it with heat for removal.
I'm not certain I'd use it on what you've got there. Nor do I have the first clue about why your Park tool seems to be manufactured from some sort of aluminum alloy, from the look of it. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just don't have much familiarity with outboard bearing setups. I've installed them for other people, but don't have anything of my own that uses it.
Likes For 3alarmer:
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
.
...three are occasions where blue (low strength) Loctite makes sense on a BB.
Phil Wood used to recommend it as the final step in installation of theirs, after you get it dry fitted in place.
I have used it before on RH threaded BB cups that have a tendency to work loose, like French and Italian.
If you know you've installed something with blue Loctite, it's relatively easy to soften it with heat for removal.
I'm not certain I'd use it on what you've got there. Nor do I have the first clue about why your Park tool seems to be manufactured from some sort of aluminum alloy, from the look of it. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just don't have much familiarity with outboard bearing setups. I've installed them for other people, but don't have anything of my own that uses it.
...three are occasions where blue (low strength) Loctite makes sense on a BB.
Phil Wood used to recommend it as the final step in installation of theirs, after you get it dry fitted in place.
I have used it before on RH threaded BB cups that have a tendency to work loose, like French and Italian.
If you know you've installed something with blue Loctite, it's relatively easy to soften it with heat for removal.
I'm not certain I'd use it on what you've got there. Nor do I have the first clue about why your Park tool seems to be manufactured from some sort of aluminum alloy, from the look of it. I'm sure there's a good reason, I just don't have much familiarity with outboard bearing setups. I've installed them for other people, but don't have anything of my own that uses it.
I've submitted a request for warranty replacement on the Park Tool. I have to state, I'm a bit disappointed in Park Tools as of late. I've returned a bike pump, that was not working properly with pushing air through or the gauge. Leaking Grease pump, hearing from others the Park grease is too thin. Now this, going to start doing better research on the tools I buy.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Grease. Grease. Grease...unless you're an anti-seize kinda guy.
Did I mention use grease? There is absolutely no need for thread lock on a bottom bracket.
ETA: Put the bb tool in a vise and crank on the handle, it'll come apart. Buy the proper Shimano tool. Or Abbey. Or Unior.
Did I mention use grease? There is absolutely no need for thread lock on a bottom bracket.
ETA: Put the bb tool in a vise and crank on the handle, it'll come apart. Buy the proper Shimano tool. Or Abbey. Or Unior.
Unless, I find I have to continually torque it if it comes loose, then I will make the call. Hoping it won't.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times
in
723 Posts
I use Tef-Gel® for all dissimilar metal joints, grease on steel-steel. Some bottom brackets come with a Nylok®-type patch, I use Tef-Gel® in addition.
Unless specifically designed and specified to use a threadlocker, its use should not be needed in a properly-designed and -torqued, undamaged joint. I feel that it is often used as a Band-Aid®.
Unless specifically designed and specified to use a threadlocker, its use should not be needed in a properly-designed and -torqued, undamaged joint. I feel that it is often used as a Band-Aid®.
Likes For dsbrantjr:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,666
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 836 Post(s)
Liked 1,060 Times
in
744 Posts
Contact Park as they are usually very good with customer support. An aluminum tool has some advantages such as being less likely to chew up the notches on a BB but it's not designed to handle a BB installed with high strength Red Loctite. Red Loctite usually needs torch level heat to remove and has no business being used on a bike. Med or Low strength thread locker is OK to use but I also think grease is better due to the fact that it's so much easier to clean off the threads when cleaning your BB. Some aluminum shells are relatively soft compared to steel and threads can get damaged trying to screw in a BB that has a bunch of threadlocker buildup on it and the shell. If all the threads are OK and the BB is torqued on properly there should be no need for threadlock.
Likes For Crankycrank:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,848
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 742 Times
in
422 Posts
Phil Wood BBs cups actually come with blue threadlocker. Red threadlocker is a no-no. IMHO... folks that ride in wet areas, or are riding a 'wet-bike', and might do a rebuild every year should use grease. I'm down in semi-arid climate... and I use blue thread locker.
Last edited by trailangel; 03-14-21 at 12:16 PM.
Likes For trailangel:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,977
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1638 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
495 Posts
Thanks, my son and I had been using a blow drier to heat up the area, but it wasn't the blue Loctite, it was the red threadlock the manufacturer had put on and wow that was tough to get off. Heating up the area didn't seem to help.
