How Do You Deal With Harassment?
#101
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Not in my book. I have zero patience for motorists who don't respect the lives and space of non-motorists.
#102
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Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.
If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.
-Matt
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The yelling sounded fairly extreme if the poster's throat was sore the following day. I don't like close passes either, but when it's all said and done, the driver did not hit him. And "close pass" is in the eye of the beholder. I know for myself, when I zone out and a car passes me when I'm not really thinking about it, it always seems closer than it is.
Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.
If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.
-Matt
Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.
If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.
-Matt
Sometimes, I follow CB HI's example and give the motorist an earful. Once a woman in a very unique car tailgated me, honked, passed very close and fast while shouting obscenities. I rode past her walking down her driveway to get her mail about a minute later and gave her an earful that left my throat raw the next day. Since I ride the same road as a commute once a week I've been passed by her twice since then. She now waits behind me patiently and passes me with a lot of room at an appropriate speed, with her windows up and her mouth shut.
Most times a harassing motorist/cyclist interaction is a moment in time with no post-script. The example is unique for me and is something that has really made an impact on my thinking.
Most times a harassing motorist/cyclist interaction is a moment in time with no post-script. The example is unique for me and is something that has really made an impact on my thinking.
Georgia law requires a driver to leave a “Safe Distance” when overtaking and passing a bicycle, with the term “Safe Distance” defined as meaning not less than three feet. (O.C.G.A. Sec. 40-6-56).
Simple assault. (a) A person commits the offense of simple assault when he or she either: (1) Attempts to commit a violent injury to the person of another; or. (2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury.
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#104
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Interesting psychology here, and it reminds me of one from years ago. I was getting close to home after a long ride, and passed a little T-intersection out in the country around here, and there was a white Toyota pick-up truck with 2 guys in it, that looked to be about high school seniors, at the stop sign as I passed by in front of them. I was dressed like a typical cyclist, with some brightly colored Nalini Euro-team stuff on, and one of them yelled something that rhymes with "faa-gut".
Well, I normally would've laughed it off and kept riding, but for some reason, I just wasn't in the mood to take any crap, so without thinking, I whipped the bike around, sat up in the saddle, riding back towards them, and held my hands up as if to say, "What, you got a problem? Well here I am".
Kinda surprisingly, they stomped the gas and beat feet up the road, without a word or a middle finger out the window, or anything.
Probably not my swiftest move, because that could've gone very differently !
Well, I normally would've laughed it off and kept riding, but for some reason, I just wasn't in the mood to take any crap, so without thinking, I whipped the bike around, sat up in the saddle, riding back towards them, and held my hands up as if to say, "What, you got a problem? Well here I am".
Kinda surprisingly, they stomped the gas and beat feet up the road, without a word or a middle finger out the window, or anything.
Probably not my swiftest move, because that could've gone very differently !
#105
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Here's my original post, since you are using it to create a situation that did not occur. It was not a close pass.
A close pass is not in the eye of the beholder. It is statutorily defined in Georgia, as the road I was on was 11 feet wide, her car (a late 90s Caramro) a little less than 7 feet wide, there was no legal way to make the pass. Her clearly communicated intent was to use her motor vehicle to threaten me. Her actions were well past the threshold for what Georgia requires for filing of a charge of simple assault. In this case I made a judgement call that her eventual apologetic tone and the long response time for a non-emergency (dispatch quoted as 1 hour), that this incident could be concluded without a police report. I still have the option to file a report as I have her information and reports for motor vehicle violations and misdemeanor assault have very low evidentiary thresholds due to their low enforcement/penalty status.
As always:
A close pass is not in the eye of the beholder. It is statutorily defined in Georgia, as the road I was on was 11 feet wide, her car (a late 90s Caramro) a little less than 7 feet wide, there was no legal way to make the pass. Her clearly communicated intent was to use her motor vehicle to threaten me. Her actions were well past the threshold for what Georgia requires for filing of a charge of simple assault. In this case I made a judgement call that her eventual apologetic tone and the long response time for a non-emergency (dispatch quoted as 1 hour), that this incident could be concluded without a police report. I still have the option to file a report as I have her information and reports for motor vehicle violations and misdemeanor assault have very low evidentiary thresholds due to their low enforcement/penalty status.
As always:
-Matt
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#106
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The yelling sounded fairly extreme if the poster's throat was sore the following day. I don't like close passes either, but when it's all said and done, the driver did not hit him. And "close pass" is in the eye of the beholder. I know for myself, when I zone out and a car passes me when I'm not really thinking about it, it always seems closer than it is.
Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.
If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.
Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.
If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.
#107
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a close pass is somewhat subjective, of course. anything more menacing or appearing to be deliberate, that's something else entirely. now, if anyone behaved threateningly towards me on my bike, i may well react as harshly as the poster of that response. now, if you arrived on the scene and witnessed me berating your wife, with all due respect, i would not care whether or not you were happy about it.
-Matt
#108
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Bottom line for this thread:
Harassment of a bicyclist is defined as whatever action a bicyclist says it is; any response that the "harassed" bicyclist thinks is an appropriate way to respond is considered appropriate by many BF posters; law enforcement officials as well as the alleged harasser may not share that view and may counter-respond in ways that the bicyclist may not like.
Harassment of a bicyclist is defined as whatever action a bicyclist says it is; any response that the "harassed" bicyclist thinks is an appropriate way to respond is considered appropriate by many BF posters; law enforcement officials as well as the alleged harasser may not share that view and may counter-respond in ways that the bicyclist may not like.
#109
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i was track standing at a stop sign on a surface street in my town waiting on traffic of a pretty busy cross street this morning, when i noticed someone pull up behind me. they were revving their engine and i could hear them saying something, but it didn't really register it was all directed at me until traffic cleared and i started to cross. he was in an old open-top jeep and turning onto the street i was stopped at and yelling profanities and telling me to get off the street. i offered up my middle finger and politely invited him to eat my butt hole and i could nearly see the steam shooting out of his ears. he was all over the road (due to looking back over his shoulder at me) and trying to get me to turn around and, i assume, have a more personal discussion about how he doesn't feel bicycles belong in the street, but i just laughed and went on my merry way to work.
this area is pretty rural and has a really bad meth problem. i'm not trying to make assumptions about the guy, but he looked like someone who could have used once or twice (a day), and i'm not really much of a fighter, so it's probably a good thing i kept going. it does, however, have me thinking. i'm wondering what i should do to protect myself in the future. i do lots of trail and single track riding out in the sticks around here, and plan on some weekend or longer bikepacking trips soon - while bears aren't really something to worry about in my area, i'm thinking it might be a good idea to have some bear spray on a quick release strap on my bars, just in case.
also thinking about dropping some money on one of those tail light camera jobs posted above. hmm
this area is pretty rural and has a really bad meth problem. i'm not trying to make assumptions about the guy, but he looked like someone who could have used once or twice (a day), and i'm not really much of a fighter, so it's probably a good thing i kept going. it does, however, have me thinking. i'm wondering what i should do to protect myself in the future. i do lots of trail and single track riding out in the sticks around here, and plan on some weekend or longer bikepacking trips soon - while bears aren't really something to worry about in my area, i'm thinking it might be a good idea to have some bear spray on a quick release strap on my bars, just in case.
also thinking about dropping some money on one of those tail light camera jobs posted above. hmm
#110
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All l am saying is, taking up more of the road then necessary to stay safe, causes road rage. lt is no different then driving in the left lane at the speed limit. Or people walking side by side, from one side of the bike path to the other, believing it is their right.
More has been accomplished in the world with cooperation than with conflict.
More has been accomplished in the world with cooperation than with conflict.
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#111
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Bottom line for this thread:
Harassment of a bicyclist is defined as whatever action a bicyclist says it is; any response that the "harassed" bicyclist thinks is an appropriate way to respond is considered appropriate by many BF posters; law enforcement officials as well as the alleged harasser may not share that view and may counter-respond in ways that the bicyclist may not like.
Harassment of a bicyclist is defined as whatever action a bicyclist says it is; any response that the "harassed" bicyclist thinks is an appropriate way to respond is considered appropriate by many BF posters; law enforcement officials as well as the alleged harasser may not share that view and may counter-respond in ways that the bicyclist may not like.
#112
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Why don't you enlighten us with what you do or don't consider harassment and how you do or don't respond to it instead of engaging in your umpteenth "tsk tsk" post? Frankly, I have no idea why you think your observations of what's wrong with BF posters is supposed to interest anyone, it's just basic trolling without purpose.
#113
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Read post https://www.bikeforums.net/21064868-post111.html for enlightenment if you should so choose; or continue to snipe/snark away at posters who don't meet your approval, or at posts in which YOU claim YOU are not interested.
You are, however, an excellent troll. I will give you that.
