Bicycle Rider shot and robbed on trail
01-05-21, 09:49 AM
#26
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We should have flogging for non violent crimes. Whip the criminal and set him free. There is a certainty of punishment because the punishment is cheap. Since flogging was once practiced in the United States it wouldn't necessarily be unconstitutional, the courts would have to decide.
01-05-21, 02:00 PM
#27
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At times, I carry Counter Assault Bear Spray while riding here in Denver. And I also possess a long time Colorado CCW Permit.
01-05-21, 07:44 PM
#28
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So what’s your proposed solution. It is easy to criticize the system. It is a lot harder to come up with solutions that work.
BTW, a HUGE chunk of that budget is in the form of correction officer salaries and pensions. They have an incredibly powerful union.
Other states run their prison system for far less money.
BTW, a HUGE chunk of that budget is in the form of correction officer salaries and pensions. They have an incredibly powerful union.
Other states run their prison system for far less money.
Australia had an excellent social security system, it's still OK but the right wing are gradually eroding it and the divide between rich and poor is steadily growing, strangely enough, some crime is increasing, especially the random drug fuel violence. Desperate people with no future do dumb stuff. Doesn't help that jails have been privatised, if you want to look at a perverse incentive, that's one right there, why would they want to erode their user base by having effective rehabilitation programs, it makes more economic sense to dump recidivists back on to the streets in a money making revolving door. It's still not even close at it's worse to the best cities in the USA however.
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01-07-21, 11:53 AM
#29
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See my post above....
Australia had an excellent social security system, it's still OK but the right wing are gradually eroding it and the divide between rich and poor is steadily growing, strangely enough, some crime is increasing, especially the random drug fuel violence. Desperate people with no future do dumb stuff. Doesn't help that jails have been privatised, if you want to look at a perverse incentive, that's one right there, why would they want to erode their user base by having effective rehabilitation programs, it makes more economic sense to dump recidivists back on to the streets in a money making revolving door. It's still not even close at it's worse to the best cities in the USA however.
Australia had an excellent social security system, it's still OK but the right wing are gradually eroding it and the divide between rich and poor is steadily growing, strangely enough, some crime is increasing, especially the random drug fuel violence. Desperate people with no future do dumb stuff. Doesn't help that jails have been privatised, if you want to look at a perverse incentive, that's one right there, why would they want to erode their user base by having effective rehabilitation programs, it makes more economic sense to dump recidivists back on to the streets in a money making revolving door. It's still not even close at it's worse to the best cities in the USA however.
it is unfortunate that too many people try to make criminal behavior into a political issue. Before I turned to software control systems to make a living, I studied economics. One of my classmates senior thesis was that crime is related to poverty. Unfortunately for him, he had to defend that thesis in class, and I pointed out that his numbers didn't indicate a correlation between crime and poverty. The professor teaching the class (who was also chief economic counsel to the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee chairman at the time) agreed that my numbers were compelling and that my classmate's thesis was faulty.
Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
I used to be a Fire/Medical responder in one of the most leftwing states in the US. The people I saw who did stupid and / or evil criminal acts were all fueled by alcohol and / or methamphetamine. Since I was in a very rural area I knew most of those people. Not all of them were poor.
Here in the state of North Dakota in the US, we have a politically conservative governor and legislature. When he took office Gov. Burgam made prison reform one of his signature issues. He made a speech in which he claimed that 95% of the male prisoners and 100% of the female prisoners had mental health and / or substance abuse issues, and that it was in the best interest of the state to deal with the underlying root cause instead of continuing with the status quo. The numbers were provided by the Department of Corrections. They are accurate.
They have added substance abuse treatment programs for both men and women. Burgum's next plan is to move the women's prison from a remote location to be closer to mental health services. The men's prisons are already in such a location. The main opposition to the move comes from the community where the prison is currently located, and the staff at the current facility. Everyone is in favor of the rest of the changes.
I know the family of an inmate who was convicted of an armed robbery who was placed in the program. He was one of the first to successfully complete the program, which is a couple of years in length. He is finishing his sentence working as a substance abuse counselor in the prison and intends to enroll in a university program to be able to work in the field when he is released. Yes, North Dakota will give him a license if he remains substance free and does not commit any additional crimes.
As far as the impact on Burgum politically? He won re-election Burgum: 66% Lentz 25% other: 9%, so I would say that it didn't hurt him very much.
