Catnap 

One of my most prized road bikes is a 3Rensho Katana with Modeulo lugs - detailed here in this blog post and this thread. It came to me with a complete Dura Ace 7400 group in excellent condition. I love DA 7400: it's super reliable, easy to set up, and in my opinion has the best styling of any vintage indexed group. The problem is that I just can't seem to get comfortable on the hoods of the ST-7400 shifters.

The initial build as photographed was a 100mm stem with Nitto Mod.177 "Noodle" bars and an 80mm stem. I tried a longer stem earlier and it didn't work for me. The 80mm improved the feel, but still, my hands don't seem to fit right into the shape of the ST-7400s. I'm either riding higher on the hood, with my thumbs on the shift cables and leaving an empty space between my palms & the tops of the hoods, or I'm gripping the bars just behind the hoods.

This weekend, I switched to a 90mm stem and Nitto Mod. 174AA "Fairweather" bars. The Fairweathers are identical to the Noodles (same rearward sweep) but 20mm shallower. Essentially a blend of classic road bars with the shallow reach of modern bars. I tried the combo of the Fairweather bars and an 80mm stem on a different bike that had the same top-tube length (53cm) and the reach was too short; felt cramped. So I sized up to a 90mm stem. Essentially, the overall reach came in 10mm, since the bars were 20mm shorter but I swapped in a 90mm stem that's 10mm longer than my previous.

At first, the new setup felt better, but after 20 minutes of riding, I could feel my hands creeping up on the hoods again. Overall, my hands were still searching for a comfy spot to rest, instead of "locking in" the way they do with a properly fitted cockpit. As a comparison, my other bikes use Campy or SRAM shifters; both the first generation of 1990s Campy hoods and the later second generation early 2000s shape. I don't have any problems getting comfy with any of these three shifter designs.

Any advice / suggestions / perspectives to share? Is it possible that ST-7400 shifters have a shape that just doesn't "work" with my hands? I don't want to switch out the group on the bike, especially because I spent considerable effort and cost to have the cranks pantographed to match the stem and seatpost.

Steel Charlie

How the bar is tilted and where the lever bodies are positioned obviously makes the difference. And that's a massively adjustable system. If you are going for a "look" then functionality may suffer.

Classtime 

Rotate your bars down, get a longer stem (120), ride in the drops more.
Very Cool Looking Bike.

Catnap 

I installed the shifters using the standard techniques - use a steel ruler clamped the bottom of the handlebars and then line up the bottoms of the levers with the ruler. Then use a level to ensure the two shifters are equally positioned. I made one change, moving the shifters 5mm higher than lined up with the ruler. I do that on all my bikes to give a slightly more upright position without changing the outward appearance much. From there, I have rolled the bars upward and downward a few mm to find the right angle for my hands, but just can't seem to find it. To be clear, I've been messing with this setup for the better part of a year.

smd4

If you've been messing with everything for a year, I doubt you will ever find a comfortable position.

Switch to downtube shifters and 7402 brake levers.

reissue59

Funny, just completed a 7400 build on Raleigh International
i put bar tape pieces as padding under the hoods to even it out, making the more comfy.
also, a modern compact handlebar helps position the levers. Play with stem lenght also

jdawginsc 

Had the same issue. It looks weird but I angle the bars and placement of the levers until it aligns with where my hands naturally would be centered on the goods in a natural position. And my fingers are long enough that I can still brake and shift from the drops.

Campys take a bit more fiddling though riding the hoods positioning is easy-peasy.

genejockey 

ST-7400s seem to have a shorter body than later STIs, which can make them feel odd. I'd second the suggestion to go with a modern compact bar. I really like the Soma Highway One, with the lever tips set up using a straight edge aligned with the drops. But, if your hands creep FORWARD on the lever towards the cables, maybe your reach is the problem? I would think if reach was okay but you couldn't find a comfy spot for your hands you'd tend to slide back, onto the ramps.

Here's how I set the ST-7400s up on my Litespeed - this is with a Highway One bar, using a straight-edge to the bottom of the drops.



EDIT: Looking at your pic, the STIs seem to be past well past the flat portion of the bar, which will tilt your wrists down. Here, the flat ramp of the Highway One leads right into the ramp on the levers. No problem braking or shifting from drops or hoods.

Catnap 

Perhaps I should put the bike in a stationary trainer and roll the bars up & down until I find the optimal position. I'm fairly certain the stem length is dialed.

shoota 

I have this same issue. I just think these levers weren't meant for riding on the hoods as much as we do in modern times.

jdawginsc 

This is exactly what I figured out. It is less pronounced with early Campy brifters, but the Shimano ones seem to have been devised for predominance in the drops, while the Campys designed for a mixture of drops and hoods (thus the placement of the thumbshifter).

CV-6 

Invest in a fitting.

SSRI

look into the Highway One bar bars - it gives a better bar to hood transition with out dropping down to the hood.

Reynolds 531 

The noodle bars, and copies, force your elbows in OR extreme bend to your wrists. Either way hurts.

You can switch stems all day long, but it wont help.


Look around for Nitto 155

Polaris OBark

Level the saddle.

KCT1986

Yes, this is probably your best course of action.

If you want to maintain the classic 'look' of the bike/bar then you'll probably have to make some compromises. As others have mentioned, these early brifter aren't the most comfortable for riding on the hoods, especially if you have large hands.

This is how the ST-7400 was setup in 1991.



The angle of the brifters have changed over the years. Shimano began angling the brackets downward when they went to 10 speed. This made the ramp/bracket transition a little straighter. The curve of the bars that were common also changed. Bars went from a rounded 'V' to a more 'U' shape, that provided a better ramp.



Bars like the Highway One and other 'compact' bars took it further.

genejockey 

It's a Brooks. Apparently they work best nose up. Go figure.

Polaris OBark

I have many. I can't tolerate anything but level or slightly nose-down, and I am very non-aero.

Catnap 

surprising advice as I've ridden Noodles exclusively for the past decade and haven't had the issues you're describing.

As I read through this thread, beyond fit issues, there seems to be a consensus that ST-7400s weren't meant for a default position of hands-on-hoods. That, in itself, may be the validation I was looking for. The photo KCT1986 posted is a great reference. I'd be miserable with a cockpit like that, so perhaps I'm just trying to make these shifters fit in a way that they weren't designed to achieve.

regarding saddle angle, I prefer a slight rise to the nose. it helps keep my butt planted on the back of the saddle instead of inching up forwards, which causes numbness after a while.

KCT1986

These era brifters, and the brake levers that it replaced, were not conducive to 'resting' the hands on the bracket/shift mechanism. It works better if it is grabbed with the palms facing inwards or slightly down. Palm down positions are somewhat awkward.

Insidious C. 

My experience with older brifters is that a compact handlebar is necessary to get a the hoods nice and level on top. At the same time, I never liked the way the "hooks" felt on compact bars. For me, brifters force me into that compromise.

smd4

Nonsense. Riding on the hoods is a perfectly comfortable experience with 7402 levers.

mgopack42 

When I switched to the Soma Hyway one bars, I found that with the compactness of the bars, I had to ADD 30 mm to the stem to get the reach right! ill look for a picture if i can find one

shoota 

Here's about the best I could do, with Soma Hwy Ones.

Catnap 

shoota the DA aero levers' hoods do look a bit more comfy that the STIs, but I'm not interested in going to DT shifters on this bike.