Lance back in the News
12-20-18, 02:12 PM
#351
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What I can't understand is the number of apologists for such a ruthless man. He cared not a jot for the sport, his teammates, his fans, the lot. He consciously tried and succeeded for a while in pulling the wool over the eyes of the majority, whom he thoroughly used then let down.
I and many have a lot of time for the US. They are far less cynical then us "Europeans", as anybody who lives on this landmass filled with widely disparate peoples are called, and I can understand why a nation that saved them twice is so admired, albeit with a touch of cynicism. But to sanction the Armstrongs of this world, no, I and many others do not. Basically, he has helped break the belief in the European image of the US, if I can put it like that. I'm not saying, by the way, he has played the biggest part, but he comes close here in France. Next to one other person whom I cannot name, he has managed to destroy much of the dream that was America.
I and many have a lot of time for the US. They are far less cynical then us "Europeans", as anybody who lives on this landmass filled with widely disparate peoples are called, and I can understand why a nation that saved them twice is so admired, albeit with a touch of cynicism. But to sanction the Armstrongs of this world, no, I and many others do not. Basically, he has helped break the belief in the European image of the US, if I can put it like that. I'm not saying, by the way, he has played the biggest part, but he comes close here in France. Next to one other person whom I cannot name, he has managed to destroy much of the dream that was America.
12-20-18, 02:43 PM
#354
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https://s3.amazonaws.com/imm-usac-uat-bucket-16e9mh4tuo6kc/documents/Rules-Policies/USACycling_RuleBook_2018_03.pdf] https://s3.amazonaws.com/imm-usac-ua...ok_2018_03.pdf [/url]
https://www.uci.org/inside-uci/const...ns/regulations
12-20-18, 03:08 PM
#355
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Lance essentially settled the cases against him by pleading guilty to a fashion crime. Doping had gone out of fashion, for one rider from one country who pretty much dominated one event.
The machinations are that, one of the most irrelevant human being to humanity we've seen in our lifetimes (much like all of the Lance-haters on this thread) tested positive for doping after actually winning the Tour de France and quixotically sued Lance Armstrong for $100M because of it. Then, of all things, the USDA joined the case, essentially representing the USPTO as they decided they wanted their money back (odd, sure but a government bureaucracy was bankrolling the US cycling team). The case sort'a settled for pennies on the dollar (including others who joined in) because... no one was hurt-- Lance hadn't actually cost the plaintiffs anything-- he made'm money so, there were no damages. The government prosecutor of course had to exact his 'pound of flesh' (after all, it was illegal to do what every other rider was doing), the end result of which, as a part of the settlement, Lance is not allowed to ever compete in an event that involves a bicycle. Sounds insane but that's what defines the Lance-haters-- insane, over-the-top losers demanding retribution because Lance won too many TdFs.
The machinations are that, one of the most irrelevant human being to humanity we've seen in our lifetimes (much like all of the Lance-haters on this thread) tested positive for doping after actually winning the Tour de France and quixotically sued Lance Armstrong for $100M because of it. Then, of all things, the USDA joined the case, essentially representing the USPTO as they decided they wanted their money back (odd, sure but a government bureaucracy was bankrolling the US cycling team). The case sort'a settled for pennies on the dollar (including others who joined in) because... no one was hurt-- Lance hadn't actually cost the plaintiffs anything-- he made'm money so, there were no damages. The government prosecutor of course had to exact his 'pound of flesh' (after all, it was illegal to do what every other rider was doing), the end result of which, as a part of the settlement, Lance is not allowed to ever compete in an event that involves a bicycle. Sounds insane but that's what defines the Lance-haters-- insane, over-the-top losers demanding retribution because Lance won too many TdFs.
12-20-18, 03:45 PM
#356
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And I was expecting an argument. Good summary @McBTC
I think doping is coming back in fashion.
I think doping is coming back in fashion.
12-20-18, 05:26 PM
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What defines Lance apologists: slavering wanna-bes who worship an admitted cheater in a attempt to compensate for their own athletic and moral deficiencies.
12-20-18, 05:42 PM
#358
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Let’s watch posts that are insulting. Argue and debate all you want but don’t make it personal. Thnaks.
12-20-18, 07:47 PM
#359
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Well, there isn’t a lot of room for argument or debate re Armstrong’s case, since facts are facts. However, there is a lot of room for blind faith, apparently
12-20-18, 10:56 PM
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I see plenty of room. We are discussing what pro cycling is, and was and why USA isn't, and won't produce top performers, while when the juniors were the top. But something changed.
