Thoughts on the Shimano Nexus Inter-8 after 500 miles of light touring
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Thoughts on the Shimano Nexus Inter-8 after 500 miles of light touring
I've written previously to describe my Surly Cross Check set up with a Shimano front hub generator (LINK). For the drive-train, I usually have it configured as a fixed gear bike for all weather commuting in the fairly flat area in which I live.
However, I recently did a light tour, and when thinking about which bike to use decided that my Cross Check would be ideal since it already has fenders, lights and a rack. That is, except for the fact that I'd need at least some gears...
So, I decided to build up a new wheel around an internally-geared hub. I was motivated to have the ability to quickly go back to fixed gear riding, yet be able to easily add gears in the future as the need arises.
My experience was extremely positive:
The Ride:
I rode from South Bend, IN to a town called North East, PA (it is about 15 miles northeast of Erie, PA). The route I took was 470 miles and although mostly flat turned out to be surprisingly hilly southeast of Cleveland. I carried about 40 pounds of gear: I camped along the way, but ate out for meals. I took six days for the ride: the most miles in one day was 111 and the fewest was 56. It was a total blast. You can see pictures from the ride HERE.
Parts and Pricing:
I bought the hub from Alfred E Bike and the shifter and HubBub drop bar shifter adaptor from Harris Cyclery. Specifically, the hub is the premium, "red band" version with model number SG-8R25. I built the wheel using a Mavic MA3 rim and 14/15 double butted spokes. The total cost for everything (hub, spokes, rim, shifter, HubBub and new tire and tube), including shipping, came to $308.
Installation:
The first installation took a little while because it was totally new (thanks to bjkeen for some very helpful tips!). However, now that I have the hang of it, it is very easy to switch back and forth between my fixed gear setup and the internally geared hub. On the one hand I was frustrated to spend $55 for the HubBub adaptor (Shimano makes only one shifter for this hub, and the diameter of its clamp is designed for flat bars), but it makes it VERY easy to remove all traces of the internally-geared system. I simply loosen one bolt for the adaptor which then slides out of the end of my drop bars, stick in a bar plug, cut the cable ties that hold the cable housing to the frame and switch rear wheels. The process literally only takes five minutes. You can see pictures HERE.
Gear Range:
I used the included 19 tooth cog on the hub (I use a 16 tooth cog for my fixed gear wheel) and kept my usual 42 tooth chain ring. This give the following gears (in gear-inches): 95.5, 83.9, 72.3, 59.2, 50.3, 44.2, 38.1 and 31.2. The gear range was totally adequate. Only on a few occasions did I go to the lowest or highest gears and never felt like I needed to go higher or lower.
Efficiency:
There is indeed a clear loss of efficiency, particularly in the lower gears, compared to a derailleur system. I was initially disconcerted to feel a grinding in gears 1-4; I'm not sure if it decreased with time, but before long I didn't notice it. I wouldn't want to use this for racing, but the loss didn't even come close to making me think twice about using this for my style of touring.
Shift Quality:
This is perhaps the most impressive aspect. The system shifts incredibly well. I was surprised by how much I appreciated being able to shift while stopped. Previously I thought that was a silly benefit-- why not just lift the wheel and shift? However, I gained appreciation for this quickly when my bike was fully loaded. There is occasionally a "clunk" for a shift, but usually it is super smooth. I have experienced a few clunks when I was not in the process of shifting. They've been far enough apart to not bother me, but I'm surprised that they occur at all because I keep the system carefully adjusted.
Reliability:
I've only got a total of 500 miles on this so far so I can't speak to this with authority. I can say that it worked so well on my ride that I feel confident in using it. That is, I don't fear that it will break down during the course of a long ride. That said, I'm not so confident that I would use this if I were touring in extremely remote areas. I'll post back after I have a few thousand miles on it.
