Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > Cyclocross Racing
Reload this Page >

Non obvious cross racing advice

Notices
Cyclocross Racing Discuss pro racing, the big races, and even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Non obvious cross racing advice

Old 07-12-19, 04:59 PM
  #26  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,625
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1906 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by JeffOYB View Post
Masters, old farts, and busy career ppl with short time need a different approach to training. ...My impression is it tends to mean that typical workouts are harder than for younger riders or those with more time.

I've read all the books and most of the info out there. Too bad I don't retain it very well, but I do still have an impression of what is suggested for older, short-time riders.

Workouts should be varied. Not the same kind of hard every day. But my impression is that one easy day a week is enough for the easy part. Two or 3 easy days when you're old.

When you only have a half hour or hour to cover the weekly needs for a race and for speed, intervals, power, skills, strength, endurance, it means that you ARE going pretty hard in some respect for your other 3-5 weekly outings.

Whattayathink? Is that about right?
I'm only kinda old at the start of masters 35+ but going hard 5 times a week is too much. 3 times a week is about all anyone can sustain for weeks on end. Hard can be different types of ride though depending on the time of year as you approach the season. During base that means sweetspot and threshold extending those workouts out as long as possible and with as little rest as possible but still sticking to 2-3 days of hard. During build for ~6-9 weeks hard workouts are primarily threshold and over unders with some V02max work towards the end 3-4 days a week or some 5+ hour tempo rides. About a month before the start of the season 1 hard day gets replaced with CX specific drills like hill running repeats or sprint starts. Skills practice days can be hard or easy depending on what you are working on and if there are racepace practice rides in your area. I generally only go hard during specific sections of those courses and do more sustained hard work without having to mix in skills. Once race season starts you are doing 1-2 races/weekend and then recovering for ~2 days. You might be able to get 1 more hard day in the middle of the week or combined with a skills/practice race, then some easy spinning the following day and then openers. Any more than that and you'll likely burn out and/or tank your season. Younger guys can probably get away with a bit less recovery.
redlude97 is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 10:09 AM
  #27  
CyclingFever
I got a fever.
 
CyclingFever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
The thing is, they aren't really going hard then
They are if they are putting out a hard relative effort. They may be not be hammering at a certain speed daily but it can still be mental. Like that ride felt hard.

Like someone digging and digging till they can't get out of the hole.
CyclingFever is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 12:33 PM
  #28  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,475

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 232 Posts
Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
They are if they are putting out a hard relative effort. They may be not be hammering at a certain speed daily but it can still be mental. Like that ride felt hard.

Like someone digging and digging till they can't get out of the hole.
I think lude's point is that it literally doesn't work that way, ignoring whatever someone thinks they're accomplishing in their head.

It doesn't matter what's in your head if you ignore how the body actually works.

You can try to "force" yourself to do 40/20's like I did on my abbreviated lunch workout today everyday. I wouldn't. Because your performance will decline to the point that they aren't at an intensity level any longer to do any good.

Even low time riders can't do whatever they want everyday. The idea that since you don't ride 300 miles a week that you can ride 30min hard as nails everyday is simply wrong.

I'd see something like Tabatas or 40/20's as staples of cross. I'd guess anyway. Hammer, slow for corner and do the corner/obstable, hammer, repeat. You simply can't do 40/20's or 30/30's or 1:1 work everyday.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 12:36 PM
  #29  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,625
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1906 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
They are if they are putting out a hard relative effort. They may be not be hammering at a certain speed daily but it can still be mental. Like that ride felt hard.

Like someone digging and digging till they can't get out of the hole.
Mental it doesn't matter in terms of actual training or performance. Beating yourself against a wall day after day just leads to being mediocre
redlude97 is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 03:25 PM
  #30  
CyclingFever
I got a fever.
 
CyclingFever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Mental it doesn't matter in terms of actual training or performance. Beating yourself against a wall day after day just leads to being mediocre
That's what I was trying to say but struggled to get the words right haha.
CyclingFever is offline  
Old 07-19-19, 11:01 AM
  #31  
Abe_Froman
Senior Member
 
Abe_Froman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,561

Bikes: Marin Four Corners, 1960's Schwinn Racer in middle of restoration, mid 70s Motobecane Grand Touring, various other heaps.

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9344 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I'm only kinda old at the start of masters 35+ but going hard 5 times a week is too much. 3 times a week is about all anyone can sustain for weeks on end. Hard can be different types of ride though depending on the time of year as you approach the season. During base that means sweetspot and threshold extending those workouts out as long as possible and with as little rest as possible but still sticking to 2-3 days of hard. During build for ~6-9 weeks hard workouts are primarily threshold and over unders with some V02max work towards the end 3-4 days a week or some 5+ hour tempo rides. About a month before the start of the season 1 hard day gets replaced with CX specific drills like hill running repeats or sprint starts. Skills practice days can be hard or easy depending on what you are working on and if there are racepace practice rides in your area. I generally only go hard during specific sections of those courses and do more sustained hard work without having to mix in skills. Once race season starts you are doing 1-2 races/weekend and then recovering for ~2 days. You might be able to get 1 more hard day in the middle of the week or combined with a skills/practice race, then some easy spinning the following day and then openers. Any more than that and you'll likely burn out and/or tank your season. Younger guys can probably get away with a bit less recovery.