12-20-18, 11:02 PM
#361
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Yes, You were discussing that, most of the rest of us were trying to remain on topic.
How about creating a new thread where you can discuss your subject quite freely? I’m happy to create it for you, but, to be truthful, it isn’t a topic which holds much interest for me, not coming from the US.
How about creating a new thread where you can discuss your subject quite freely? I’m happy to create it for you, but, to be truthful, it isn’t a topic which holds much interest for me, not coming from the US.
12-20-18, 11:45 PM
#362
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Yes, You were discussing that, most of the rest of us were trying to remain on topic.
How about creating a new thread where you can discuss your subject quite freely? I’m happy to create it for you, but, to be truthful, it isn’t a topic which holds much interest for me, not coming from the US.
How about creating a new thread where you can discuss your subject quite freely? I’m happy to create it for you, but, to be truthful, it isn’t a topic which holds much interest for me, not coming from the US.
It isn't a topic that holds a lot of interest for me, either, and I do come from the US.
But I do like soccer.
12-21-18, 04:59 AM
#363
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You'd think anyone familiar with the rigors of the sport would appreciate the accomplishments enough to give the devil his due, especially when you consider that the more you look into it and the hate an rage, faulty logic and haughty hypocrisy, the example of Lance Armstrong is less like the devil more like Jesus paying for the sins of all professional cyclists.
12-21-18, 05:14 AM
#364
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12-21-18, 05:16 AM
#365
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@124Spider, Yes, that did sound condescending your honour ! There are similar debates, but more focussed on the race and local teams, here in France, although they tend to be closer to the time of the race and are usually more concerned with what is wrong with French cyclists - it has been a long time since a French rider won Le Tour, after all.
12-21-18, 05:27 PM
#368
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Just when I was sure your posts couldn't possibly get any more bizarre, you've outdone yourself, dismissing an entire country with a crude insult. Amazing; disturbing, but amazing.
12-21-18, 05:31 PM
#369
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Just a joke... avole has chased my arse all over this post and I don't ever respond in kind because I don't want it to be jerked off the web with complaints which usually are by those who start all the name calling...
12-21-18, 05:51 PM
#370
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To all of the 'holier than thou,' no one will ever know if LA would have been just as successful if he and all of his competitors were not taking performance enhancing measures. To single LA out says more about his accusers than his crime, which pretty much was winning 7 TdF's. If LA had hung up the bike at say... 5 wins, there never would have been a prosecution (persecution?).
I agree. This is a man with some deep seated psychological problems. He attributes his dysfunction to not having a father to teach him right from wrong.
12-21-18, 06:35 PM
#371
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According to Lance -- the haters hate him for 3 reasons: 1) doping, 2) lying about doping, 3) trying to destroy everyone that resisted the Lance dope train and Lance's narrative. As Lance says, many people will forgive 1 & 2, but many find 3 unforgivable.(Rogan Interview)...
Avole wondered earlier as to why people could defend him so strenuously. I think extreme love and hate are two sides of the same coin. There were/are a lot of aspiring American amateur and professional cyclists who slug their guts out for a chance at glory and along came Lance, who was very relatable as an every man underdog who worked hard and over came obstacles. Then he beat the Europeans at their own game definitively - hooray aren't we great!!! ... until it was shown to be based on a lie. And not just one lie but a whole series of lies within lies, denials and false accusations that he dragged all his loyal fans into with him. Then instead of Americans feeling great they were painted with the brush of being cheats. Then that strong nationalistic pride turned either to extreme anger at being duped or blind apologists who try to minimize or normalize what he did.
The truth is America was neither great or cheats because of Lance in the same way that fans do not win football games from the side lines.
I never related that closely to him and am not American so there is some distance to be a little objective. Yes, he was a very hard worker. Yes, he beat the other cheaters by perfecting the doping game. And yes, he cheated and should be banned/stripped of his victories. If that were all, like Landis or Pantani, I would say his debt is paid but he also was very mean and vindictive as stated in the previous post so, unless he took ownership and really demonstrated that that had changed, I would say that speaks to his base character more than being caught up in the events of the moment.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 12-21-18 at 06:49 PM.
12-21-18, 07:53 PM
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once falsified, it will never be trusted again. It is with me
12-21-18, 09:04 PM
#373
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This thread has run its course.
Closed.
Closed.