Overall:
This is an excellent system for me. For several-day-tours around the midwest I have no reservations using this and the convenience and added versatility for my fixed gear commuter far outweigh the loss in efficiency. However, this would not be appropriate for touring in mountainous areas due to an inadequate gear range for long or steep loaded ascents. Also, I haven't logged enough miles to trust this this for a "mission critical" ride in remote areas.
However, I recently did a light tour, and when thinking about which bike to use decided that my Cross Check would be ideal since it already has fenders, lights and a rack. That is, except for the fact that I'd need at least some gears...
So, I decided to build up a new wheel around an internally-geared hub. I was motivated to have the ability to quickly go back to fixed gear riding, yet be able to easily add gears in the future as the need arises.
My experience was extremely positive:
The Ride:
I rode from South Bend, IN to a town called North East, PA (it is about 15 miles northeast of Erie, PA). The route I took was 470 miles and although mostly flat turned out to be surprisingly hilly southeast of Cleveland. I carried about 40 pounds of gear: I camped along the way, but ate out for meals. I took six days for the ride: the most miles in one day was 111 and the fewest was 56. It was a total blast. You can see pictures from the ride HERE.
Parts and Pricing:
I bought the hub from Alfred E Bike and the shifter and HubBub drop bar shifter adaptor from Harris Cyclery. Specifically, the hub is the premium, "red band" version with model number SG-8R25. I built the wheel using a Mavic MA3 rim and 14/15 double butted spokes. The total cost for everything (hub, spokes, rim, shifter, HubBub and new tire and tube), including shipping, came to $308.
Installation:
The first installation took a little while because it was totally new (thanks to bjkeen for some very helpful tips!). However, now that I have the hang of it, it is very easy to switch back and forth between my fixed gear setup and the internally geared hub. On the one hand I was frustrated to spend $55 for the HubBub adaptor (Shimano makes only one shifter for this hub, and the diameter of its clamp is designed for flat bars), but it makes it VERY easy to remove all traces of the internally-geared system. I simply loosen one bolt for the adaptor which then slides out of the end of my drop bars, stick in a bar plug, cut the cable ties that hold the cable housing to the frame and switch rear wheels. The process literally only takes five minutes. You can see pictures HERE.
Gear Range:
I used the included 19 tooth cog on the hub (I use a 16 tooth cog for my fixed gear wheel) and kept my usual 42 tooth chain ring. This give the following gears (in gear-inches): 95.5, 83.9, 72.3, 59.2, 50.3, 44.2, 38.1 and 31.2. The gear range was totally adequate. Only on a few occasions did I go to the lowest or highest gears and never felt like I needed to go higher or lower.
Efficiency:
There is indeed a clear loss of efficiency, particularly in the lower gears, compared to a derailleur system. I was initially disconcerted to feel a grinding in gears 1-4; I'm not sure if it decreased with time, but before long I didn't notice it. I wouldn't want to use this for racing, but the loss didn't even come close to making me think twice about using this for my style of touring.
Shift Quality:
This is perhaps the most impressive aspect. The system shifts incredibly well. I was surprised by how much I appreciated being able to shift while stopped. Previously I thought that was a silly benefit-- why not just lift the wheel and shift? However, I gained appreciation for this quickly when my bike was fully loaded. There is occasionally a "clunk" for a shift, but usually it is super smooth. I have experienced a few clunks when I was not in the process of shifting. They've been far enough apart to not bother me, but I'm surprised that they occur at all because I keep the system carefully adjusted.
Reliability:
I've only got a total of 500 miles on this so far so I can't speak to this with authority. I can say that it worked so well on my ride that I feel confident in using it. That is, I don't fear that it will break down during the course of a long ride. That said, I'm not so confident that I would use this if I were touring in extremely remote areas. I'll post back after I have a few thousand miles on it.
Overall:
This is an excellent system for me. For several-day-tours around the midwest I have no reservations using this and the convenience and added versatility for my fixed gear commuter far outweigh the loss in efficiency. However, this would not be appropriate for touring in mountainous areas due to an inadequate gear range for long or steep loaded ascents. Also, I haven't logged enough miles to trust this this for a "mission critical" ride in remote areas.
