acidfast7

I'm quite polarising (hard to believe, I know).

Some staff have their tyres slashed. That's why I park at the front of the building with CCTV just in case.

Over here, degree classification can be a life-changing event and people get unhappy.

I-Like-To-Bike

It is also easy to inflate the costs of commuting/mile if the mathematics wizard bases his calculations on an assumption that all the durable bicycling equipment (bicycle, lights, helmet, lock, saddle, etc.) has to replaced every year and all the upfront costs for them must be paid out in full each and every year.

wphamilton

One set came with the bike, a pair of Rubino, a pair of Rubino II, bought on sale maybe $50-60 total.

Brake pads, I'd bought 4 sets on Amazon for $16 total, and included that in my total. One single speed chain $8.50. I also got a retractable cable lock at some point, $15. You see where I'm going with that - I basically don't spend anything on that bike.

I haven't had to replace the cog or cables, and no other maintenance has been needed, other than lubing the chain and greasing hubs. That's one of the things I like about that style of bike.

Sure, per commute is another way to look at it. I have 1376 commutes since buying the bike Dec '15 (10,604 miles), counting each way as one commute. I have to approximate that at least 80% of those were on the commuter fixed gear and the rest with my road bike, but I knocked that down to 75% to err on the conservative side and it came to about 35 cents per commute. That's an upper bound - it's likely closer to 90% and 27 cents per commute (54 cents per working day).

I don't know about rack damage. I doubt that anyone has touched my bikes other than picking one up if it fell over so I don't have that issue. But maintenance and repair costs since I've had it, less than $100. $277 up front, including bike (new), rack, fenders, lights, trunk bag, chain case, new saddle. It's easily under 5c/mile and will likely be 2 - 3 cents in another year or two, even if I replace the cog, bottom bracket and get new tires by then.

At current gas prices, driving the shortest route costs almost double my cycling per commute cost, in gasoline alone.

I-Like-To-Bike

It shouldn't be that difficult for acidfast7 to find a relatively inexpensive 3 speed or other type of IGH city bike fully equipped with sturdy fenders in England or anywhere else in Europe that would serve his commuting purposes quite well at a fraction of the costs he has run up.

The Raleigh Sports 3 speed that I bought new in Philadelphia in 1972 for $82 served quite well for years of commuting and pleasure riding in Philadelphia, Oregon, and Germany for me (estimated 20,000 miles) as well as a daily commuter for my daughter in Freiberg Germany where she abanded it after finishing her studies at the University in 2002. Still had original wheels (AKA "wheelsets"). Since it had indestructible coaster brakes the front brake pads never needed replacing.

The Vaterland 3 speed coaster city bike I bought new in Germany in 1999 for 400DM (approx. $200) was used for 3½ years of commuting and pleasure riding in Germany as well as about 15 years of pleasure riding in the U.S. and finally was put out to pasture last year due to corrosion of the frame after about 30,000 miles. Still had original "wheelset" and brakes.

The Ragazzi 7speed IGH city bike bought new in Germany in 2000 for 268DM was used for 10 years of all weather commuting in Iowa (approximately 50,000 miles) with the original "wheelset" and brakes.

Road surface conditions were about the same as those shown previously on acidfast7's post. Marathon (not Plus) tires were good for 15,000 miles on the front, 5,000 miles on the rear. Tubes never needed replacing since Patching is easy and sensible for someone who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.

jgwilliams

Well, I have several thoughts on this. First of all, comparing the cost of a hiking holiday vs. driving strikes me as pretty bonkers; I don't think most people taking hiking trips to save money.

Putting that aside, though, there's absolutely no way that the running costs of my car would be less than the bike. For starters, before I even get out of the drive way there's £600 of insurance and £200 of vehicle excise duty and £300 servicing costs every year, and the servicing doesn't include worn items such as the brake disks and pads that had to be replaced this year. That's a pretty decent bike right there.

We're fairly unusual in only having one car for our family but because of that it can't be a small car like a Civic (it's a Ford S-Max). All the same, we bought it seven years old and it's been quite economical to run. I estimate we do around 8,000 miles per annum at around 38 mpg (imperial), so that's 210 imperial gallons which is around 960 litres at £1.38 per litre - that's £1,320. So without any wear and tear my car is costing £2,420 per year. Man, I'd love to have that to spend on cycling. Then lets say that I keep the car twelve years, by which time it will be nearly twenty years old, and it's worth nothing at that time the depreciation will have added another £1,000 per year.

Add to that the fact that if I wasn't commuting by bike I'd have spent another £1,000+ on rail fares. In fact, if I didn't have a Brompton as well it would be even more as I almost never take the tube. I could probably walk from the rail terminus to work but I wouldn't want to do it both ways as I'd be a lot later home.

Now explain again how expensive my bike is, please.

Incidentally, I think this extra food when you're exercising is a bit of a red herring. When I cycle to work (36 mile round trip) my extra food consumption is fairly marginal - a few extra biscuits, perhaps, or a slice of fruit cake. What happens is that I lose weight, and I suspect this is the same for most people. I've also had the same hiking boots since 1974 so I don't really buy the wear and tear on boots and clothes either. Cycling clothes do wear out, of course, but I bought some decent short two years ago and they don't look like they're going to give up any time soon. I bought a new pair of tights and a winter jersey this year, but those are the first in many years. My shoes will need replacing soon but I've had those more than ten years. I could go on but you get the general picture. Yes, if I was someone who always wanted the latest and greatest thing then I might be able to spend more each year than the car costs but I'd really have to go some.

noglider 

You're right. I regret bringing it up.

acidfast7

Where are you located in Surrey? Are you commuting into London as 18 miles each way could get you very central from northern Surrey.

