Newspaperguy

Housing prices have been increasing far faster than wages. I don't have figures from 1964 but when I moved to the Okanagan in 1994, the average house price was less than $170,000, with some houses available for around $100,000. Today in the same community, the average house price is more than $400,000. There are just three houses for sale for less than $300,000. At least one is in terrible condition and probably cannot be maintained. Wages here have increased a little, but they haven't begun to keep track with the housing costs.

Something similar seems to have happened with vehicle costs over the same period of time. Prices of new and used cars have been increasing faster than wages have been increasing. The same holds true of food prices.

elfich

As far as I know, starting in 1920 or so, house prices stayed unchanged in comparisson to inflation. Only in the last 10 years have housing prices gone completely off the rocker with 10% gains every year for ten years straight.

https://www2.standardandpoors.com/por...0,0,0,0,0.html

jdaniel

I don't know about all of you but 3.60 cents were enough for me and my wife. We just converted last week and we had never heard of LCF or anything of the nature. We just saw the price and said, screw this, let's buy a bike. So we did. She commutes to work on a bike and I run all of my errands on a bike. The farthest we go is 4 miles to the local theater and if we want to go to downtown Dallas, we just hop on the Dart line.

I stopped reading through these threads as many people kept saying that we're too stupid or are too held up on what we are comfortable with. I find that offensive and inane. I'm not stupid. I got tired of putting 60 dollars into the tank of my non-gas guzzling, non-SUV car every week. Everything I need is around me, so why drive? Hell, I even live in suburban sprawl (yay Plano, TX) and I can do it.

I'll keep reading through the LCF threads, but I think I'll stick to the Commuter and Utility threads. This place seems chock full of a lot of bitter people. I'll live Car Free, not for the environment, politics, ideals, or to be a good example. I'll live Car Free for myself. Everyone else can do as they please.

breadgeek

If it takes higher energy costs to get people to reduce demand, great; maybe it will coax people into making different decisions, like how far they live from work, what transportation they use, which produce they buy, in which season, and how far the food was shipped.

The essential problem is that we got used to having an economy premised upon artificially inexpensive energy & resources, and now we are having a hard time breaking the habit; there is the expected denial, belittling of others, and scapegoating, but withdrawal is always like that. This trait has been with us for a long time. It will take a long time to get rid of it, too.

''Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue, but it cannot be the basis of a sound energy policy.''
-- R. Cheney, July, 2001

Which makes me want to make a choice about our leaders, but it is not pretty...as I agree with the sentiment that:

"I sometimes wonder whether world leaders are smart people who are putting us on, or embeciles who really mean it."
-- S. Clemens, about a 110 years ago

Nightshade

Folk's who frequent this forum are not bitter they are , for the most part, very frustrated
that it took (takes) super high fuels prices to wake people up to a better, oil lite, way
to travel. People just like you who had enough at $3.60 a gallon.

The fact that it took a 2x4 upside the wallet to wake you up means that you are not alone
by any means. There are millions still who are detemined to use a car until they "pry it
from my cold dead fingers" before they will either walk, ride a bike, or take mass transit.
America will suffer because of this attitude and more soldiers will die ,or be mamied, so
that Joe Average Citizen can drive a damn car whenever they want to.

But the politcians who need to fund the changes are the worst hold outs of all.

ericy

I think most in the general public don't see a good reason why giving up their cars is a good thing though. Yeah, the gas prices thing is causing people to consider it out of economic necessity. Most people don't know about peak oil, and they are waiting for someone to come up with a carbon neutral way to run a car so they can continue on with life more or less the same way it has been in the past.

barba

Gas is cheap. $4 would be cheap.

It is more expensive than we are accustomed to (that will change), but that doesn't really change the fact that it is still pretty affordable here.

Nightshade

Yes, I know. 95% of the public is still lost in never never land.

dynodonn 

At $4.10 a gallon for regular, I don't see a significant drop in vehicles during regular commute times, but I see a considerable drop in cars after hours.I do see a lot less of diesel powered pickups and SUVs on the road as well, especially with diesel going for $4.50 a gallon.

noisebeam

A news story about bus rider ship increasing due to fuel costs, but also improvements in system.
Main reason I post it on this forum as it includes a paragraph about living car free in a metro area so often said to be on the far extreme of car dependent. Nice to see little things like that in the news.
https://www.azcentral.com/community/t...501inside.html

"Longtime Tempe resident [name deleted] says he considers public transit so good that he no longer owns a car.

