hobkirk

So "Polarized training has greater impact on key endurance variables than threshold, high intensity, or high volume training. LINK"

I don't want to hire a coach. I don't want to work my tail off like pro racers do. But is it possible for a "regular Joe" to benefit? (My "regular Joe" does 3-5 rides a week, 20-50 miles each almost everything in Zones 2 & 3)

• Stop riding almost everything in Zones 2 & 3 and ride almost all rides in Zone 1
  • I have little experience, but I did manage to do a ride almost entirely in Zone 1 and it certainly was vastly less taxing - the 5-7% lower AHR made a huge difference
• But 1-2 times per week do a variety of intervals (including hills)? Followed by a rest day...
• And once a week do a social ride in Zone 2/3, of course!

OldTryGuy

Hope I'm not being too nosey, but what exactly are you hoping to achieve, meaning improve upon? Where are you now in riding capabilities and where would you like to be? Training for an event or just to improve?

I have never used a training plan in my life and I often wonder, what if I had employed some sort of regimented training plan where would I be in my abilities right now and would those abilities be vastly different.

hobkirk

• Faster - it's been very hard to go over 17 mph on flat ground
  • I've had a new hip [accident] and knee [worn out] and have just started riding again [13 rides so far], so my numbers are low, but they are pretty close to my "normal"
• Stronger - hills kill (235# = huge problem, coming down, but still...) - I track feet of ascent per mile -
  • Under 30'/mile = 15.3 mph average
  • < 40 & <50 = 14.1 (quite a drop for so little hill, IMO)
  • <60 = 13.3
  • <70 = 12.5
  • <80 & <90 = 11.8
  • <100 & <110 = 11.2
  • <120 & <130 = 10.3
  • <140 & <150 = 8.8

GravelMN

I find riding in Zone 1 painfully slow and actually uncomfortable. To stay in Zone 1 I have to watch myself constantly and force myself to slow down. The second I'm not focused on holding back, I'm well into Zone 2+. The only rides where a significant amount of time is spent in Zone 1 are the ones with my grandchildren. My kick-back recovery rides are in Zone 2 flirting with Zone 3 from time to time. I can't imagine any benefit from intentionally riding slower than that. A 2 to 3 hour ride in Zone 2 is refreshing and I don't find it taxing at all. I'm making good progress this year and here is what I shoot for in the average week:

2 or 3 recovery/recreational rides of 20-50 miles in Zone 2/3
1 or 2 LSD of 50-100 miles in Zone 3/4
1 interval/hill repeat/sprint training ride alternating between Zone 2 and Zone 4/5

Dave Cutter

I was thinking about this same thing just the other day.

I think we all need a "coach" or some sort... even if it's just a friend or family member that cares about your health and fitness, and can be honest about your performance.

I don't know you. But my honest advice (if I understand your question correctly) is... just ride lots. With only 13 rides under your belt... whether new or returning to cycling... don't set any formal "goals" yet. Just ride. Enjoy the sun, the weather, the scenery, the joys of riding a bicycle. Allow yourself to make cycling a habit. Remember to smile (it helps filter out the bugs).

Once you realize that you're not your normal happy self... if you can't get out on the bike... you're making progress. Groom your cycling skills before you even think about improving your performance skills.

gregf83 

Be careful with the zone definitions. My guess is that most of your riding is already at a low intensity as defined in that study which is a HR inducing a lactate level less than 2 mmol/L.

Polarized training would certainly work but I suspect may be more difficult to maintain on a consistent basis. Give it a try!

OldTryGuy

Time will be your friend but patience has to be your partner.

My power has come from riding with guys faster than myself, easy at first, and miles on my own. 15 years off the bike I restarted slowly. Crash in 2011 kept me off for 16 weeks then again easy back on doing drafting for faster riding than capable on my own. The longer-faster riding really helped since I was able to reach higher HR and exertion levels. Rode to a ride, rode with the group, rode back home with some added miles. On my own I never went SLOOOOOW but never fast either. Made sure I was pumping blood at a good rate but not excessive.

