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Tubeless gurus

Old 07-07-16, 11:12 AM
  #1  
BigPoser
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Tubeless gurus

Hi All,

I have some new wheels coming in the next week or so and they are tubeless compatible. I wasn't ever really entertaining the idea of going tubeless, but after two flats this morning and 4 in the last 3 days, now I am.

For all the tubeless peeps, what are your feelings about it? Is it better than running tubes? Which tires do you recommend? Sealant?

Thanks in advance.

Brandon
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Old 07-07-16, 11:23 AM
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I'm using Schwalbe pro one tubeless and use stans sealant. They stay sealed on November Rails after the first ride. Initially the tires were losing air when I first installed them and the next couple of nights of them just sitting but after the first ride they have stayed properly sealed up.


I like them and find the ride is pretty darn nice. Installing them took a bit of a learning curve but once I knew how to do it everything went well. The tires out of the package were very tight, so you have to make sure that the bead is seated in the shallowest portion of the rim during installation.


I have not had a flat with them yet, so that is good.
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Old 07-07-16, 06:43 PM
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Like RJM, I too am running Schwalbe Pro one tubeless tires on November 52 Rails (cheers RJM They are no harder to mount than regular clincher tires though a bit tight as some clinchers can be. Once mounted, pinch the outer walls into the inner channel and then use a CO2 cartridge to get the beads set. Let the air out, take the valve stem out, put in (I use Stans also) the sealant, put the valve stem back in and pump up with tire pump. They ride great, I've not had any problems in over 1k so far. Take the plunge and give it a try, I think you'll like it.
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Old 07-07-16, 06:55 PM
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Hutchinson Sectors on HED Belgium+ rims with Orange sealant. Very happy with this combo, had it a little over a year and the tires are my daily driver. I wore the anodizing and then some off the DA brakes (the tires measure 31.2 at 90 PSI) but they've held up like a champ. Got about 800 on the rear and about 1300 on the front before I needed to replace them.
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Old 07-07-16, 09:58 PM
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I'm three years on tubeless now, with two different bikes, and yeah, it has been awesome. I have no thought of ever going back to tubes.

I've only run Schwalbe One, Pro One, and S-One, but can recommend them as excellent performance tires. High mileage they ain't.

I've used Stans, Orange Seal, and Joe's Eco, and really only the Joe's was lacklustre. I've actually not punctured with Orange that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that stuff, but it looks better on paper.
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Old 07-08-16, 03:22 AM
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Just switched to tubeless.

Schwalbe Pro 1 Evos with Velocity a23 rims. Had an issue when I tried cheapo tape, but with Velotape no issues at all. Just bought a compressor though as I could not get the tyres to seat with a floor pump.

They feel much much nicer than any other tyre I have ridden. Got the 25mms but they measure 28 on the wide a23 rims. Pressure I have is 90 or so.

Mounting the tyres? Reputedly hard, but with these, it takes 10 seconds a tyre.

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Old 07-08-16, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I'm three years on tubeless now, with two different bikes, and yeah, it has been awesome. I have no thought of ever going back to tubes.

I've only run Schwalbe One, Pro One, and S-One, but can recommend them as excellent performance tires. High mileage they ain't.

I've used Stans, Orange Seal, and Joe's Eco, and really only the Joe's was lacklustre. I've actually not punctured with Orange that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that stuff, but it looks better on paper.
What mileage do you get from the Pro Ones?
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Old 07-08-16, 03:30 AM
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i switched from tubed One to tubeless Pro One. same marked width, same rims. Pro One are easily wider - you can just tell by comparing the flattened width of both.

sealant is Schwalbe's Doc Blue, made by Stans. pressure retention is every bit as good as the tubed set on my other 2 700c bikes.

at the same pressure, the Pro One *seems* a bit more solid and substantial. that isnt meant in a good way. its as if im rolling on a solid block of rubber, rather than a thin sheet of silk (as tubulars are often romanticized). as far as grip probably they have a touch more grip. but honestly thats an unreliable, mentally magnified attempt at resolving the differences. like trying to count peas by feel through a mattress.

unless i swap the 2 pairs back to back to back to back for multiple rides i couldnt make a real VS assessment. if you handed me a pair of wheels blindly i wouldnt think twice about which tires between these 2 they were rolling on. much like people trying to nitpick between frame material and handlebar stiffnesses its forum-fodder hogwash. the real life, real world, practical conclusion for me about tubeless is that i dont pinch flat and thats a nice thing.
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Old 07-08-16, 04:50 AM
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I have two bikes set up with tubeless - one has Ultegra 6800 wheels and 25mm IRC Tubeless Roadlites, the other has Hed Ardennes + wheels and 24mm S-Works tubeless. Tire width comes to ~27mm on both bikes. I like them both, but don't see a performance difference between them and good tubed clinchers. With tubes, I usually got about two flats/year, haven't flatted on either set of tubeless yet.

