UCI_illegal

Make more closely-spaced 12 speed cassette options, Campagnolo!

www.change.org/p/valentino-campagnolo-make-more-12-speed-cassette-options-campagnolo

Even if I get one signature on it, I'll feel less alone.
Thank you.

noodle soup

How's the petition going?

AdkMtnMonster

Have fun storming the castle!

znomit

They should really have a cassette that has two of your most used cogs. That would make your cassette last twice as long.

I'd sign that. Let me know when it's up.

Kimmo 

Signed, of course. Pff, no 20 or even 18 to be had.

11-29... Tell me there's a 16 in that.

Sy Reene

Wouldn't the ideal of a cassette's gearing to have even percentage differences from one cog to the next? eg. if a 12 going to a 13 is about an 8.3% difference, would you really want a cassette ending in 22-23 which is 4.5% difference? Might as well go 22-24 and keep the percentage closer.

noodle soup

I could be wrong, but I don't think this design can work with a 12th cog that's smaller than 29t.

DaveSSS 

The only place to add a sprocket that makes any sense is an 18T. Then you could have an 11-27. All of the cassettes are straight block, up to the 17. Campy has decided to greatly reduce the number of cassettes with 12 speed. Now only Super Record and Chorus models are offered and the only difference is a little material shaved off the SR sprockets. All of the cogs are now steel. Most flat land riders also say they don't need an 11T cog either. You'll never see a 12 speed cassette starting with a 12.

12 speed works great for climbing. I use the new 48/32 with an 11-34. I also ride on the flats and long stretches that are slightly up or slightly down hill. I've had no problem with any type of terrain. The 48/11 is about the same as a 53/12.

noodle soup

I'm not in the market for a new groupset at this time, but the lack of an 18t cog would be a deal-breaker.

12-25t 11speed with a 50/34 crankset is Ideal for me.

IIRC a 27t innermost cog isn't possible on a 12speed cassette because the spokes would rub the chain or derailleur.

burnthesheep

I notice the new R8000, R9100 stuff doesn't have an 11-23 any longer. Why?

An 11t is stupid inefficient on a TT bike, so a 12-23 would be amazing. But, no new R-series to do that. The older stuff only.

noodle soup

11-23 is a stupid cassette for a TT, which is why I use a 12-25 11spd, 12-23 10spd, or BITD a 12-19 8spd.

UCI_illegal

I don't care for equal spacing percentages (or whatever you want to call it). I want the closest spacing, especially where the biggest cogs are. I use those when I'm climbing. I need to the most appropriate gear. The gap between one end of the cassette and the other has nothing to do with it.

Drew Eckhardt 

I'd rather pay more for 2010 Centaur than 2020 Super Record which is a grotesque downgrade without cassettes having small cogs that run 17-18-19. Even 1995 Mirage is better with a triple crank and 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21 providing a 13-19 straight block for plains rides plus bailout gear like 39x27 for mountains.

That said, you probably don't want a straight block ending in a 23 cog, especially with mechanical shifting. I rode 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23 as an experiment for a few thousand miles to see where the benefits stopped. I didn't really notice the difference between the 22 and 21/23, and the 20 wasn't worth the extra cog to skip changing rings.

While not worse than 10 speed, without 13 starting cogs 11 is no better. 52x13 was a big enough gear for Eddy Merkx to dominate the pro peloton, and I'm no Eddy. OTOH, a bigger final cog like a 21 in the 8 speed era, 23 9, and 26 10 can be useful on steep climbs.

Campagnolo 14-23 straight block:

DaveSSS 

Riders who climb slopes in the 8-12% range like I do, know that small percentage changes between the largest sprockets make no sense. When the slopes change fro 4 to 8 to 12 percent, you need some bigger changes between sprockets. What some here call climbing is just a trivial increase in slope, where I ride. I'm using the new Chorus 12 with the 48/32 and 11-34 cassette. It works great for all types of terrain, since it's a straight block up to the 17 and skips the nearly worthless 18. With my 48T chainring, the 48/16 is the same as a 53/18, so I have that supposedly magic gear ratio on my bike and another 1T jump to the 17. My top gear is the same as a 53/12.

noodle soup

No it isn't.

48x16 isn't the same as 53x18, and 48x11 isn't as large a gear 53x12.

tomato coupe

There are many people that routinely climb 8-12% that prefer small changes between the largest sprockets. Apparently, it makes sense to them.

kingston 

Interesting, I didn't like how that setup worked. There wasn't enough overlap between the two chainrings for me. I had to put a 46T on my 11s athena compact double to make it work with a 12-25 and I had to put a 12-29 on my bike with an SR compact crank to make it work.

I punched it into a gear calculator and the 11-17 straightblock on the 12s cassettes would work for me with a 42T big-ring if such a thing were available. I have a unique combination of low power and high cadence that makes the gears too big for me on just about all standard setups.

noodle soup

99% of the time I stay in the 50t ring, and 15-21t cogs, If the climb is short(less than a mile), I'll crosschain it if needed. The 34t ring is only used on longer climbs.

DaveSSS 

Both will produce the same speed with a cadence that differs by only 1-2 rpm. You can't get any closer than that.

burnthesheep

I was trying to convey I wanted an 11speed equivalent of a 12-23 cassette. I didn't phrase it right at first. I've got an 11spd 12-25 one already on my disc wheel. But sometimes on flat stuff with headwinds I never use a 25.

Like:
12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,23

But, that's not possible even mixing 5800, 6800, 9000, etc...

kingston 

ThermionicScott 

Even if that weren't the case, it looks like restricting the range of cassettes between 11-29 and 11-34 lets them make only one rear derailleur instead of having to offer short- and long-cage variants.

(I wouldn't be surprised if 13-speed were to combine all of those into one 11-34 cassette. The RD could be fine-tuned further to only track that geometry...)

Drew Eckhardt 

Long cage derailleurs work fine on small cassettes.

I paired 13-21 8 speed with a Campagnolo Racing T derailleur (technically a medium cage at 72.5mm) and 14-23 10 speed with a Record Triple Titanium (89mm).

Bah Humbug

That'd make 13-speed an easy pass for me. Even 12-speed isn't really compelling currently, and if 29-tooth is the minimum large cog technically then I don't currently have much of a use for it. I was happy with 10-speed 12-27...

ThermionicScott 

Yep, and with a capacity of 37T, the new RD is basically a long-cage unit anyway.