John Young

I have seen two cheap second hand cameras for sale.

Apeman Trawo 4K Action Camera

Sony HDR-AS50 Action Camera

Has anyone tried them out are they any good and between these two which is the best ??

canklecat

What are you using an action cam for? If for routine traffic documentation in case of collision and injury, those are the wrong cameras.

GoPros and knockoffs like the Apeman (and my VanTop Moment 4) are for fairly short duration action stuff where you don't need ready access to the controls. Even with remote controls, etc., they aren't well suited to mundane but essential traffic documentation for commuters or anyone who rides a lot on public roads.

I tried a couple of GoPro knockoffs for a month or so last year and got frustrated with them. The battery is good for 60-90 minutes, tops. The water/weather-proof housings usually supplied with them are crap and will break within a few uses. The mounts are a PITA. It's almost impossible to know for certain whether the thing is running on a helmet mount. I got it to replace my old Ion Speed Pro, but it was even worse for traffic stuff. At least the Ion had good hands-free tactile and audible alerts so I knew which mode it was in without looking.

For commuting, routine traffic documentation and all weather use, the best I've found for the money is the Drift Ghost X. HD video, 5-hour runtime (really -- and there's an optional 8-hour battery module for only $30), a very good app that lets you review a video (I used it to demonstrate unsafe schoolbus driving to the supervisor only minutes after a near-miss), low profile with a good mount. Costs less than $100, and often there's a coupon or discount that brings the price down to $60-75. That's what paid for both of mine. I run 'em front and rear because I nearly get clobbered every dang bike ride -- twice on Monday, Presidon't Day.

And I'm considering adding one more for my helmet, although I hate wearing that weight on my noggin. But even the front and rear ultra wide lenses can't capture side impacts.

The only thing most Drift Ghost X owners who are satisfied with the camera seem to want is stabilization, but I'm not sure how much that would really help. Many GoPro knockoffs, including my VanTop, have stabilization but it's swimmy and doesn't really help capture essential detail -- license plates. But the real problem is the tiny plates used in the US, with highly reflective surfaces that cause glare at night. It would take a true 4K camera with a larger sensor for lower noise at higher ISO, which isn't going to be affordable.

The Ghost X has a few recording mode options. Some people prefer the "tagging" option. Basically, the camera records continuously but pushing a button flags a certain amount of time before and after the button press. While that seems sensible, it requires a conscious operator who has use of his hand. That's not practical for a genuine emergency.

I run 'em in DVR mode, with each segment 5 minutes long. It will record continuously for 5 hours. If it exceeds the media card capacity, it will loop around and record over the earliest recording. My 50 mile ride Monday was the first time I've filled up a 32GB card and the first few 5 minute segments were recorded over. But the battery was still good. I'll switch to 64GB cards this week.

With a preview I can quickly locate the segment I want in case I need to provide evidence. That includes nearly getting clobbered by an Amazon driver Monday. I caught up with the driver and he was shocked and said he didn't see me. I believe he was remorseful, but I also believe he wasn't paying attention. There's no way he couldn't have seen me if he was actually looking. We had a constructive chat, which I also recorded, so I probably won't report it. I hope he got the message. I was able to find those segments easily, without needing to fiddle with the tagging mode.

There are a bunch of YouTube reviews for the Drift Ghost X, some good, some bad. I'm satisfied, but I've had mine for only a few months. I got the first in September 2019, and the second in December. I run 'em every ride, 3-5 times a week, 125-150 miles a week, including in rain two or three times -- no special housing, they seem reasonably well sealed as-is for rain.

c_m_shooter

I have had the Sony for a few years. It works ok, but mounts are more limited than the popular gopros. It tends to take wide shots, great for showing landscapes, not so great for detailed stills. When it is quiet the audio indicating start and stop is easy to hear, but not when a motorcycle engine is running, then I need to be able to look at the display on the side to see that it is running.

John Young

Thanks for the feedback....

I am going to be using my camera for my vlogging on my bike. Been cycling 30+ years and decided it was time I share my adventures. At the moment I am using a little (£20) YI Action camera which is brilliant BUT battery life is a bit limited and no anti-shake so can make you feel a little watching it

If you want to check out my channel its new but hopefully will grow and here is the LINK

Daniel4

I've recently purchased an action camera on a sale for the purpose of identifying offending vehicles during my rides.