I can't imagine getting 800 miles from a rear tire. That's about a month's riding for me.
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Old 07-08-16, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
At the same pressure, the Pro One *seems* a bit more solid and substantial, that isn't meant in a good way, its as if I'm rolling on a solid block of rubber, rather than a thin sheet of silk (as tubulars are often romanticized)
At the same inflated pressure as a tubed clincher, yes, the Pro One's do ride hard but why would you ride them inflated that high? I'll admit, I started out at 100psi when I got my Pro One's and was surprised as to how hard they felt but they're really sensitive to pressure changes and backing them down just 5-10psi made a huge difference. I ride mine at 85psi in the front and 90psi in the rear which gives them an awesome ride quality unlike any other tire I've ridden (700x23 I'm 225lbs). I've been riding the Pro One's since November and have just recently noticed them wearing to the point I'm looking for replacements. I rode a few sets of Hutcinson Fusion 3's before these which were bomb proof and seemed to never wear out so there's other options out there depending on what you're looking for but the Pro One's seem to be the best performer as of now.

BigPoser, give tubeless a shot, I've been riding tubeless for around three years and see no reason to switch back to tubed at this point. A lot of people will try to scare you away from it saying its messy, hard to mount, no real difference in ride, etc... but the reality is its just different and some here just simply don't like change. Tubeless tires have come a long way since their inception years ago, they are lighter, easier to mount, and a bit cheaper too.

I would recommend if you decide to give it a try to practice mounting the tires several times before you put the sealant in so you have confidence out on the road in the event of a flat. My first attempt was dreadful to say the least and I didn't think the tire would ever go on the rim but after actually listening to the proper mounting instructions and taking my time, I can now mount any tubeless tire without tools confidently. The key is keeping the tire beads wet with water and in the center channel of the rim during the whole process of mounting the tire starting opposite of where the valve stem is on the rim. Once on the rim be sure the tire is between the rim and stem, not sitting on top of it. Out on the road if you flat just treat it like its a std clincher setup using your usual flat kit with a tube, lever, and pump.

Good Luck, and let us know what you decide to do and how you made out. If you need any advice feel free to post back or pm any of us who have actual experience with tubeless.
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Old 07-08-16, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
What mileage do you get from the Pro Ones?
I've not worn through a set yet. I put them on a month or two ago, but have not ridden much after an arthritic flare-up in my right knee.
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Old 07-08-16, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
At the same inflated pressure as a tubed clincher, yes, the Pro One's do ride hard but why would you ride them inflated that high?
25mm front and rear for both sets, ridden at 80/85psi for both. im 150# on a 18.5# bike.

i fit relatively good clinchers on all my bikes (i.e., not 500g gator-dillos), so unless its my 23mm set pumped to 100psi-120psi, which will obviously feel bouncy and (perceived) 'fast'....... i couldnt honestly ascertain if the rubber beneath me is gp4k, pro4, turbo cotton, whathaveyou......
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Old 07-08-16, 08:11 AM
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switched to tubeless after 1 too many pinch flats and haven't looked back since...
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Old 07-08-16, 08:13 AM
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Tubeless offers no real benefit and a lot of hassles. I think this is one case where no real advantage exists other than telling your friends you went "tubeless". You have a host of new things to worry about for no gain in anything.

It reminds me of people that feed their dog raw food. They spend all this money on things like a scale and endless hours finding chicken necks for no benefit.
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Old 07-08-16, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Tubeless offers no real benefit and a lot of hassles. I think this is one case where no real advantage exists other than telling your friends you went "tubeless". You have a host of new things to worry about for no gain in anything.

It reminds me of people that feed their dog raw food. They spend all this money on things like a scale and endless hours finding chicken necks for no benefit.
Hahaha! That shipped has sailed, man! Silly statements might have stirred an argument three or four years ago, but now they just read like a desperate attempt to get attention!
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Old 07-08-16, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Hahaha! That shipped has sailed, man! Silly statements might have stirred an argument three or four years ago, but now they just read like a desperate attempt to get attention!
My local very high shop told me about 75% of people go back to traditional tires. In the process they have wasted a lot of money and time on this folly.
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Old 07-08-16, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
My local very high shop told me about 75% of people go back to traditional tires. In the process they have wasted a lot of money and time on this folly.
cool story man

but what did your brother in law's postman's dentist's great uncle tell you about tubeless?
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Old 07-08-16, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
My local very high shop told me about 75% of people go back to traditional tires. In the process they have wasted a lot of money and time on this folly.
"Very high" is right! Hahahahaha!
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Old 07-08-16, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BigPoser View Post
Hi All,

I have some new wheels coming in the next week or so and they are tubeless compatible. I wasn't ever really entertaining the idea of going tubeless, but after two flats this morning and 4 in the last 3 days, now I am.

