jonny7

I am reassembling a very nice 531 Reynolds bike which I bought completely stripped. It it fully equipped with Campy Nuovo Record (OEM), circa 1973-4. I am putting the last touch to the bike and I just can’t seem to secure the seatpost in the seattube. It looks like I would need a 26.8 SP when I actually have a 26.6. These are however the original parts. There must be something I am missing here. The only unusual thing I am noticing is the binder bolt which seems to have been cut so as to allow someone to hold it in place with pliers. Could this hint at some kind of trick that would have been used in the past to tighten the seatbolt? Is it a mere lack of respect towards Campy hardware? What then could I do to hold the SP in place? Put a spacer at the end of the bolt? I’m guessing there must be a cheat code here since the parts used to be on this bike.

droppedandlost 

someone wanted to put a wrench on it. the "teeth" were probably stripped and the bolt was spinning and couldn't be tightened.

the seatlug ears are seriously deformed, something isn't right.

juvela

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pillar clearly too small for opening

attempts to tighten binder have deformed seat lug

suggest to begin with a ream - not to enlarge opening but to get it round so it will smoothly accept the intended size pillar

next order of business is to reform seat lug

would be great if you were going to paint then you could have a framebuilder add reinforcement to the interior of the binder ears


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Mr. 66

Looks like it could stand to try 27.2, What is this bike?

jonny7

A fantastic CCM Tour du Canada - one of the rare years when it was a high end bike. The bike is in remarkable condition, except for the shown area.

gaucho777 

Yeah, those seatlug ears look jacked up. The previous owner appears to have made flats for using a wrench (and damaged the paint in that area), though the grooves in the seat binder bolt were intended to keep that side fixed while adjusting the other end. Clearly bottomed out on a too-small post. I'm also struck by the apparent gap at the bottom of the vertical cutout. It looks like the seat post has been cut very short just a couple of inches below the top of the seat tube. If that's the case, such a short post is probably not safe as it may damage the frame and obviates any original limit lines on the post. Or maybe the post is just pulled up way too high in the frame?

jonny7

Yes, this puzzles me, almost even more. The seatpost is 8cm. Why in the world would someone cut it so short? To cut weight? I mean, this is a very nice bike, but it's not a sub 20 bike!

noobinsf 

Yup, I think saving weight is the driver behind such, erm, behavior. The previous owner was a butcher; the bike is in better hands now...

merziac

That whole clamp area, bolt and post have taken a beating. That post is most likely too small despite seeming original or correct, it is likely neither.

The ears are touching so the clamp is not going to hold. That means the post is to small or the ST is too big, it is likely out of round, mangled, distorted and won't except the proper size post.

It may take a framebuilder to make it right.

jonny7

I've managed to fit in a 27.0 that I had lying around, a bit tight but didn't have to apply excessive force.

SurferRosa

Sacrilege!

You're welcome, everyone!

​​​​​​On my seatpost bolts, I use a tiny little 5mm allen key that was bundled with an Ikea desk. Not even 2" long. That's all that's ever needed!

bamboobike4

The binder bolt is from a quill stem clamp, or could be in backwards.
I’m leaning towards it being a quill stem clamp bolt, as the flat edges generally fit against a lip on the back of a stem clamp.

It was likely used because the seat post binder bolt was too long, or missing.
Too long makes sense, as the seat post diameter is too small for a proper fit.
The post is also too short, which supports it being the wrong seat post altogether.

Someone tried to “make it work,” albeit on a level below the craftsmanship often evident here in C&V.

Retoocs

The binder bolt is probably in backwards. If you flip it around, I bet the serrations fit in nicely.

jonny7

You're actually right here, but this way around makes the binder bolt even longer. When the serrations fit in the frame, there is just no way to tighten the seatpost. Then again maybe this hints at the real problem?

Pcampeau

The half with the cut off portions is Campagnolo. No doubt the Campy bolt snapped (they are not very resilient and are easy to break even while being careful) when trying to over tighten it, now it looks like you may have an odd piece of hardware inserted that’s too long.

merziac

When did Campy make stem bolts?

merziac

Never

T-Mar

The TdC were originally fitted with 27.0 seat pillars, as CCM spec'd the heavier (19/22 gauge) Reynolds 531, single butted, seat tube. CCM also saved a few pennies by using the shorter (13cm) Campagnolo Record seat pillar. We routinely had to replace them with the 18cm version, to achieve a proper fit for customers. However, if it is only 8cm, then it has been cut.