I now know what I should have looked for.
Long battery life. Make sure the battery will last your entire ride. If you need to, get spare batteries and make sure an external charger is available. Otherwise, when it's time to charge a bunch of drained batteries, you can only do it one at a time in the camera. Also, check that the charging time is shorter than the battery life. It may be handy to plug the camera into a power bank while recording.

Wifi. If your camera has its own wifi and app, it helps to see if it is still recording or if the battery is running low. But running on wifi drains the battery faster.

John Young

I think the Drift Ghost X as canklecat said above would be great for a bike security type cam to record your whole ride for safety. I did look at one at a good price but only passed on it as although it had decent quality and LONG battery it never had image stabilization

canklecat

Image stabilization isn't a must if the camera is mounted on the bike. IS does help with helmet mounted cameras.

John Young

Are you sure that is not the other way around.... My camera at the moment has no stabilization and if its in my hand its actually not to bad. Not perfect but not to bad. But if I put my hand on the handlebars with it in my hand its all over the place as the vibrations are going through the handlebars

canklecat

Depends on the type of image stabilization and whether it's designed to reduce handheld/helmet type motion, or chatter from roads, fast boat travel over water, etc.

Better camera systems like Nikon's VR offer a choice of stabilization settings for handheld or vibration motions ("normal" for handheld, and "active" or "tripod/monopod/vehicle mount" induced vibrations). And some camera systems use lens based stabilization, while others use sensor based stabilization. I haven't seen any low priced action video cameras that offer these choices.

The VanTop Moment 4 has good stabilization for handheld and helmet mounted use. But it wasn't particularly useful for bike mounted use.

I have two Drift Ghost X cameras, mounted on my bike via the Drift mounts -- the bike handlebar/stem type and the roll-bar type, which is nearly identical but has longer bolts and a slightly longer stem. I use the handlebar mount on my seat post, upside down, under the saddle and saddle bag. Then I twist the collar around the lens that orients the image in the natural position.

Of the two, the rear facing videos are noticeably smoother, with little need for stabilization. The front facing videos usually suffer some road chatter vibration. I've tried a few tricks including a bit of Blu Tack gum under the mounting shoe to deaden vibration, but it hasn't helped much if at all. I suspect the problem is fork is simply doing what forks do -- vibrate and flex.

When helmet mounted the Drift Ghost X videos were almost unwatchable -- swimmy, swoopy, almost nauseating. The only advantage was the ability to look toward a potential source of danger or interest. Same problem I had with the Ion Speed Pro. Very common complaint with many owners of any helmet mounted camera that lacks appropriate stabilization for helmet/handheld use.

So for helmet mounting I'd suggest the best camera you can afford that does include stabilization. But be sure it has some sort of feedback cue -- audible or tactile -- to let you know when the camera is on/recording, or off. Otherwise you'll be pulling off your helmet often to check the camera. The Ion Speed Pro had a single slider switch that couldn't be mistaken, and a long vibration to indicate when it was switched on and off. The Ghost X has two distinct audible alerts. The VanTop Moment 4 had no alerts that could be felt or heard through the weatherproof casing that was essential for securely mounting the camera. Even with the remote (which could be worn on the wrist) there was no feedback to be sure anything happened. So check those details before selecting a camera.

atwl77

For vlogging I think one of the newer GoPros would be more suitable. Better stabilization and audio, especially. If cost is an issue, maybe look for a used Hero 7 Black... which from a practical standpoint is already pretty good compared to the latest Hero 8. GoPros aside, the Sony X3000 would be the next best thing. Stabilization is pretty good considering its age, and also has very fast startup-to-record time.

Edit: Looking at some of your videos, such as Cycling Diary 4, yeah I think a GoPro (or GoPro-style) camera would be quite suitable for your usage style.. Add the GoPro "Shorty" tripod/handle/stick and you can easily stick it into your jersey pocket, ready to be pulled out and start recording when you need to. Check out my channel, I'm recording exclusively with GoPros these days.