Time is not on our side as far as age, 65 next month, but having the time to ride can be if not working. Not working but unlike the guys I ride with, I only ride 2 to 3 times a week. The guys are always out. Tall Tom has 7,000 miles this year and he's 67, me, 2,000. Last year this time 4,000. Group rides are 32 to 42 miles with extra to and from. The average speeds are 21.5 to 24mph. Basically non stop fun stuff with a sprint or two that I can not partake in because of 2 bad knees and no leg power.

Better times ahead are only miles away.

hobkirk

On point, good info. But how much does "polarization" matter? I think you are doing (as I do) almost all your riding in the moderate zone. Also:

• Wouldn't your LSD ride be Zone 2/3? I find my long rides don't raise my HR much (although my legs [and butt] get more sore).

Thanks

hobkirk

Yes, I am rushing things, but that's my nature. And when my interest get piqued, I like to explore the subject.

I started riding ​exactly 5 years ago today, but I have sufficient experience (and data) to have a feel for this stuff. Also, FWIW, I rode 240 miles (8 rides, 2 of which were club rides) in the last two weeks after two weeks ramping up (total 5 rides, 115 miles).

Dave Cutter

The guys in the commuting forums hate it when I post this but.... cycling is a sport. The great thing about sports is they educate us, train us, test us, and we become better for and because of the sport. We learn to pull back to control our impulses.... and to push forward past our fears.

For me. Learning to simply enjoy the sport with no exact or specific benefit.... has changed me.

rm -rf

Back in January and Feb (a 50F day!), I did a few Zone 1 rides of 40 miles, longer than my other early spring rides. It was interesting keeping the slow steady pace (around 13 mph with rolling hills) and slowing way down on the climbs. I'm normally riding as fast as I can maintain. I could really see the point where my breathing picked up, the cutoff for the periodic training easy rides.

I got home and wasn't hungry at all. Usually I'll chow down after a ride. Even though it was very easy, I could still feel it in my legs after the ride. I liked it, but I didn't keep doing it this year. It was good to help get used to longer hours on the bike.

I never did the real polarized training of lots of zone 1 and 2, no zone 3 and 4, and short hard rides in zone 5, maxed out.

GravelMN

Actually I tend to push myself pretty hard on long rides. In the last solo century I did I spent 3h 29m in Zone 3 and 2h 21m in Zone 4. My Zone 3 is 148-161 bpm and Zone 4 is 161-173 based on a maximum sustainable heart rate of 186 bpm. The only times I was in Zone 1 were at rest stops and when I rolled my bike out to the curb and put it away at the end of the ride.




I spend a lot more time in Zones 2 and 3 on my recovery/recreational rides which tend to be less than 50 miles.

hobkirk

We live in different worlds! That's an impressive ride, even if all the roads are straight (almost zero straight roads in New England). My Q referred to the LSD definition - Long SLOW Distance. Your ride would seem to be a Long HARD Distance ride.

I was taken aback by 50 miles of seemingly almost flat riding.* This weekend I rode a new club ride and was amazed to find 9 miles that were virtually flat (average 26' ascent per mile) - I've hadn't run into that before except on seacoast rides.

Thanks for sharing.

* It looks like you paid a high price in those first 40 miles!

RR3

Polarized training and a high fat diet and low carb diet bumped my power levels and cruising speeds.

GravelMN

Yep, the Red River Valley of the North is pancake flat. I've got to travel 30+ miles to get to any decent hills. I can do a century with < 100 ft +/- elevation change. This route takes me up the edge of the valley to where we start to get rolling hills and then drops back down into the basin. In addition to terrain, we have a semantic difference in that I consider LSD to stand for Long STEADY Distance as opposed to doing intervals, sprints or hill repeats. Rides that don't push me hard enough to elicit adaptation I consider recovery or recreational. It's all good as long as you are on a bike and having a good time.

