Kid's bike grip shifter rant....geeeezus
10-03-18, 07:19 PM
#26
Cycleway town
Kids bikes are terrible. My daughter's 12in wheel bike purchased for her 3rd birthday had brakes harder to pull than any of my bikes and i had to choose, fit and tune a more appropriate set.
Her current 16in wheel bike, also originally equipped with stabilisers, came with equally poor brakes that i've equally had to uprate.
I have plenty of adult kit in my spares bin - it looks like when i get her a 6-speed 20in wheel bike I'll be fitting 9-speed Deore XT gears and hydro brakes to it!
Her current 16in wheel bike, also originally equipped with stabilisers, came with equally poor brakes that i've equally had to uprate.
I have plenty of adult kit in my spares bin - it looks like when i get her a 6-speed 20in wheel bike I'll be fitting 9-speed Deore XT gears and hydro brakes to it!
10-03-18, 07:34 PM
#27
Cycleway town
Grip shifters have to be difficult to use, due to the cable being pulled around a 22.2mm handlebar. There's simply less leverage on the cable.
Shimano's RevoShift are considerably easier to use than Sram's GripShift, though you need bigger hands because Shimano tackled the issue with a broader grip.
Not only does the handlebar girth mean pulling harder on the cable against the derailleur's resistance, but the cable is easier for the derailleur to pull back, so the locating spring/ball for each speed position has to be tight.
Over-shifters have a lot of leverage, so they can have a weaker spring fitted (some have resistance variation). But they're out of popularity.
Shimano's RevoShift are considerably easier to use than Sram's GripShift, though you need bigger hands because Shimano tackled the issue with a broader grip.
Not only does the handlebar girth mean pulling harder on the cable against the derailleur's resistance, but the cable is easier for the derailleur to pull back, so the locating spring/ball for each speed position has to be tight.
Over-shifters have a lot of leverage, so they can have a weaker spring fitted (some have resistance variation). But they're out of popularity.
10-03-18, 09:09 PM
#29
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There's no reason why they should be hard to operate. The more common complaint is accidentally shifting when going over a bump (too easy to shift.) Like Retro says, make sure you get the right model - either Shimano-compatible or ESP. If you try to use an ESP shifter on a Shimano derailleur, the pull ratio will be wrong and yes it'll probably be hard to work.
10-04-18, 06:57 AM
#30
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Ok, this seems to be a total racket to me. Why is it the difference in cost from a crap grip shifter that many kids can't even comfortably turn, and a trigger, is about $200 worth of bike? Seriously? The parts are like $25 different. Half the combos of grip shifter and RD are totally unworkable for whatever size kid is riding a 20" bike. I'm looking for a younger kid, and had to return an REI coop bike as even for me as an adult going up the cassette from small to bigger cogs was stupid difficult. Then started looking for trigger shift, and holy WTF. It's ridiculous. We're talking $400 for a kids bike with triggers when my wife's Trek for $300 has trigger shifting. I'm at the point of buying a used CL bike and doing the conversion myself to save about $300. Why is this seem like such an industry wide stupidity thing? I had him try the wife's bike's shifters while I turned the pedals on the work stand and he could do it. Grip shift on the REI bike, nope.
10-04-18, 07:16 AM
#31
Senior Member
I have a niece in 5th grade as well. We rented bikes on a family vacation in Yellowstone. She didn't have too much of a problem with the grip shifters on that bike.
But for 6 or 7 or 8-year-olds the large grip diameter and poor mechanical advantage makes it very difficult. If you read through the responses here you'll see that I'm not the only one who has observed this.
The TX50 shifters (and most others) display the gear you're in right on the shifter. My daughter already knows that low numbers = easier/slower and high numbers = harder/faster. I don't think it'll take her long to get it once she has a shifter that she can actually work.
Last edited by clengman; 10-04-18 at 07:20 AM.
10-04-18, 08:49 AM
#32
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That said, they aren't great shifters but neither are the trigger shifters you find on most kids bikes.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
10-04-18, 09:09 AM
#33
Senior Member
best shifter ever!
10-06-18, 07:32 AM
#34
Cycleway town
Axed because of safety concerns apparently - yet has anyone ever heard of a kid being hurt by one?
Meanwhile kids are falling off bikes when they're struggling to change gear by other means..
Meanwhile kids are falling off bikes when they're struggling to change gear by other means..
10-06-18, 08:16 AM
#35
Junior Member
Folks have been complaining about the weight, quality and price of derailleur equipped bikes for kids for a long time. The reality is, that the market for high quality kids bikes is very small. In my opinion, a good way to deal with it is to modify an inexpensive bike with better quality components. Other folks have given their suggestions. Here's my suggestion: fit a 3 speed internally geared rear hub. Three gear rations are more than enough for most young riders and they can be shifted while stopped. Shifting while stopped is great when you're stopped at the bottom of a hill or on a small incline at a stop sign on the bike path. The downside of such a bike is that there is more weight in the rear.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
10-06-18, 10:59 AM
#36
Banned
My Typical suggestion, top of the bar thumb shifters,
can be turned like a faucet handle by small hands.
<guess> You got a bike from some big box store ,
based solely on low Price?
can be turned like a faucet handle by small hands.
<guess> You got a bike from some big box store ,
based solely on low Price?
10-06-18, 01:51 PM
#37
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My experience is that many children, and even some adults, lack the grip strength to operate a grip-shifter, particularly when maintenance has been neglected and no care has been taken to optimize cable routing (a common malady for department-store assembled bikes).