For all the tubeless peeps, what are your feelings about it? Is it better than running tubes? Which tires do you recommend? Sealant?

Thanks in advance.

Brandon

Try it, live it, love it....

Get a flat in the middle of nowhere that won't self seal and hold air....


Go back to tubes. There are some very nice riding standard clinchers out there. Most people are not so lucky that punctures are of the microscopic self-sealing variety. And carrying a bead jack gets old to mount tubeless tires after prying them off to get a tube in there. Just not worth it for self-supporting riders.
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Old 07-08-16, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Try it, live it, love it....

Get a flat in the middle of nowhere that won't self seal and hold air....


Go back to tubes. There are some very nice riding standard clinchers out there. Most people are not so lucky that punctures are of the microscopic self-sealing variety. And carrying a bead jack gets old to mount tubeless tires after prying them off to get a tube in there. Just not worth it for self-supporting riders.
You can get a tubeless tire repair kit, solves that scenario.

Panaracer Tubeless Tire Puncture Repair Kit
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Old 07-08-16, 11:02 AM
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It's amazing how much talk there is about pinched flats. I don't understand it. In 30 years of riding I had it happen once and that's when I took a bike out with under inflated tires. Are people rountinely running low pressure?
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Old 07-08-16, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
It's amazing how much talk there is about pinched flats. I don't understand it. In 30 years of riding I had it happen once and that's when I took a bike out with under inflated tires. Are people rountinely running low pressure?
That is one of the benefits of tubeless; you can run lower pressures without developing pinch flats. Lower pressures allow for greater comfort which actually translates into faster speeds.
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Old 07-08-16, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Try it, live it, love it....

Get a flat in the middle of nowhere that won't self seal and hold air....


Go back to tubes. There are some very nice riding standard clinchers out there. Most people are not so lucky that punctures are of the microscopic self-sealing variety. And carrying a bead jack gets old to mount tubeless tires after prying them off to get a tube in there. Just not worth it for self-supporting riders.
The sane, stable, cool-headed rider would just put a tube in it like they would any standard clincher flat. It's no big deal, believe me, as I've been there and done that.

I'll also remind you that bead jacks existed before tubeless tires. Do you know what that means? It means tight beads are not the exclusive province of tubeless, and plenty of tubed clinchers are a total pain to mount, too. Of course, I think most tubeless users, myself included, have been able to mount them without any tools, not even a tire lever.
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Old 07-08-16, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Try it, live it, love it....

Get a flat in the middle of nowhere that won't self seal and hold air....


Go back to tubes. There are some very nice riding standard clinchers out there. Most people are not so lucky that punctures are of the microscopic self-sealing variety. And carrying a bead jack gets old to mount tubeless tires after prying them off to get a tube in there. Just not worth it for self-supporting riders.
If it won't hold air because of a puncture a tube can be installed. Not anymore difficult than changing the tube in a regular clincher. If a large gash happens that won't seal, repairing it would be as much of a problem as repairing a large gash on a regular clincher too. In that respect I don't see any advantage to riding tubes.
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Old 07-08-16, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
If it won't hold air because of a puncture a tube can be installed. Not anymore difficult than changing the tube in a regular clincher. If a large gash happens that won't seal, repairing it would be as much of a problem as repairing a large gash on a regular clincher too. In that respect I don't see any advantage to riding tubes.
And it is a messy PITA to get a tube in a tubeless tire that properly fully seats. Hell I've had to lug a tire bead jack along with me on rides because simply getting the bastard tire back on again is a massive chore. Oh yea...and tossing a tube in a tubeless tire results in drastic loss of ride quality. So the next 2-3 hours of riding are not going to be pleasurable.


I used to sing the gospel of roadie tubeless too (everything from 23mm Hutchinsons to 28mm Schwalbes). Then after several non-self-sealing punctures on long rides away from civilization, I saw the silliness for what it was. A ton of effort, lots of engineering, lots of hassle/mess, for not a whole lot in return.

Quality high TPI clinchers Just Work (tm). Less mess, less fuss. And you're carrying a tube in your pocket anyway because the damn tire probably won't self seal in the event of puncture anyway.

Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
The sane, stable, cool-headed rider would just put a tube in it like they would any standard clincher flat. It's no big deal, believe me, as I've been there and done that.

I'll also remind you that bead jacks existed before tubeless tires. Do you know what that means? It means tight beads are not the exclusive province of tubeless, and plenty of tubed clinchers are a total pain to mount, too. Of course, I think most tubeless users, myself included, have been able to mount them without any tools, not even a tire lever.
A) See above.

B) Most reg clinchers don't require a bead jack, they make it a ton easier but don't require it. Properly sealing tubeless are wicked tight on the rim.

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 07-08-16 at 11:24 AM.
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