I concur. I'm 40, have ridden fairly extensively for years, and for the last year have started structured plans on a smart trainer. I can handle 3 hard, HARD workouts a week, no more. Now, I can add in commuting, or a relatively tame group ride, or a couple endurance workouts on the trainer to add a bit of volume (but not all 3 of those things every week...). But more than 3 hard workouts a week, and I start to really feel it, like dread getting on the trainer because my legs just feel like ****.

I've gotten smarter about it though...and I've taken to inserting a rest week mid block if I've done more miles than I'm used to, or went too hard on a group ride while also hitting all my scheduled workouts on the trainer, and just generally feel overcooked.
Abe_Froman is offline  
Old 02-06-20, 01:09 PM
  #32  
Emilio700
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Teamprovicycle View Post
in 5 sentences or less plz give me some very non obvious cross racing advice to get better ...thnkx...
Old thread but what the hell..

I've been national champion once, 5th and 7th at worlds, masters cyclocross.

1. ~8 weeks or so from CX season, start doing specific drills and intervals. Specificity is the key to cross. It is not a steady power, steady cadence. It is constantly changing cadence with constant decelerations and accelerations. Those accelerations are often at low cadence because the ground is too bumpy to use a high cadence. So interval work should be low cadence, very high power that winds up to speed. You rarely need to accelerate for more than a few seconds in cross so intervals should be short but repeated immediately with very little rest.
One of my favorites is my soccer field sprints. Start near one goal post at corner, accelerate hard for about 5s across width of field to opposite side, then settle to steady state speed. Brake hard, tight U-turn then accelerate hard again for 5s. Repeat until you hurl.
Option is to run across width of field with bike, make u-turn, remount than accelerate for 5s, dismount on other side, U turn then run. Repeat until hurl.

2. Pre ride course until you can memorize it. Practice alternate lines. Never assume the line everyone else is taking is the fastest. Look for areas that have less rolling resistance or more traction. Every tiny bit of speed you find is free watts. I generally walk up run ups in practice to save the legs. But at least once you need to hit each running section at race pace to get a feel for it.

3. Caffeine. Lots

4. When in doubt, lower your pressure. Lowers rolling resistance on the bumpy stuff, adds grip and control.

5. Don't be macho about your gearing. Just because some 22 year old, 6-2", 175 lb elite rider is running a 42x 11-25 doesn't mean you should too. If running an MTB cassette allows you to ride stuff that others in your class bog down on, you have an advantage.

Make friends with pain and you will succeed in cross.

Last edited by Emilio700; 02-06-20 at 08:01 PM.
Emilio700 is offline  
Likes For Emilio700:
Old 02-10-20, 10:03 AM
  #33  
50voltphantom
Senior Member
 
50voltphantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SD
Posts: 2,690

Bikes: Handsome Fredward, Trek 1.1

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Emilio700 View Post
Old thread but what the hell..
2. Pre ride course until you can memorize it.
All of your points are good but this is the one I picked up on only recently. Watch any of the pro's VLOG's lately and they can verbally recite the course like it's nothing. Memorizing the course means you know where to be at each transition/section to maintain momentum, which is everything.
50voltphantom is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 10:16 AM
  #34  
JeffOYB
Senior Member
 
JeffOYB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Williamston, MI "Wee-um-stun"
Posts: 635

Bikes: Uh... road, mtb, tour, CX (kludged), 3spd, 'bent, tandem, folder (the fam has another, what, 8)

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Yeah, thanks for the tips and drills.

I also like the pre-ride idea. Basically: how much advantage do locals have? A LOT! How to reduce that advantage? Do all you can to get to know the course and also how it works best. Do all you can to be a local on any course. Really, it's tough and might not even be possible. So they're gonna have free seconds on you. But over the years if courses are kept on a circuit you'll get much better and familiar and engrained on each course. Heck, I also like doing mutiple races on a day. Do an early race to get the flow then go for it more on a later race. I usually go all out for both but tend to go faster smoother on the 2nd event, and place better even tho it's a higher Cat!
JeffOYB is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 11:16 AM
  #35  
50voltphantom
Senior Member
 
50voltphantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SD
Posts: 2,690

Bikes: Handsome Fredward, Trek 1.1

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 14 Posts
Do core strength exercises. I'm talking like ~10 minutes 2-3 times a week. Your back will thank you.

You're welcome.
50voltphantom is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
IP Freely
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
17
01-17-13 05:55 PM
Debusama
Europe
3
11-05-11 02:38 PM
OhioBuckeye
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
1
07-11-10 06:05 PM
MJH2
Great Lakes
464
04-19-10 06:50 PM
jgf310
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
4
12-21-09 08:20 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.