I've submitted a request for warranty replacement on the Park Tool. I have to state, I'm a bit disappointed in Park Tools as of late. I've returned a bike pump, that was not working properly with pushing air through or the gauge. Leaking Grease pump, hearing from others the Park grease is too thin. Now this, going to start doing better research on the tools I buy.
I've submitted a request for warranty replacement on the Park Tool. I have to state, I'm a bit disappointed in Park Tools as of late. I've returned a bike pump, that was not working properly with pushing air through or the gauge. Leaking Grease pump, hearing from others the Park grease is too thin. Now this, going to start doing better research on the tools I buy.
Support the Park tool with a deep well socket that the adapter will fit into, use a drift and hammer on the adapter to push it out of the Park tool.
__________________
nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Last edited by 02Giant; 03-14-21 at 10:04 PM.
Likes For 02Giant:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
It seems very strange that the OEM bike assembler would use red locktite. Really crazy. I can see a home mechanic without good knowledge or experience might make that mistake, but not a professional commercial operation.
Likes For Camilo:
#11
Senior Member
I always use grease on the BB. I only used threadlock on a bike whose BB kept getting loose after a couple of rides. I still don't know why it got loose, but it fixed it.
Likes For Amt0571:
Likes For commo_soulja:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,895
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2601 Post(s)
Liked 1,925 Times
in
1,208 Posts
If you're installing something like a cartridge BB that'll last years, and you don't pull it out annually (and why should you, it ain't broke?), grease can dissipate and leave you with a rusted-in BB. Try Teflon plumber's tape instead; it lubricates the threads quite well, thank you, and doesn't move after the bottom bracket has been installed.
Likes For pdlamb:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times
in
518 Posts
Whatever the manufacturer put on the threads, I guarantee it was not red Loctite. Maybe some other sort of red substance - anti seize or red grease, but red Loctite is meant to be permanent except for removal with high heat.
Bottom bracket threads are often seized in place because insufficient grease or anti-seize is used on assembly. I have also seen more than one cross-threaded BB cup straight from the factory, and these are a real pain to remove. I suspect they use pneumatic tools for installation, and if the threads aren't started carefully by hand the tool can drive the cup all the way in while mangling the threads.
Bottom bracket threads are often seized in place because insufficient grease or anti-seize is used on assembly. I have also seen more than one cross-threaded BB cup straight from the factory, and these are a real pain to remove. I suspect they use pneumatic tools for installation, and if the threads aren't started carefully by hand the tool can drive the cup all the way in while mangling the threads.
#15
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked 2,537 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Cripes, BBs can be so hard to budge as it is I can’t imagine ever using locktite.
I always use grease.
I always use grease.
Likes For Kapusta:
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Thanks! I did not know that about the Red Loctite and explains why heat from a hair dryer wasn't working.
Thanks for the tip on removing the adapter. Will work on that later today.
Thanks for the tip on removing the adapter. Will work on that later today.
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Whatever the manufacturer put on the threads, I guarantee it was not red Loctite. Maybe some other sort of red substance - anti seize or red grease, but red Loctite is meant to be permanent except for removal with high heat.
Bottom bracket threads are often seized in place because insufficient grease or anti-seize is used on assembly. I have also seen more than one cross-threaded BB cup straight from the factory, and these are a real pain to remove. I suspect they use pneumatic tools for installation, and if the threads aren't started carefully by hand the tool can drive the cup all the way in while mangling the threads.
Bottom bracket threads are often seized in place because insufficient grease or anti-seize is used on assembly. I have also seen more than one cross-threaded BB cup straight from the factory, and these are a real pain to remove. I suspect they use pneumatic tools for installation, and if the threads aren't started carefully by hand the tool can drive the cup all the way in while mangling the threads.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,666
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 836 Post(s)
Liked 1,060 Times
in
744 Posts
Agreed. You never know who might have worked on it from the factory to the buyer though but still pretty unlikely. There are also threadlocks that are applied and allowed to dry before installation (can't think of the name for them at the moment) and have more of a rubbery, chalky texture and may be red in color but not high strength. In any case, it's removed so just clean up the BB shell threads and install the new BB. This should have been a warranty fix but as the OP noted, it cost as much to take it to the shop plus time wasted but still better to protect yourself in case there is something else going on causing a rough BB that the shop can now say it was the OP's fault since it has been worked on. Hopefully it all works properly now.