RR3

Polarize training has two thresholds. LT1 and LT2. 80% of training sessions are below LT1 and one session in five is above LT2 (intervals). It is simple and I love it.

Compared to baseline power levels when I first started using polarized training last November, my LT1 increase has been off the charts (70 watt increase total......just retested today and it is up 20 more watts) while my LT2 is more modestly up by 40 watts since starting (another 10 watts today). The increase in LT1 means my old all day cruising speed of 17 MPH is now 21+ mph (flats). Just below LT1 is the pace I would keep for double centuries or longer rides. I have focused my training for endurance; so, maybe not a surprising result. I wish I got 70 more watts on the top end to be able to climb with the kids but the more modest 40 watt gain is definately noticible but just not astonishing.

Polarized is simple but it worked for me.

Drew Eckhardt 

Yes.

I'd go farther and suggest that when riding at least 4 days and 6 hours a week you need a training plan. At that point you're riding enough to get decent fitness and have the volume to make one work. Adopting one will produce huge performance improvements beyond just riding "lots" and "hard."

No. While you need to stop the tempo rides, part of zone 2 is below your aerobic threshold and fine.

Your confusion comes from the 3-zone system used by polarized people

Zone 1 - through the aerobic threshold, AeT, VT1, about where Friel's zone 2 ends
Zone 3 - above the anaerobic threshold, AnT, VT2, starting at FTP near the top of Friel power zone 4, where his heart rate zone 5a starts.
Zone 2 - everything between the two

20% of sessions. With 5 rides a week that's one day.

No "variety of intervals". Only past threshold. Under 10 minutes. Seiler reports the highest gains from 4x8 "as hard as possible" which mapped to averaging 90% of maximum heart rate (with heart rate climbing through each interval the peak is higher). Reportedly 2 minutes rest between intervals.

Zone 2. Might be hard on many social rides.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, that was the one problem we had: doing polarized on group rides. Even groups that ride relatively slowly want to climb as hard as they can. That makes sense for the usual training goals, but not for polarized. Our local club rides are categorized by pace on the flat, not average pace. We chose ride paces which were below our VT1 pace, then dropped off on the climbs and caught them back on the flats and descents. Sometimes we left 15' early and stayed just barely off the front. That isn't the same experience as a real group ride, but it's still more interesting than just riding solo.

For a couple of months last winter, we only did VT1 rides, then gradually added VT2 work in, the idea being that we could do more volume if we only did VT1 because recovery allows it.

RR3

Three 20 mile rides per week might might not be enough volume for polarized to work.

Five rides of 160-200 miles total, I would think this volume would fit for polarized.

I'll see if I can find what Sellier said. But I am pretty sure three 20 mile rides per week would yield the biggest bang for the buck ridden hard.....this is basically 3-4 hours of exercise.

no sweat

Reduced to very simple terms... if you train all the time in Z3, you'll get really good at wearing yourself out. If you train all the time in Z2 you'll get really good at being effortlessly fast & efficient (given sufficient volume). Z5 intervals will add top end power.

hobkirk

Right on point - thanks.
I've been trying this since I asked the Q.

• 2 easy rides (AHR 120, max HR 133) - remarkably comfortable
• 2 club (social) rides (AHR 128) - much less comfortable
  • Max HR on one long climb = 151, just about my max
• 1 interval ride, packaged in a 31 mile ride -
  • 5 fast-as-possible 1/4 miles (average: max HR 143, max cadence 109, 3 minute recovery) - grunting from the effort, bike lurching as I ramp up, hard to focus on GPS at end
  • One 2-mile hill, not an interval, just pushing somewhat hard: AHR 138, max 146
  • One steep downhill, pedaling hard = 138 HR, 118 max cadence, 53x11 gears. 42 mph (cadence and speed very close to my PR's)

I had been somewhat dreading the hard ride. It wasn't bad, except for the 5 intense 45 second intervals. Next time I might push harder on the climb.

I will try this again - the easy rides are more enjoyable, the hard ride was extremely interesting (and satisfying).