Last edited by Derailed; 09-08-07 at 09:14 AM.
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I have wondered how a system like this would do combined with a Schlumpf bottom bracket. Using a 19-tooth or smaller rear sproket and a mountain drive or a larger sproket and a high-speed drive. You might get a 500% range that would make for a good mountain tourer; nearly the range of the Rohloff but at 70% or less the cost.
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Good report. Definitely re-post as I am very interested in that hub. I love my 3-speed and am considering an internal hub'd bike for the same reasons - clean lines, less mess. Oh, that ANT Rohloff!
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This could be used with a double or triple in front (with der.) No?
Cuz loaded touring with 31 gear inches is way too high a low gear for this engine!
Cuz loaded touring with 31 gear inches is way too high a low gear for this engine!
Last edited by Bikepacker67; 05-28-06 at 11:26 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
This could be used with a double or triple in front (with der.) No?
Cuz loaded touring with 31 gear inches is way too high for a low gear for this engine!
Cuz loaded touring with 31 gear inches is way too high for a low gear for this engine!
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Bikeparker67,
The new Shimano 8 speed hub as a range of about 65 gear/inches. If you want lower gears, you have to change the size of the frount chainring or rear cog. So pick the lowest number of gear inches you use, say 20, and pick a cog/chain ring combo for that. Your top gear would be around 85. Figure out if that's enough range for your needs. If not, stick to derailuers.
Honestly, I think most touring could be done with this range. It's such a bomb proof and smooth system.
The new Shimano 8 speed hub as a range of about 65 gear/inches. If you want lower gears, you have to change the size of the frount chainring or rear cog. So pick the lowest number of gear inches you use, say 20, and pick a cog/chain ring combo for that. Your top gear would be around 85. Figure out if that's enough range for your needs. If not, stick to derailuers.
Honestly, I think most touring could be done with this range. It's such a bomb proof and smooth system.
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Derailed
Cool setup. With the Nexus and the dynamo you are set for some long time low maintainence riding. The bike still has that smooth clean single speed geary look and all the benefits of a derailleur.
Cool setup. With the Nexus and the dynamo you are set for some long time low maintainence riding. The bike still has that smooth clean single speed geary look and all the benefits of a derailleur.
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I've thought of the same thing CHenery. Seems like it would be so close to the Rohloff in cost it wouldn't be worth it. I've thought if I build a gearhub bike I would go with an eccentric bottom bracket. I don't think ( correct me if I'm wrong) a schlumph will work with a EBB.
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Bikeparker67
If you gear down to 20 inches in 1st gear as tacomee suggests you would have about 15 MPH at a 80 RPM cadence on flat ground in 8th gear or about 13.5MPH @70RPM or 12MPH @60RPM. I know if I needed 20 gear inches to pedal up a hill I'll be coasting down the other side thus negaiting the need for a big top gear.
If you gear down to 20 inches in 1st gear as tacomee suggests you would have about 15 MPH at a 80 RPM cadence on flat ground in 8th gear or about 13.5MPH @70RPM or 12MPH @60RPM. I know if I needed 20 gear inches to pedal up a hill I'll be coasting down the other side thus negaiting the need for a big top gear.
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I've got a 21" lowest gear on my SRAM S7 and can pedal at around 34km/h on the flat in top gear at a reasonable cadence. In theory you could do the same with the Nexus. I've never been in need of a bigger gear when I'm touring.
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Originally Posted by carlton
I've thought if I build a gearhub bike I would go with an eccentric bottom bracket. I don't think ( correct me if I'm wrong) a schlumph will work with a EBB.
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Originally Posted by highlyselassie
I dunno if it'll work with an EBB, but why would you want one anyway, what's wrong with horizontal dropouts?
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I'm really glad you posted your experience, I was planing a bike like this though for now I have decided to stay with the derailleur. They keep improving the nexus so it's never too late to jump in. the high performance 8 speed Nexus is about 165 online which seems so much cheaper than Rohloff that it ought to have a market for something other than comfort bikes.