As previously noted, it was a fairly common practice to cut the pillar to eliminate weight. You set your saddle height, then marked the pillar at the top of the seat tube, removed it and cut it so that you only had 2" in the frame. Some aggressive cyclists would cut it even shorter, so that the bottom of the pillar extended just below the cinch slot. The latter appears to have been the case in this situation, with the slight gap probably due to a readjustment, possibly a new saddle with a slightly different height. The OEM saddle would have been a Cinelli Unicanitor.

As noted by gaucho777, the flats were filed/cut into the knurled, female end of the bolt to allow a purchase with an open end wrench and prevent it from spinning. Normally, the knurled end would be on the non-drive side. This way, when standing behind the saddle, the tighterning is performed with the dominant, right hand. However, it could be argued that this should be reversed with a Campagnolo cinch bolts, due to their low elastcity and and high failure rate. As suggested by SurferRosa, one solution is to use a shorter Allen wrench, which reduces the torque.

It's not to often that hear "fantastic" and "CCM" in the same sentence, even for the top of the line TdC. Note how they didn't bother to drill a stress relief hole at the bottom of the cinch slot. I'm also suprised to hear that it came with a full (Nuovo) Record group. Typically, they came with Universal 68 side-pull brakes, as the Campagnolo Record brakset was ridiculously expensive. Also, I suspect that it has already been the subject of a repaint. While there were some years where the colour was custom, the standard colour was purple.

bamboobike4

I missed the Campy lettering on the binder bolt, cataracts being what they are.
The serrated side is common on many stem clamp bolts, and some have the flat-sided end that tucks up behind and under the bar.
My mistake.

That being said, every Campy binder bolt I've ever tried (3) snapped at initial tightening.
I'm surprised this one didn't, as well, especially pulling on the ears like that.

jonny7

I was hoping you'd chime in! I'll be on the hunt for a Campagnol 27.0 seatpost then.

unworthy1

I have a Gipiemme seatpost bolt that appears to have been made with the flats OEM, at least always looked like this to me, and I certainly did not grind or file any flats and there's chrome plating on those surfaces.
I assumed it was to "interlock" with some specific seat lug ear cause flats are on the female side with serrations, not the male end with the full head and the GPM Italy marking.
But sure it COULD be used with a spanner, it's exactly 10mm flat-to-flat.

If this was originally a STEM bolt: did GPM ever make stems?

merziac

Well, I've never snapped one, knock wood and I get it, we're in the can't see s**t and too old, tired to give one either, to our ever increasing detriment.

If they are too close to spec when a frame is made, they end up "bottoming out" when the seatlug binder clamp wears in as they usually do especially when a ham fist comes along and makes things worse.

The post starts slipping, somebody leans in and snap goes the bolt.

Several things I do are anti seize on the bolt as I have seen others snap it from binding of the threads when they are not bottomed out, clean the ST and post for a good fit and assessment whether the post may be too small, carbon paste and as a very last resort I grind the female side down to allow more tightening when all else fails.

Its not rocket surgery but it is a PITA when you have to do a deep dive on something that should have been correct from the beginning and handled correctly along the way.

Mad Honk 

Jonny7,
If you have the top parts for the two pin seat post I have an orphan Campy 27.0 post. Standard length so you might need to do a ream to clean the tube and get the fit correct. Lemme know, MH

Mad Honk 

Well jonny7 has replied and asked for pics; so here they are:

Mad Honk uses 3m wheel to remove some pitting in the post

Putting final touches on the satin finish

Cleaned and ready for inspection

A little hard to read but it is stamped 27

The bottom of the world logo is very light but can still be seen on close inspection
I put a digital caliper on the post and it reads 26.95 with a reading of 26.93 where I was bit aggressive with the corrosion on the bottom of the post. It is a full insertion length post, so the tubes likely will need to be reamed to get the tubing ID corrected to 27.0 size. Lemme know if this is what you are looking for. Smiles, MH

The golf club head refinishing tools help a bit in cleaning some of these bits up. The disclaimer is that the wheel used is pretty hefty pricewise and would be costly for just a few uses. Mine is over 30 years old and has paid for itself many times. About five minutes of polishing work to clean and give the satin finish to the aluminum post.