ghettocruiser

They do indeed outsource builds, and most models are now made in asia. But as of 2006 the V10, VPfree, and Nomad were made (somewhere) in the United states. I haven't been keeping track since then.

evanatorx

was just discussing them on todays ride.......FUGLY!

MattP.

Pre 2007,　all VPP bikes (Blur, Nomad, VPF, V10) were made in Portland by SAPA. Their hardtails and single pivots were made overseas.

From what I have gathered, for 07, some VPP bikes will still be made in the states, but some will be made overseas just to keep up with demand.

If you want an American Made bike, steer away from SC for 07.

gwhunt23

Not always. Santa Cruz used to (not currently) make all of their bikes in the USA. I'll post a photo later of the etched "Made in USA" logo on my '02 Superlight.

I've always thought that single pivot bikes with a floating brake weren't meant for XC. What models did you have in mind? I could have missed something.

jm01

My wife's 2004 Blur is U.S. built...same factory that did Ellsworth until they moved to Washington

mtnbiker66

Random....... great input.

Al.canoe

These 72 reviewers, https://www.mtbr.com/reviews/xc_full_...t_123150.shtml , don't seem to have much of a problem with brake jack. The effect is determined by the pivot point height and the Superlight seems to have very good design.

Single pivots which effectively includes some that don't appear to be single pivots like Kona, are sure popular. The Canondales are popular in my area.

You are fortunate with your Specialized service.

Al

junkyard

Cah I get an explanation on what "brake jack" is?

jm01

https://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=35572

or

brake jack (that's the tendency for the rear suspension to compress when you brake hard)

mcoine

Brake jack is when the suspension gets compressed due to the torque on the wheel and suspension, while applying the brakes.

Can we just summarize this thread by saying Santa Cruz sucks?

Quick_Torch C5

Thirsty?

santiago

That's when the bike causes you to spill your latte and to get powdered sugar from your doughnuts all over your jersey.

(junkyard and I share the same type of mountain biking so I know how to explain it in terms he understands)

junkyard

Ahh. santiago always helps me understand the complexities of mountain biking.

Al.canoe

So, 72 happy owners are out to cover their mistaken purchase, some who've stuck with their mistake for 7 years. I get it now.

And, all those other single pivot owners like my son and my friends with Canondales, some on their second, they I guess are just plain stupid. Or, are Superlights just a bad single pivot design?

Hard to find opinions from totally non-vested interests. They sure do sell a lot of them.

Al

Quick_Torch C5

nice comeback...did your mom teach you that one?

BTW, i was referring to this (in jest)

Al.canoe

Possibly it's a skill issue. Brake jack might disorient some and not others.

I rode a hardtail for years. Is brake jack more of a liabilty than no suspension? How do those dirt motorcycle racers do it with a single pivot? Or is it just a bicycle "problem"?

The fact that they sell a lot of them means the word hasn't gotten out in the 10 years of production how dissatisfied these lying owners really are. Of course, that'll be a first with all these forums, web postings and just the word of mouth.

Bu the way, I believe it was among those "72" that one or two went from FSR to single pivot. They liked the climbing and the maintenace better. I guess they probably ride paved trails.

Al

dminor 

Full-floaters on dirt M/Cs have been standard for a couple decades. I remember when the concept was "discovered" and the flurry of retrofit kits that came out because of it.

Al.canoe

"Originally Posted by Al.canoe Possibly it's a skill issue. Brake jack might disorient some and not others."

I don't know anyone who finds brake jack to be disorienting. Nice hyperbole.

---

Then if you don't know them, they don't exist? Hyperbole? I'm not exaggerating a thing. You my friend are relying on evasion by accusing me of exaggeration.
--

"Originally Posted by Al.canoe I rode a hardtail for years."

Congrats! That's quite an accomplishment. So did I! I still do sometimes!

---

Hey, are you using hyperbole**********

---

"Originally Posted by Al.canoe Is brake jack more of a liability than no suspension?

The simple fact is that there are suspension systems that don't mimic a hardtail (brake jack) while braking in choppy conditions."

--

Yes there are and I'm riding one. It's likely the only one (FSR) since the other designs are single pivot with levers to change the shock action as the wheel moves in an arc. But I would be perfectly happy with the braking of my old hardtail with the "other" benefits of a full suspension. That is another "simple fact". Many appear to share that view.

---
"Originally Posted by Al.canoe The fact that they sell a lot of them means the word hasn't gotten out in the 10 years of production how dissatisfied these lying owners really are.

More sweet hyperbole!"

---

Evasive aren't you when you can't counter a valid point. In 10-years of production, the bad news would be well known. Therefore since they appear to be still selling very well (Colorado Cyclist is back-ordered for all sizes but small), then for most folks, the evil brake jack is not a big deal. Some of the "72 posters" come directly from hardtails and really like the climbing.

I liked my hardtail braking. Never did see a big advantage of my FSR in the braking department. Of course, I must not ride those really tough trails that you do. Hah!

You never dealt with the dirt motorcycle racers, or was that just more hyperbole?


Al

iwantakona

I think you missed the point pete. If the brake jack you speak of was a huge glaring issue then they would not sell as good as they do period. Simple math really, if your product sucks you sell few, you make zero dollars, you go out of bussiness in a few years. If it is only one model that sucks usually it gets dropped or redesigned. It may be that the bikes good qualities outweigh the bad one you described. No bike made is perfect and if it is perfect I'm sure it has a perfect price tag which in itself makes it less then perfect. The trick is to find the one that works for your needs and has shortcomings you can live with. If santa cruz is what he feels meets his needs let him make his own mistakes instead of argueing over why you are right.

iwantakona

Again pete you missed the point. The thread is asking about the quality of santa cruz bikes not input on suspension design. I think everything useful has been said and now it has turned into another pete can piss farther then you contests.

dminor 

...can piss farther than you...

iwantakona

Yes I'll admit I'm a bad speller.

Al.canoe

They are single pivot. It appears that the brake jack issue is much to do about nothing. I did not know what brake jack meant, but after your relatively non-informative and haughty posts, I understand why so many just don't care about brake jack. It's in the noise if it's like a hardtail.

I'll side with those who own the bikes. A big reason is that my experience with folks, many folks, is that the majority of owners will be honest and that includes assessing their own bikes. I'm a skeptic, but not a cynic.

Nor do I believe that people who don't agree with you are just ignorant, don't ride rough trails or just don't know any better, or even just have never ridden a single pivot. Riding a hardtail seems to be good enough on that last point. At least that's the best I can make out from your curt responses. If that's the best you can rationalize, then brake jack is definitely not an issue for the majority of reasonably skilled riders.


Al

iwantakona

Sounds to me like you've stated what you have to say and should just grow up and stop argueing over it. You could've discussed this all it needed to be discussed by saying "I do not care for that make and model of bike because it has a tendency to brake jack in rough terrain and that is why I prefer this bike." Your not discussing your looking for an arguement. Grow up.

As far as being dense I question anyone who sits for hours on end at a computer and argues about something ninety-nine percent of the population don't give a ***** about and really doesn't even matter. You answered the OP's question a long time ago. Anyone with half a brain knows in order to get good advice you have to look who it comes from. If johny n00b says one thing and three old timers say diffrent let the n00b say what he wants anyone with a brain knows the old timer is the one to listen to.

Al.canoe

You are arrogant. AND, the master of hyperbole. No credibility left as far as I'm concered.

Al