John Young

Thank you - Yes I did look at the GoPro first and saw a couple that looked good but I was shocked that it was only from 5 that they had IS I thought all GoPro's had IS. But the later ones are a fair but more than what I paid (£55) even the Sony X3000 is around the £200 mark second hand.

Anyway I have not bought the Sony HDR-AS50 - Looks pretty good for the price (£55) and has decent reviews IS and a BIG battery life which will be great... When I get it I will test it if you check out my videos

I have subbed to your channel

rumrunn6

fwiw - things I consider with my sport cams
waterproof w/o big heavy housing
generally light weight
multiple mounts so I can use them on bars, helmet & other places like my roof rake
quick release mounts that can be used while riding
black color to be more inconspicuous
light color when I want traffic to better see that I am using a camera
easily found used units so I can have more than one
mac & windows interchangeable compatibility to change settings with any computer at home or at the office
file format comparability with the software I may use to edit the movie files
very wide angle view, helps reduce apparent vibration (even with stabilization)
(better night vision, mine are not great for that)
ease of use
low profile

atwl77

Even though 5 and 6 have IS, but it is only from 7 onwards that the IS is phenomenally stable. It's like having a motorized gimbal built-in. If I had to choose between a GoPro 5/6 or a Sony action cam, I'd go for the Sony.

I'm assuming you mean "have now bought"? Congrats, it should do well. It may not have Balanced Optical SteadyShot like the AS300 or X3000... but better than nothing, and the big point is that the IS is still optical in nature, which means it will be equally effective regardless of lighting conditions. The GoPros (and almost every other non-Sony action camera) use digital IS and they typically do not perform well at night.

Thanks!

John Young

Yes I mean "Have now bought"

Between the GoPro 5/6 you would go with a Sony..... ??? Thought you really rated the GoPro


I also looked at the Apeman Trawo and looked great BUT it had no tripod mount so you would need to put it in case to use with tripod and then that would mean crap audio

zjrog

I bought an Amazon cheapie. Cross tour action...

Hard mounted to the stem of my bike on smooth surfaces isn't bad.


But on rough chipseal, and with some speed, not so great...

For the record, that is 30+ MPH...

Not bad for a $30 camera... But the battery doesn't last much over 90 minutes. And micro SD cards are quite cheap. I want to try and run this camera off a power bank like I use for charging my phone.

atwl77

Nah, I'm not exactly brand-loyal. I go with whatever best fits my needs. The GoPros only became decent since version 6, and then took a giant leap with their Hypersmooth stabilization from 7 onwards. Back when Sony AS300 and X3000 were still new, their Balanced Optical SteadyShot was king. In fact, their startup-to-record time is still extremely good - better than the latest GoPro models too.

On a side note, in regards to stabilization, it looks like the new Insta360's One R holds plenty of promise from the reviews that I have seen. Able to stabilize crazy amounts of tilts and swivels. However it has other aspects that I'd consider deal breakers for my style of usage. Oh well... /shrug

canklecat

Right, another reason why I prefer the Drift cameras -- the Ghost X being their current least expensive model. The 4k version is over $200, still reasonable.

Drift cameras have decent audio, although they're susceptible to wind noise. The wind noise depends on where it's mounted. On helmets it picks up turbulence created by the helmet vents. On the front of the bike it picks up a little turbulence from the frame. On the rear it's much quieter, hardly any wind turbulence since my body blocks most of the wind.

The Drift camera body and mount use standard tripod bolts, but each has a serrated surface that meshes to hold the camera in the desired position without spinning loose. And I use a safety leash just in case the mount fails.

The low priced GoPro knockoffs have standard tripod mounts, but no serrated surfaces to lock them to the mounts, so the camera is likely to spin loose and aim the wrong way or just fall off. I used it that way a couple of times, without the protective housing after the hinged closure cracked, but never felt confident in the setup.

If I use the VanTop Moment 4 at all now, it's in my jersey pocket for handheld videos and snaps. Not bad for that and the image stabilization works well for videos on the go.

John Young

On the camera I have been using (YI Original) it has great picture but the sound is bad with the wind. I actually got myself a little wind muff thing of ebay for a few quid and it works a treat. I just fasten it on with elastic bands and if you see my channel later videos HERE

You can see on the later videos how the wind is much better. This is WHAT I BOUGHT off ebay