10-06-18, 07:21 PM
#38
Cycleway town
Folks have been complaining about the weight, quality and price of derailleur equipped bikes for kids for a long time. The reality is, that the market for high quality kids bikes is very small. In my opinion, a good way to deal with it is to modify an inexpensive bike with better quality components. Other folks have given their suggestions. Here's my suggestion: fit a 3 speed internally geared rear hub. Three gear rations are more than enough for most young riders and they can be shifted while stopped. Shifting while stopped is great when you're stopped at the bottom of a hill or on a small incline at a stop sign on the bike path. The downside of such a bike is that there is more weight in the rear.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
10-06-18, 07:32 PM
#39
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As long as the price point is $99.99 the bikes will continue to worsen. There don’t seem to be a lot of bikes any more like the Chopper or Stingray, tanks but quality built and reliable.
10-06-18, 07:56 PM
#40
Cycleway town
Cycling isn't such a big thing for kids these days, that's why they're all getting fat and we're all blaming sugar, and pumping them full of artificial sweeteners instead.
So there's less emphasis on interesting bikes, now - the emphasis is on expensive gaming. Indoors. On their asre.
Perhaps that's why the emphasis is also on 99.99.
So there's less emphasis on interesting bikes, now - the emphasis is on expensive gaming. Indoors. On their asre.
Perhaps that's why the emphasis is also on 99.99.
10-06-18, 08:24 PM
#41
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I can see in a catalog that Stingrays ranged from $52-87 in 1968. That's $375-627 in today dollars. $627 will do you pretty well at most bike companies.
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10-06-18, 08:57 PM
#42
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Cycling isn't such a big thing for kids these days, that's why they're all getting fat and we're all blaming sugar, and pumping them full of artificial sweeteners instead.
So there's less emphasis on interesting bikes, now - the emphasis is on expensive gaming. Indoors. On their asre.
Perhaps that's why the emphasis is also on 99.99.
So there's less emphasis on interesting bikes, now - the emphasis is on expensive gaming. Indoors. On their asre.
Perhaps that's why the emphasis is also on 99.99.
I think its inaccurate to claim quality kids bikes arent around as much now because the interest is in gaming.
for some, sure thats accurate. But hardly for all...or even most.
as for the obesity thing...it isnt only because kids don't ride bikes as much. That may be one of many reasons, but hardly the sold reason.
10-06-18, 09:10 PM
#43
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Folks have been complaining about the weight, quality and price of derailleur equipped bikes for kids for a long time. The reality is, that the market for high quality kids bikes is very small. In my opinion, a good way to deal with it is to modify an inexpensive bike with better quality components. Other folks have given their suggestions. Here's my suggestion: fit a 3 speed internally geared rear hub. Three gear rations are more than enough for most young riders and they can be shifted while stopped. Shifting while stopped is great when you're stopped at the bottom of a hill or on a small incline at a stop sign on the bike path. The downside of such a bike is that there is more weight in the rear.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
My children are grown and none have really embraced cycling even though we tried to make our family outings comfortable and enjoyable. Unfortunately, few children discover and enjoy cycling like many of us boomers did growing up in less fearful times by riding around the neighborhood with our friends, perhaps even to a local store or even to school. In the USA, those activities are very rare for young people. I hope you are able to find a way to make cycling a lifelong activity for your child.
I think I posted here about it when I did it.
Ah yes, here it is. https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...id-s-bike.html
10-07-18, 06:45 AM
#44
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[QUOTE=honcho;20602908Here's my suggestion: fit a 3 speed internally geared rear hub. Three gear ratios are more than enough for most young riders and they can be shifted while stopped.[/QUOTE]
I bought one recently w/that exact setup. It's a good idea, and works well. The distance between clicks is enough that kids don't overshoot like with seven-speed, and the Nexus shifter rotates easily enough for little hands.
I bought one recently w/that exact setup. It's a good idea, and works well. The distance between clicks is enough that kids don't overshoot like with seven-speed, and the Nexus shifter rotates easily enough for little hands.
10-07-18, 10:40 AM
#45
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Bull. Woom and Islabike both make extremely nice bikes for kids. And as for prices, see Darth Lefty’s post above. The Woom and Isla kids bikes are comparable to those prices in today’s money.
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10-07-18, 10:56 AM
#46
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How funny that you contradict my first post citing my second one! They are nice. They are not like a Stingray, or a Varsity. In most ways they are better to ride. They are maybe not better to own.
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10-08-18, 11:44 PM
#47
Rhapsodic Laviathan
The biggest hassle with swapping from grip shift to trigger is re-running the shift cable and readjusting it. I've had good luck with used shifters from a co-op, although they sometimes need to flushed with penetrating oil to loosen them . Alternatively you can get Microshift 7 or 8 speed triggers cheaply.
10-11-18, 09:09 AM
#48
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To clarify, these kids bikes in question affixed with the difficult shifters are in the $350 price range. The one we bought was $350 from REI.
It takes $500 or more to get the same bike into trigger shift. Woom or Frog essentially.
That's my point. This is NOT a $99 Target or Walmart bike.
I'm going to cruise CL for a name brand used bike at good price, and then strip it and make it what I want it to be.
I really wish mfgs could be pointed to topics like this and read it. $350 is a lot of dough for something that essentially doesn't even do what it was designed to do.
It takes $500 or more to get the same bike into trigger shift. Woom or Frog essentially.
That's my point. This is NOT a $99 Target or Walmart bike.
I'm going to cruise CL for a name brand used bike at good price, and then strip it and make it what I want it to be.
I really wish mfgs could be pointed to topics like this and read it. $350 is a lot of dough for something that essentially doesn't even do what it was designed to do.
10-11-18, 09:20 AM
#49
Banned
they are in Asia , and busy making things to ship to the West,
where people write to internet forums
on the company computer, instead of working..
where people write to internet forums
on the company computer, instead of working..
10-12-18, 07:01 PM
#50
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