spectastic

I want to build a igh bike for touring and commuting and have the option to use a track style frame or a vert dropout frame. I prefer the vertical dropout bike because it's a lot lighter. I'd just like to know how the tensioner feels compared to a true singlespeed. I read it's not as smooth. There's a little friction. Less responsiveness. I'd like to get a clearer perspective on the pros and cons of a tensioner. Thanks

Night_shift

Chain tensioners are for people that are too lazy to figure out how to properly cypher the correct length of chain. There's many ways to figure this out. Google chain length calculator and you will get many avenues.

Even with a SS, I would rather have a well fitted chain with little to no slack than a tensioner.

spectastic

chain tensioner is for a vertical dropout. even if there's a magic gear ratio that's prone to chain stretching. a tensioner would allow me to change my sprocket without messing with the chain. I'm just wondering what people's reasons are for avoiding it

Night_shift

my mistake, I must have overlooked the part in your original post where you said vertical drop out. I could choose to be an ass here but I'll leave this image instead.



The reasons for avoiding it are simple: it sucks. Vertical drop outs are the cross section love child of lawyers and cheap bicycle manufactures. If I had a vertical drop out bike (which I do) I would leave it geared (which I did).

spectastic

OK I'm still looking for the answer to my question. I see there's an aversion for vertical dropouts. Are any of the reasons for avoiding vertical dropouts and tensioners legitimate from an utilitarian point of View

JohnDThompson 

Riding a single speed bike with a tensioner is no different from riding a derailleur equipped bike, leaving it in one gear.

You say this bike is intended for touring and commuting. If you plan on installing mudguards (a good idea on any touring or commuting bike, IMO), vertical dropouts are preferable to rear-facing track dropouts (hard to get the wheel out with track dropouts and mudguards). Is there some reason you aren't considering forward-facing horizontal dropouts? They work well with mudguards and obviate the need for a tensioner.

pitbullfan

Personally I think vertical dropouts were designed to accommodate gears.

By using a vertical dropout frame as a singlespeed with a chain tensioner, doesn't it defeat one of the main purposes of singlespeed bikes? Seems the more crap you add to the drive train the more crap can break.

Not to mention the loss of efficiency and added friction. Sure it can be done, but if you want singlespeed just get horizontal dropouts and go enjoy the ride. My $.02

jlafitte 

The way I read it, OP is limited to the two frames he lists.

klhada

I tried a conversion like that, and couldn't stand the noise from the tensioner (alfine one). I get a nice chainline, with no noise at all. As soon as I put the tensioner on, a LOT of noise. Tried a lot to get a silent working, but nothing works. Instead of trying again, with other tensioner, I just bought a horizontal dropout bike. Maybe I was unluck, but will not try again...

veganbikes

Wouldn't the chain tensioner negate that weight savings? If I am going for SS or IGH I wouldn't really want a derailleur that really isn't. I would rather just properly tension the chain if I could. Save on weight, have less moving parts and save some money buying a tensioner. The only reason for a chain tensioner is for bikes not designed for SS or IGH and since you haven't bought the bike yet there is really no reason to consider it.

There will be some friction and it won't be very smooth unless maybe you replace the pulleys with nice ceramic bearing'd ones and used a nicer grease.

AlmostTrick

Agreed. Not very nice.

OP, I used a tensioner on a single speed one time and was less than impressed with the results. Others may be happy with it. Since it sounds like you already have the frame, give it a go. If you don't like it you're not out much money or effort.

Bat56

Absolutety - it's another part on your bike that will get screwed up. If you are touring on this bike what are you going to do when the tensioner breaks?

Night Shift answered your question in the second post in this thread. The Magic Gear can be annoying (IMO) for a singlespeed because you might not get exactly where you want but bc you have an IGH you will never notice.

A. Figure out the Magic Gear
B. Obtain proper Chain ring and Cog
C. Profit

or

A. Use a tensioner
B. Break tensioner while touring from <undisclosed> to (<undisclosed> + 500 miles)
C. Hitchhike

Bat56

Show your math.

AlmostTrick

The math on the money, or the effort?

I used this unit on a nice Bianchi that was found in the trash. At $25 it's not a lot of money in my book.

Effort wise was even less. It took me longer to properly re-dish the wheel, than to install and adjust the tensioner.

You claim that tensioners will break... apparently in short order too. If this is fact, I am not aware of it. Show your evidence.

The Forte unit I used had good reviews. My main objection to it was aesthetics, and a little more drivetrain sound.

spectastic

why should a tensioner be any more likely to break than a derailleur? and I'm not planning to use one of the spring tensioners, but one of those where you tension it manually and tighten it. It's simpler, and more robust. and if I choose, I can carry a 20t and a 16t, depending on the wind and terrain, and not worry about a thing, while getting as much gearing range as a 34/28 to 53/11 hypothetical derailleur setup. taking the wheels off will be a pain in the ass, but that's the only real draw back i see.

spectastic

have you tried one of those tensioners that use little bearing type things instead of derailleur pulleys (or jockey wheels)?

IAmSam

If you absolutely must have a vertical dropout bike there is nothing wrong with putting a chain tensioner on it if you are unwilling to spend for eccentric solutions. Don't get me wrong, when I buy a new frame that's intended for SS/FG for myself now, I get one with horizontal do/trackends. But since you seem to have your mind made up...

I have experience with tensioners from converting geared mountain bikes to singlespeed so have used quite a few different tensioners over the years, with mostly good results. If the doofuses here telling you that a tensioner will automatically fail think they put their road bikes through anything near how I treated my SS MTBs, they are delusional - the things held up pretty damn well to the beatings I gave them. I am not saying I never had a failure, but lots of other components went bad on me in the past as well. Should I never buy anymore of those because I busted one?

I've had tensioners that pushed the chain from above and from below, but my particular favorites worked up by the chainring, attached to the bb. There was one from YESS, and also one from Blackspire that was very inexpensive but worked fantastic.

Or...there is always this

AlmostTrick

The only tensioner I personally have used is the one I posted above. But Sheldon seems to be ok with most tensioners, and it seems he knows what he's talking about.

Singlespeed Bicycle Conversions

Bluechip

You could keep the vertical dropout bike and use an ENO eccentric hub. It has enough of adjustment to allow for a few teeth differences in cogs.

Bat56

The math on starting with two frames, one vertical one horizontal, building one up and deciding you don't like it and then building up the other instead. Don't assume that all of the parts will fit each bike. Right out of the gate you are buying new no-turn washers and probably installing new cable and full housing.

Bat56

Might wanna re-read.

Bat56

If you are going to be changing your rear cog it's a no brainer, not even worth asking the question. Track ends cannot take up four teeth worth of slack (but of course you could change the length of the chain).

And I did not say it is more likely to break.

I have no tensioner on my horizontal drop-out IGH bike and I am totally glad I did it that way.

T13

St. Paul is a cool city.

SquidPuppet

Four teeth moves the axle about 12.7mms. Aren't most track end slots a good 30-35mms or so?

JeremyLC

I think you could get four teeth worth. My Fuji has a 15t on one side and an 18t (may be 19t) on the other.