"I have a bicycle and I ride the buses, and that's all I need," [he] said. "I love it that Tempe has such a good bus system. I believe we all have to go green, and buses help a lot with that." "

Al

Nightshade

Gas prices are about get a whole lot worse..........

https://www.alternet.org/story/84184/

mattsimonton

I payed 4.02 a gallon the other day when just south of dc. It dropped back to the 3.80's the next day (probably caught for gouging) However I have to use Super premium (min of 93 octane). I have a Supercharged 05 mustang gt with a 93 tune. After that I have started walking and have picked out a bike to get next paycheck. Ill be going "lite" using the car only for trips or dates = )

Hammonjj

It should, the more fuel costs, the more your food costs.

Nightshade

The bad news here is......Sell the car and either go car free or get a cheaper car that can
use non-premium fuel.

The price of premium will kill it not to far down the road. Already NONE of the stations
within 30 mi of my home sell premium gas. More will follow..........

Ya I know, I,too, had a hot car for dating in my youth. Life can be a b!tch at times.

Artkansas 

Looks like the fuel prices are beginning to affect bicycles.

Gas prices knock bicycle sales, repairs into higher gear

gerv 

I see this little tidbit:
Does that mean the only room for my tent this summer will be in some far-flung ditch?

Neil_B

I agree.

https://masiguy.blogspot.com/2008/03/...onna-hurt.html

There was also a recent statement by Specialized's Mike Sinyard that they were raising prices because of increased costs.

Now, let's all cheer for higher gas prices!

Bikepacker67

Ohh.. so what?
Now it's too expensive to buy a bike?

Frankly, any nominal rise in the price of cycling equipment (from this commuter/utility cyclist's perspective) is more than offset by the plummeting of SUV sales (if we're talking from a quality of life standpoint)

FXjohn

the guy with the SUV will either still be able to afford the gas, believe it or not or he'll buy a car.
the poor who can barely afford a car will be hurt more than the rich SUV guy.
Oh well.

Neil_B

Is 5 to 10 per cent "nominal?"

https://www.friedlnet.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2331

And the point wasn't that it was too expensive to buy a bike. It was that the gas price increases the anti-car brigade has been cheering about are starting to have consequences they didn't foresee.

Bikepacker67

Who didn't foresee it?
I'm quite aware that my bicycles were produced in far off lands.

But look at the positives:
As prices rise, domestic producers may come online.
Used bikes will be more likely to be repaired and recycled instead of rusting in our landfills.

patc

I think you missed our point - its not that we don't realize rising oil prices will drive up all product prices. Rather, many of us feel the sooner this happens the better - this will mean a longer transition period, and thus a slightly better chance of society adjusting to the new realities.

rickyaustin

Where I currently (but not for long) live, having a car is not a choice. You must have one unless you are lucky enough to live within a couple miles of your work or work from home. The midwest outside of the cities lacks any public transportation at all. No buses, no trains, hell - the only way out of my hometown is the highway, where it is illegal to ride a bicycle. This is the norm for MUCH of the country. Many have no choice.

Many normal American's car-buying cycle is 3-5 years minimum, meaning they can't just dump their car and buy something more fuel efficient for a little while. Many people are stuck.

You and I and some have the choice, but some don't. This will get fixed across the country - because there isn't really any choice.

Eventually people won't live so far from work. Eventually the big SUVs will get traded in on small, more fuel efficient vehicles. I'll be surprised if SUV production remains as high as it is. I think there will be less to buy in the next few years. Hopefully some form of public transportation can be spread across the country.

Many here are pissed at the people in downtown metro areas driving Hummers. I am too. It's ludicrous. This is only a fraction of the problem and the rest of the problem has more difficult solutions.

In time this will get worked out. The USA doesn't really have a choice. Gas prices will never go back down unless we make/find our own gas. Asia's industrialization is creating billions of gas-loving-drivers. More buyers for less fuel = high prices. Eventually America will adapt, it will just be a slow, painful process.

*sorry for the length*

sykerocker 

No, it's more like, you don't just tear up your life and change it over completely within a couple of days. Just because you can live car-free (or very car-light) doesn't necessarily mean that your neighbor can starting tomorrow morning. In the complexity of living day to day, there's a bit more to cutting back than just parking the car permanently and getting the bicycle out of the basement.

Sometimes I think this group is so wound up on the automobile as the enemy that they can't see anything but happily pedaling down the street on a bright, sunny day.

FXjohn

are you talking about H2's or the original hummers?
If they are simply H2's they are no worse than SUV's such as a Toyota Sequia or Land Cruiser, Range Rover etc. It doesn't consume anymore gas because of the square corners or styling.