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Sorry it has taken me so long to post back! I did a longer tour this summer (~1500 miles), and the Nexus was great! Since I don't use it for daily riding, the total mileage is still only about 2500, but I continue to be happy with this setup. I'm not sure if I would use it to cross the Rockies or Appalachians... hopefully I'll make such a ride next summer and need to make this decision! However, if you're looking for a way to add some versatility to a fixed-gear bike for light touring, this is definitely a good way to go.
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Sorry it has taken me so long to post back! I did a longer tour this summer (~1500 miles), and the Nexus was great! Since I don't use it for daily riding, the total mileage is still only about 2500, but I continue to be happy with this setup. I'm not sure if I would use it to cross the Rockies or Appalachians... hopefully I'll make such a ride next summer and need to make this decision! However, if you're looking for a way to add some versatility to a fixed-gear bike for light touring, this is definitely a good way to go.
Since your first post, I've aquired a bike that would make a good candidate for one of those hubs.
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Wow, AEbike is giving these hubs away. $150 is a steal. But did you have to go to their retail location to pick it up? Their website says that the hub cannot be shipped. Many other shimano parts have the same restriction.
Also, what spoke length did you use with your MA-3 rims?
Thanks!
Also, what spoke length did you use with your MA-3 rims?
Thanks!
#17
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Yeah, AEbike gives some amazingly good prices. Do be careful, however: they have a restocking fee for ANY returned item. As an embarrassing anecdote, I once ordered a seatpost for a friend because hers was stolen. Not having the original to measure, I guessed at the size (dumb, I know) and got it wrong. So, to avoid doing that again, I ordered like six seatposts to bracket the correct size. One was indeed correct, but then I had like six to send back. That was when I learned about the restocking fee! But I digress... they will ship, but you have to call your order in.
Harris Cyclery is more expensive, but you can get much better advice from them if needed. And, I've been pleasantly surprised to find a few freebies thrown in (e.g. rim tape, spare bulb for generator hub, etc). Don't get me wrong -- I don't mean to preach (indeed, I want the cheap route and bought my hub from AE BIke...), but you definitely get better service from Harris.
I ended up using 282 [mm] spokes for both sides... you can read about my decision making process HERE. The dish for this is very slight, and the wheel built up nicely with these spokes. I haven't had to do any subsequent truing, but this is more a testimony to the magic of a tensionometer and initially round rims. This was only like the second or third wheel I built.
Harris Cyclery is more expensive, but you can get much better advice from them if needed. And, I've been pleasantly surprised to find a few freebies thrown in (e.g. rim tape, spare bulb for generator hub, etc). Don't get me wrong -- I don't mean to preach (indeed, I want the cheap route and bought my hub from AE BIke...), but you definitely get better service from Harris.
I ended up using 282 [mm] spokes for both sides... you can read about my decision making process HERE. The dish for this is very slight, and the wheel built up nicely with these spokes. I haven't had to do any subsequent truing, but this is more a testimony to the magic of a tensionometer and initially round rims. This was only like the second or third wheel I built.
Wow, AEbike is giving these hubs away. $150 is a steal. But did you have to go to their retail location to pick it up? Their website says that the hub cannot be shipped. Many other shimano parts have the same restriction.
Also, what spoke length did you use with your MA-3 rims?
Thanks!
Also, what spoke length did you use with your MA-3 rims?
Thanks!
#18
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Tell me about it...
On my tour this summer I met a very nice veteran tourer in a restaurant. He introduced himself after seeing my loaded bike outside and guessed it was mine -- he was particularly interested in the rear hub. He made a funny comment about using a brand new Brooks, but it already had ~1500 miles on it at that point! It was comfortable almost since the very beginning, but it still looks brand new (and now has about 2500 miles in service). According to him, it isn't broken in until near the 5,000 mile mark.