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#115
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OK, I did not read through this whole tread, since I had a thread about this same subject 5 or so years ago.... and... this is my SOLUTION... every time someone does something you think is in-appropriate/dangerous to you personally, passing you too close, cutting you off, opening the passenger door to scare you, or even just passing you within a foot and leaving a foot or two towards the centre line... I say this to myself... I Hope you have a bad day, (to myself) like we both would have had, if you would have miss-judged your maneuver, just a little bit/a weeee bit to much and bumped me into the ditch... I say that EVERY time someone pisses me off/scares me...
BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, … and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...
BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, … and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...
#116
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OK, I did not read through this whole tread, since I had a thread about this same subject 5 or so years ago.... and... this is my SOLUTION... every time someone does something you think is in-appropriate/dangerous to you personally.. I say this to myself... I Hope you have a bad day, (to myself) like we both would have had, if you would have miss-judged your maneuver, just a little bit/a weeee bit to much and bumped me into the ditch... I say that EVERY time someone pisses me off/scares me...
BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, … and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...
BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, … and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...
Do you ever confront bad drivers?
…How to get the message out? I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week.
…How to get the message out? I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week.
I always think those self-absorbed cagers are only restrained by the thought of scratching their cars, or the hassle of filing police reports.
My only satisfactory retribution is to give them my previously-described Bicyclist Curse. (I repeatedly jab my pointed right index finger in their direction, while shouting an accusatory, ”You, you, you…”). The possibility of metaphysical retribution is more satisfying than the middle finger.
I do also bestow Bicyclist Blessings on drivers who show even a modicum of respect, with a wave of the hand….
My only satisfactory retribution is to give them my previously-described Bicyclist Curse. (I repeatedly jab my pointed right index finger in their direction, while shouting an accusatory, ”You, you, you…”). The possibility of metaphysical retribution is more satisfying than the middle finger.
I do also bestow Bicyclist Blessings on drivers who show even a modicum of respect, with a wave of the hand….
i tell good drivers they will be blessed by the Pope of Boyleston Avenue.
...So, @Maelochs, tell the bad drivers, woe unto them, for they shall be cursed by the Pope of Boylston Street.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boylston_Street
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boylston_Street
#117
Senior Member
Don't respond to harrassers. Don't feed the trolls. They'll only come back with snarky remarks making them sound like a broken record.
Last edited by Daniel4; 08-10-19 at 01:18 PM.
#119
Senior Member
the other day, someone honked at me, so i slowed down and made them miss the light. if they had just been patient, i wouldve been out of their way soon and they wouldve made it.
#120
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Although I do sometimes have something to say to mouthy drivers, for the most part I just let the verbal harassment go. Buzz me or endanger me, and I will engage you. I have motioned for people to come back to discuss their actions with me. Only one ever took me up on it, and he apologized. Make no mistake about it, I am not a badass. I have had 5 shoulder surgeries and have half an artificial shoulder joint right now. Combing my hair is a challenge. I just don't suffer threats casually.
I rarely have any issues though. I ride respectfully and choose my roads and my times on those roads carefully.
I rarely have any issues though. I ride respectfully and choose my roads and my times on those roads carefully.
#121
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1) Thanks buegelfrei for the text of the Berkley law, I sent that to each of my city councilors!
2) I think one way to defuse drivers is not give them anything to steam about. How many of us run stop signs? Don't do it, it gives them something to fume about (and chastise others that do, as drivers may take it out on you).
3) Further to gain favor with drivers obey all the laws and be polite, don't weave in and out of traffic or get in drivers way if easily avoidable. On some mountain road climbs I have stopped and pulled over to let cars pass.
4) I also try to help drivers. At an intersection, I get out of the right turn lane so drivers can turn right. Often a car will be a car length back, and especially if I notice they have the right blinker on, will motion for them to come on up and make their turn. I believe this builds good will.
5) If you do get into a conversation about not being on the street, and should be on the sidewalk, I point out at least here in New Mexico, metropolitan roads maintenance does NOT come from gas taxes, but property taxes, and I do pay my share of those. I ask how much they pay in property taxes (most low lifes are probably renters (spam me for making assumptions if you want) and I didn't say renters were low lifes). I remind drivers of that, and ask where is it posted no bicycles on this stretch.
One of my most confusing incidents was with a motorcycle. I thought motorcyclist and cyclist were in this together against idiotic car drivers. But once the passenger on a motocycle held out his right hand and thumped the back of my head real hard.
Stay safe my friends, we're no match to a car.