I think the real issue is that cycling is more expensive than people consider. However, UK rail prices are insane, although the quality is better than people make it out to be.

Also, I find that the UK roads are quite hard on tyres and that bike theft (at least in Portsmouth) is a very real thing, as is bike cannibalism.

acidfast7

OK. I challenge you to find me a UK-based bike with a price that would meet the criteria that you specify. Mine was £299, not the cheapest, but not crazy expensive either.

jgwilliams

My wheelset (Ksyrium Elite) did 20,000 miles of regular commuting into London. I'm sure it would have done a lot more except I got rear-ended this year and can no longer get the rims. My brake pads have done about the same and are only just in need of replacement. Decent tyres will do 4,000 miles or more, I find - I think cheap ones are a false economy. I regularly get over 1,000 miles between punctures, though I am finding patching is starting to be more trouble than it's worth so I tend to replace the inner tubes. Lighting is costly - again, not worth economising, I think - but it should last a good while. I actually don't need a lock for commuting as we're fortunate to have secure storage at work Finally, if you look after the chain and cassette I find they do pretty high mileage as well. I get around 10,000 miles from a chain and haven't yet had to replace the cassette.

acidfast7

I think if you look at my calculations, you will see that's not the case. You will see that my costs are very justified.

I would expect my lock to last 10 years, maybe longer before water ingress/lack of oiling causes it to seize (half of its life span is gone). Or until it's cut and the bike is stolen.

I would expect 10 years out of USB lights is reasonable. They've been turned on/off 1000 times so far and probably been through 200 battery cycles (I would expect 500 or so before the performance degrades.)

acidfast7

Like I've said many times. Over here most bikes die my accident/theft.

I agree on the tyres ... and I think the Schwalbe Marathons will give be about 3-4000 miles.

I bought nice lights, which is why my initial cost is high.

You'll have to replace the front cogs/cassette/chain as set as they've all worn together. That's how I'd do it anyway.

No lock? That's a pretty boring commute. Never go to the pub or in/out of a shop for groceries/coffee? Seems kinda crazy to me to limit oneself? No afterwork dinners/drinks with colleagues?

jgwilliams

Tadworth, in the Surrey Hills. I commute to just north of Oxford Street. 18 miles is ok, it's the 600ft climb going home that takes it out of me (I'm 62, by the way).

Yes, I agree that cycling isn't necessarily cheap, and I actually think it's getting harder to find good quality stuff at reasonable prices.

The UK roads are pretty awful with so many councils strapped for cash, but if you buy decent tyres they should do pretty well. I buy Conti GP 4 Season and I'd normally expect to get at least 4,000 miles out of them, barring incidents. I had to replace one this year that had only done 1,000 miles after an emergency stop took a chunk out of it, but that's the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad car tyres are cheaper, weight for weight, than bike tyres though. I hate to think how much new tyres for an S-Max would be otherwise.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about theft or cannibalism as we have secure storage at work.

acidfast7

A cheap chain results in a stolen bike at work. I see it once per month. No thanks (for me at least. Those thefts do result in my bike not getting stolen with my decent quality £35 D-lock.)

You're not in a bike heavy area (train station, bike rack at work, parked on the side of the street) where it gets banged/beat/messed with.

What happens to the 5c / mile when you include the cost of the bike itself?

acidfast7

I find that everything in the UK is getting more expensive (compared to Germany/Denmark/Sweden when average wage is considered), especially with housing/transport in the southeast.

The roads are miserable and I really under-estimated how bad they could be when I moved from Germany.

I actually find used cars/maintenance really cheap compared to Germany/US/Scandiland. A 3-year Golf with 6k miles for £9k. Sure!

jgwilliams

Not so. If you replace the chain before it's too worn then you don't need to replace the cassette. If you let it go too far then yes, but even then you shouldn't have to replace the chainrings. No wonder your costs are high.

After drinks are all within walking distance. And I do have a lock, I just don't need it for commuting. Actually, I'd much rather be at home with the family than going out for drinks with colleagues so I almost never do that anyway. When I go out for groceries I tend to walk or take the Brompton, which sometimes I lock up, sometimes take into the shop. Social cycling is confined to going out mountain biking with the church group at the weekend.

acidfast7

Sounds pretty solid for 60+.

As an outsider, what's up with this Brexit thing?

I-Like-To-Bike

If I spent more than 2 minutes Googling I am sure I could find more suitables choices for your commuting needs.

3speed coaster Dutch Roadster
https://www.bikester.co.uk/ortler-va...ck-380011.html

7speed IGH with coaster brake
https://www.bikester.co.uk/726926.html

I would replace the saddle with one more to my liking; otherwise all seem suited to the type of commuting you do with more gearing and better wet weather braking than your current choice.

I also assume that it would probably not be that difficult for you to find nearby to you a used Raleigh or other 3 speed English, Dutch, Danish or German 3 speed bike. After all they weren't all exported outside of England.

kingston 

I have a 2 mile round-trip commute to the train station in north-suburban Chicago through my relatively affluent neighborhood. Ideal conditions for very low cost per mile. However, I used the same bike and lock when I was younger and lived in the city which was obviously an urban environment. Same bike for over 25 years with literally zero maintenance costs. I don’t use lights or a helmet on my commute and never have. Even in the dark. There are streetlights, and I wear one of those reflective vests like construction workers wear.

jgwilliams

Oh no! Someone mentioned Brexit! I think basically we're screwed and everything the government is doing is making it worse. Don't ask me to make sense of it because I can't.

Perhaps