davestohler

hello all, first time poster. two questions... i am building a late 70s/early 80s motobecane grand touring (round badge) that belonged to my late brother. a cousin had the frame (unknown to me) and went and hacked off all the braze ons an cable guides to make it a lame fixed gear. he also ground off the rear derailleur hanger, which brings me to my first question...

i want this to be a geared bike again. what should i do? have something welded? is there a bolt on aftermarket thing? i don't really care about the cosmetics, but i will be doing lots of touring on this bike and don't want any static in the middle of nowhere.

the second question is with the bb. am i reading the only difference between french and swiss threading is the directionality of the threads? i really want to build this myself, but i'm sort of at a standstill. i don't want to put any more time into this if i can't get a new bottom bracket.

also, there is a 4 digit number stamped under the serial. is this a manufacture date? its 0280.

operator

First thing you should do is ask yourself if you really want to do this. Or if it would be better off to find a frame that hasn't been *****.

davestohler

yes, i want to do this. when he was alive, this bike was my brothers baby. want to put it back on the road. you know, sentimental value and all.

BCRider

You're going to REALLY want to restore this to make it worthwhile considering the damage done to it. First step would be to have the paint media blasted off but not before you use the frame to have a matching paint mixed up for later. The idea of fully stripping it first is due to all the silver-brazing you'll need to do to restore the frame properley. It's not worth trying to touch up THAT many spots. The various decals will also be an issue. Photograph them from lots of angles including flat on as possible so you can replicate them using a graphics program and have a sign shop reproduce them.

Source the brazeons you need from one of the frame parts suppliers. The derrailleur side dropout will be the tough one But with luck someone has the same item that you're after. With all the parts in your hand it's time to silver-braze the bits on in the proper positions. For the dropout you'll need to melt the bonding of the damaged dropout and yank it free. Following cleanup you'll need to braze the new dropout back into place. Obviously a frame jig or suitable home made replacement will be required so that it goes in nicely aligned to where it is supposed to be. After it's all done get the frame painted.

Of course all this is going to cost far, far more than the frame is worth. But I gather that within some sort of reason this isn't an issue for this project.

davestohler

the only thing i am concerned about is the rear derailleur hanger. nothing else is being reattached.

BCRider

The old Motobecane that I had used a one piece dropout and hanger. If your cousin cut the hanger away then there is no real option but to get a whole new dropout and have it brazed into place. There's always welding on a cut off hanger from some other dropout but unless you're willing to carve the metal to shape with various metal working tools to match the original then it seems as if you're doing a disservice to the intent of the project.

And if your goal is to restore the bike then why would you not want to replace all the brazeons that were removed? I'm sorry but this seems like the sort of thing that is worth doing right if you're going to do it at all. And that would mean a full on restoration. How will you make this look like it was without replacing the brazeons and cable stops?

Actually from re-reading your original post it sounds like you should just drop it and buy a bike of your own to ride since that seems to be more what you're after. That way you'll have current technology and parts and won't be restricted by the oddball french threadings or period correct parts that may cause problems.

Panthers007

Aside from needing to get a new hanger for the RD - not cheap - you also have to consider parts should the bottom-bracket need work. It's French - and French threaded BB's are not easy to replace. It will be a PITA. I'd respect my brother by hanging it, as is, in a place of prominence & respect. And get another bike/frame to work with. One that hasn't been butchered by some twit who would likely also butcher a Cinelli.

operator

Phil wood French cups, end thread.

roberth33tiger

Orange Velo has their own brand french threaded cartridge BB's

operator

Of dubious quality.

davestohler

i understand that this is not the smartest thing to take on. it may even be stupid. don't really care. fighting on the internet about it seems even more so. i am not doing a restore, i am doing a rebuild. i don't mind cable clamps. i have pretty much located or have lines out on all the parts i'll need, after some research i found the phil and vo bbs.

back to the subject...yes, my moto had the hanger mount on the drop until it met with an angle grinder. should i just have a new drop put on it? that is probably my best bet, right? what does a shop charge (ballpark) for that?

operator

A shop very likely do not have the facilities to do such a thing. Dropout replacement on a steel frame is a framebuilders domain.

davestohler

a FRAMEBUILDERS shop...