On my tour this summer I met a very nice veteran tourer in a restaurant. He introduced himself after seeing my loaded bike outside and guessed it was mine -- he was particularly interested in the rear hub. He made a funny comment about using a brand new Brooks, but it already had ~1500 miles on it at that point! It was comfortable almost since the very beginning, but it still looks brand new (and now has about 2500 miles in service). According to him, it isn't broken in until near the 5,000 mile mark.
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I'm going to build up a nexus hub using the same specs as you. Thanks for your advice, you saved me a lot of time and trouble.
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Several years ago I built a bike with a 3-speed hub and 48-38-28 triple crank. The resulting 9 speed hybrid system had an enormous gear range and was a nice ride. So nice a person I allowed to use it made an offer for it I could not refuse!
#22
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I used the hub again last summer (2007) for a 1500 mile tour around Lake Michigan. I used a rear panniers and a handlebar bag like in 2006. The ride was fairly flat except for the western part of Michigan's upper peninsula. You can see pictures from the ride HERE.
The hub worked very well, and as in 2006 the gear range was adequate. Near the end of the tour I started to hear some clicking sounds that had me a bit worried, but nothing that caused any mechanical problems. Come to think of it... I also noticed that my bottom bracket shell was coming loose soon after I returned from that ride.. unfortunately, I tightened that up at the same time I switched back to a fixed-gear rear hub. It is possible that the loose BB shell caused the clicking noise.
In any event, I now have ~2000 miles of trouble-free, moderately loaded touring on the hub and would say that it is excellent for touring in the midwest. I'd still be leery of using it to cross really mountainous areas, but bet it could be done.
Thanks for your interest!
The hub worked very well, and as in 2006 the gear range was adequate. Near the end of the tour I started to hear some clicking sounds that had me a bit worried, but nothing that caused any mechanical problems. Come to think of it... I also noticed that my bottom bracket shell was coming loose soon after I returned from that ride.. unfortunately, I tightened that up at the same time I switched back to a fixed-gear rear hub. It is possible that the loose BB shell caused the clicking noise.
In any event, I now have ~2000 miles of trouble-free, moderately loaded touring on the hub and would say that it is excellent for touring in the midwest. I'd still be leery of using it to cross really mountainous areas, but bet it could be done.
Thanks for your interest!
#23
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I love the fact that you've kept this thread going for two years now. Shouldn't that hub have closer to 4000 miles on it after your latest tour?
At any rate, this is good info. I mostly commute, and I though an IGH might be a good way to go, but I have it in my head that I might occasionally want to tour, and I wondered if the hubs were really reliable for that. Obviously it's just one person's experience, but I'm glad to hear it's been a positive one.
At any rate, this is good info. I mostly commute, and I though an IGH might be a good way to go, but I have it in my head that I might occasionally want to tour, and I wondered if the hubs were really reliable for that. Obviously it's just one person's experience, but I'm glad to hear it's been a positive one.
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Any updates? This is the thread that refuses to die. This is just the setup I want for my light tourer/commuter.
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resurecting the lazarus thread for 2009!!!
Nice reviews! nice updates! nice pics!
i also have the SG-8R25 nexus 8 speed IGH on my folding tourer and it works great!
I am glad to inform I have done some pretty serious mountainson it in the highlands of Chiapas, Mexico and it performed just fine!
I wasnt very heavily loaded though and did have to really stand up and pump up the hardest bits (some near 50°/125% slopes!).
one simple solution for touring in mountains is to have 2 or 3 different cogs that you can swich up according to the terrain. This would reduce your top gear, but how high a gear do you need for loaded touring in the mountains?
Nice reviews! nice updates! nice pics!
i also have the SG-8R25 nexus 8 speed IGH on my folding tourer and it works great!
I am glad to inform I have done some pretty serious mountainson it in the highlands of Chiapas, Mexico and it performed just fine!
I wasnt very heavily loaded though and did have to really stand up and pump up the hardest bits (some near 50°/125% slopes!).
one simple solution for touring in mountains is to have 2 or 3 different cogs that you can swich up according to the terrain. This would reduce your top gear, but how high a gear do you need for loaded touring in the mountains?