Likes For Crankycrank:
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times
in
518 Posts
travbikeman Just because it is reddish in colour and seemed to be locked tight, does not mean it is 'Red Loctite' - more likely some sort of anti-seize, or maybe just some sort of substance to take up any slack in the threads. Even with a long breaker bar, you're not going to be able to move1.37" threads with actual red Loctite on them.
Modern threaded bottom brackets don't need Loctite - the direction of the threads ensure that the cups are self tightening under normal circumstances.
Modern threaded bottom brackets don't need Loctite - the direction of the threads ensure that the cups are self tightening under normal circumstances.
Likes For ClydeClydeson:
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Thanks All!
I've already installed the Shimano MT800 after cleaning up the BB shell threads and torqued it to 35nm.
I agree ClydeClydeson, I had assumed it not knowing the difference. I know now, Thanks!
I've already installed the Shimano MT800 after cleaning up the BB shell threads and torqued it to 35nm.
I agree ClydeClydeson, I had assumed it not knowing the difference. I know now, Thanks!
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times
in
22 Posts
I have always used Anti-seize on BB threads, and never had an issue of loosening or trouble unscrewing, assuming it has been tightened properly.
#22
Mostly harmless ™
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,430
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times
in
130 Posts
Italian standard BB shells use the right handed thread, for both the left, and the right BB cup. The result of that is that the right hand side cup has a tendency to get unscrewed (spindle rolls the bearing balls, that push the right hand side BB cup anti-clockwise).
Those took some extra torque when tightening, and even then might start getting loose. Thread locker makes sense with such BBs.
Most modern bikes have the "British" standard BBs - i.e. the right hand side cup is screwed in anti-clockwise. If you tighten them to a decent torque, they are highly unlikely to get unscrewed. Anti seize is what I use on those, to make removal easier. But I've had no problems with them unscrewing.
Those took some extra torque when tightening, and even then might start getting loose. Thread locker makes sense with such BBs.
Most modern bikes have the "British" standard BBs - i.e. the right hand side cup is screwed in anti-clockwise. If you tighten them to a decent torque, they are highly unlikely to get unscrewed. Anti seize is what I use on those, to make removal easier. But I've had no problems with them unscrewing.
#23
Senior Member
Thanks, my son and I had been using a blow drier to heat up the area, but it wasn't the blue Loctite, it was the red threadlock the manufacturer had put on and wow that was tough to get off. Heating up the area didn't seem to help.
I've submitted a request for warranty replacement on the Park Tool. I have to state, I'm a bit disappointed in Park Tools as of late. I've returned a bike pump, that was not working properly with pushing air through or the gauge. Leaking Grease pump, hearing from others the Park grease is too thin. Now this, going to start doing better research on the tools I buy.
I've submitted a request for warranty replacement on the Park Tool. I have to state, I'm a bit disappointed in Park Tools as of late. I've returned a bike pump, that was not working properly with pushing air through or the gauge. Leaking Grease pump, hearing from others the Park grease is too thin. Now this, going to start doing better research on the tools I buy.
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Color of threadlocker has nothing to do with its strength. Yes, Henkel color code some of their threadlockers. But even they have many products that are red, with a pretty wide range of strength, and they're not the only game in threadlocking. So, just because it's red, don't assume it's high strength. There are factory applied threadlockers (the sort the factory puts on a bolt, but the end user installs the bolt) that are red that are very strong, as well as ones that are not.
I agree, I had assumed it not knowing the difference. I know now with what everyone has posted, Thanks!
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Martinsburg WV Area
Posts: 1,704
Bikes: State 4130 Custom, Giant Trance 29
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times
in
123 Posts
Received the warranty claim back from Park Tools. They are sending me a replacement tool.
BUT, they did warn this is considered a wear and tear item, especially when dealing with seized bottom brackets which even they stated this tool is not made for.
So they will not always warrant this.
Happy they did this time though and will only use the tool for my centerlock brake rotors for the time being.
BUT, they did warn this is considered a wear and tear item, especially when dealing with seized bottom brackets which even they stated this tool is not made for.
So they will not always warrant this.
Happy they did this time though and will only use the tool for my centerlock brake rotors for the time being.