Panthers007

I didn't know Phil Wood made them! Thanks!

HillRider

+100. Unless the frame has tremendous sentimental value, you will spend far more time and money putting it into usable shape than by buying a new frame.

You will have to have all of the braze-ons and the drive side dropout replaced by a frame maker and a complete repaint. There are clamp-on cable guides and "claw-mount" rear derailleurs but, if you want a reliable touring frame, they are kludges at best.

Also, I wonder how much damage your cousin did to the frame tubes when he ground off the original fittings.

Finally, yes, French and Swill threading are the same except for directionality of the fixed cup threads. Both are obsolete these days. That said, a new frame will be English threaded and replacement bottom brackets will be available everywhere.

My recommendation; hang this frame on the wall as a decorator and memento and get something new to ride.

garage sale GT

I totally disagree with these guys. If you want a showroom stock restoration, then they are right, but you could easily get a humbler rear derailleur which clamped on.

They are usually used with bolt-on rear wheels but all you would need is a new axle and your bro's old track nuts to convert your wheel to bolt-on. I don't know if they require a solid axle, though, because there are models with a small retaining screw which fits into a nut which is shaped like the back of the dropout and retains the derailleur in position while letting the axle handle the clamping loads.

There are also cable clips.

I say put up with a few grams more weight, get a more basic rear derailleur, snap on the cable clamps and get some clamp-on shift levers, and bike away. Easy as pie.

garage sale GT

The pieces I mentioned would have a period correct, albeit not a showroom stock original, look.

JohnDThompson 

Replacement of the dropout would not be necessary to run a derailleur unless the OP objects to a bolt-on hanger claw. Clamp-on down tube shifter levers are also available. Both these are low-cost options to get the bike back on the road.

noglider 

A hanger claw is easy to add, though forged dropouts are thicker than stamped ones. If you do this, you may need to use an extra-long rear axle. It will take some trouble, but not too much expense.

Rather than having a hanger welded on, I would recommend having the rear dropouts replaced. While you're replacing the right, you might as well replace the left, so they match. Most bike shops don't do this, but there's one near me who can. Where are you?

Frame builders are not that common, but you can probably find one near you.

Guys, pay attention. His brother died, and our friend wants to rebuild the bike as a connection to his brother. Don't ask him to be rational about it. Just help him do this. For all we know, he's loaded with money.

Is your name really Dave Stohler? That's the name of the main character in Breaking Away, though I think they spelled it Stoller.

wrk101

+1 Cheapest option is a claw type hanger for the rear derailleur. Its really not that bad of an option, many older bikes used this style derailleur hanger, so it is period correct, just not model correct. Otherwise, have a frame builder replace both drop outs. Thats a pretty expensive option, will be nicer, but will it be that much nicer?

You will see a variety of vintage rebuilds on the C & V forum with claw hangers. That's what I would do. You will need a longer axle, which is not a big deal.

bluenote157

is this motobecane the one that is similar to the peugeot px-10 with nervex lugs and reynolds 531? just curious???

Some other things to consider. Once you find a bb that will work such as the velo, then you dont have to worry about locating cranks since it is square tapered...additionally the pedal problem falls off the radar. If you are intending on doing the cottered cranks/ french pedal threading, etc.. then its gonna get nasty.
Keep in mind that your headset will need to be french and that the stem/bars for this was the AVA branded murder stem that would break/snap apart. you can however use a 22.2mm quill stem and wrap a peice of sand paper around it to get it to 22mm steerer.

...oh.. i just reread the OP.. i dont know if all of what i said applies to mid 80s motobecane???