2) I think one way to defuse drivers is not give them anything to steam about. How many of us run stop signs? Don't do it, it gives them something to fume about (and chastise others that do, as drivers may take it out on you).
3) Further to gain favor with drivers obey all the laws and be polite, don't weave in and out of traffic or get in drivers way if easily avoidable. On some mountain road climbs I have stopped and pulled over to let cars pass.
4) I also try to help drivers. At an intersection, I get out of the right turn lane so drivers can turn right. Often a car will be a car length back, and especially if I notice they have the right blinker on, will motion for them to come on up and make their turn. I believe this builds good will.
5) If you do get into a conversation about not being on the street, and should be on the sidewalk, I point out at least here in New Mexico, metropolitan roads maintenance does NOT come from gas taxes, but property taxes, and I do pay my share of those. I ask how much they pay in property taxes (most low lifes are probably renters (spam me for making assumptions if you want) and I didn't say renters were low lifes). I remind drivers of that, and ask where is it posted no bicycles on this stretch.
One of my most confusing incidents was with a motorcycle. I thought motorcyclist and cyclist were in this together against idiotic car drivers. But once the passenger on a motocycle held out his right hand and thumped the back of my head real hard.
Stay safe my friends, we're no match to a car.
I absolutely work cooperatively with traffic when I bicycle. There are times I'll pull off the road to let traffic by if I need to. I am always looking to mesh with motor vehicle traffic as seamlessly as I safely can. I do it when I drive too. I even do it when I walk.
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#122
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Luckily I've never had much problem with harassment. I live in the Midwest in a rural area, and you'd think that the guys driving jacked-up pickups with huge mud tires would have little regard for cyclists. But generally everyone who passes me gives me plenty of room.
Only once would I consider myself to ever been "harassed," and that was once near the 4th of July when a couple of kids in a pickup threw a firecracker at me. Don't know if they were trying to scare me into wrecking or what, but it'll take a little more than a firecracker to make me lose control.
Only once would I consider myself to ever been "harassed," and that was once near the 4th of July when a couple of kids in a pickup threw a firecracker at me. Don't know if they were trying to scare me into wrecking or what, but it'll take a little more than a firecracker to make me lose control.
#123
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On the flip side I always make sure to give a nice little thank you wave to drivers who acknowledge me and wait to pull out from a side street in front of me.
Not the drivers that do weird **** just because they see a bike though. Just the courteous ones with what you can tell is a little extra bicycle awareness
Not the drivers that do weird **** just because they see a bike though. Just the courteous ones with what you can tell is a little extra bicycle awareness
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#124
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Like downhillmaster, I wave, smile, and mouth "thank you!" to drivers who go out of their way to be courteous to me. And most motorists are reasonable and even courteous. I have also, on one or two occasions, chased down a motorist in order to apologize after I've done something boneheaded. I think we need to help create positive feelings towards cyclists.
I have only been harassed once or twice; more common is the motorist who endangers me through inattention or the mistaken belief that cars always have the right-of-way over bikes and even pedestrians. With such people, I'm not sure that calm logic will ever make a dent.
I did once chase down a woman who, in just one intersection, managed to endanger my wife twice while executing a turn. After catching her in her driveway, I explained just how much she'd be liable for in the event of a wrongful death lawsuit -- basically, the present value of my young (and very well-educated) wife's lifetime earnings stream. After running through the 'back of the envelope' calculations aloud, I asked if she had a couple million bucks in the bank - or at least that much insurance coverage. "Well, no...." was the answer.
I have only been harassed once or twice; more common is the motorist who endangers me through inattention or the mistaken belief that cars always have the right-of-way over bikes and even pedestrians. With such people, I'm not sure that calm logic will ever make a dent.
I did once chase down a woman who, in just one intersection, managed to endanger my wife twice while executing a turn. After catching her in her driveway, I explained just how much she'd be liable for in the event of a wrongful death lawsuit -- basically, the present value of my young (and very well-educated) wife's lifetime earnings stream. After running through the 'back of the envelope' calculations aloud, I asked if she had a couple million bucks in the bank - or at least that much insurance coverage. "Well, no...." was the answer.
#125
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While riding this past Sunday a young kid and his gf buzzed by me blaring their horn and shouting at me to get off the road. About a 1/4 mile up they had to wait at a stop sign so I caught up to them. I switched lanes and as I slowly rolled past his open driver side window I told him his gf is a skank.
The gutless punk didn’t even pull over.
The youth of today is in pretty bad shape
The gutless punk didn’t even pull over.
The youth of today is in pretty bad shape