Last edited by DangerousDanR; 01-07-21 at 11:55 AM. Reason: clarity
01-08-21, 05:28 PM
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The problem is that some time, the person robbed might not be able to afford to replace their bike, which may have been their only way to get to work and other places they need to go... which doesn't leave them much of a life. It's easy to blithely say "oh the {item stolen} isn't important," but it might be to the person losing it. It's not only people who can "afford" to lose their belongings who get robbed.
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01-09-21, 01:18 AM
#31
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Trevtassie:
it is unfortunate that too many people try to make criminal behavior into a political issue. Before I turned to software control systems to make a living, I studied economics. One of my classmates senior thesis was that crime is related to poverty. Unfortunately for him, he had to defend that thesis in class, and I pointed out that his numbers didn't indicate a correlation between crime and poverty. The professor teaching the class (who was also chief economic counsel to the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee chairman at the time) agreed that my numbers were compelling and that my classmate's thesis was faulty.
Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
I used to be a Fire/Medical responder in one of the most leftwing states in the US. The people I saw who did stupid and / or evil criminal acts were all fueled by alcohol and / or methamphetamine. Since I was in a very rural area I knew most of those people. Not all of them were poor.
Here in the state of North Dakota in the US, we have a politically conservative governor and legislature. When he took office Gov. Burgam made prison reform one of his signature issues. He made a speech in which he claimed that 95% of the male prisoners and 100% of the female prisoners had mental health and / or substance abuse issues, and that it was in the best interest of the state to deal with the underlying root cause instead of continuing with the status quo. The numbers were provided by the Department of Corrections. They are accurate.
They have added substance abuse treatment programs for both men and women. Burgum's next plan is to move the women's prison from a remote location to be closer to mental health services. The men's prisons are already in such a location. The main opposition to the move comes from the community where the prison is currently located, and the staff at the current facility. Everyone is in favor of the rest of the changes.
I know the family of an inmate who was convicted of an armed robbery who was placed in the program. He was one of the first to successfully complete the program, which is a couple of years in length. He is finishing his sentence working as a substance abuse counselor in the prison and intends to enroll in a university program to be able to work in the field when he is released. Yes, North Dakota will give him a license if he remains substance free and does not commit any additional crimes.
As far as the impact on Burgum politically? He won re-election Burgum: 66% Lentz 25% other: 9%, so I would say that it didn't hurt him very much.
it is unfortunate that too many people try to make criminal behavior into a political issue. Before I turned to software control systems to make a living, I studied economics. One of my classmates senior thesis was that crime is related to poverty. Unfortunately for him, he had to defend that thesis in class, and I pointed out that his numbers didn't indicate a correlation between crime and poverty. The professor teaching the class (who was also chief economic counsel to the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee chairman at the time) agreed that my numbers were compelling and that my classmate's thesis was faulty.
Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
I used to be a Fire/Medical responder in one of the most leftwing states in the US. The people I saw who did stupid and / or evil criminal acts were all fueled by alcohol and / or methamphetamine. Since I was in a very rural area I knew most of those people. Not all of them were poor.
Here in the state of North Dakota in the US, we have a politically conservative governor and legislature. When he took office Gov. Burgam made prison reform one of his signature issues. He made a speech in which he claimed that 95% of the male prisoners and 100% of the female prisoners had mental health and / or substance abuse issues, and that it was in the best interest of the state to deal with the underlying root cause instead of continuing with the status quo. The numbers were provided by the Department of Corrections. They are accurate.
They have added substance abuse treatment programs for both men and women. Burgum's next plan is to move the women's prison from a remote location to be closer to mental health services. The men's prisons are already in such a location. The main opposition to the move comes from the community where the prison is currently located, and the staff at the current facility. Everyone is in favor of the rest of the changes.
I know the family of an inmate who was convicted of an armed robbery who was placed in the program. He was one of the first to successfully complete the program, which is a couple of years in length. He is finishing his sentence working as a substance abuse counselor in the prison and intends to enroll in a university program to be able to work in the field when he is released. Yes, North Dakota will give him a license if he remains substance free and does not commit any additional crimes.
As far as the impact on Burgum politically? He won re-election Burgum: 66% Lentz 25% other: 9%, so I would say that it didn't hurt him very much.
Incidentally, I've been to to both London and the Outer Hebrides... pretty well the Outer Hebrides exports all it's potential crime to the mainland when youth moves away to get work. Just a whole bunch of old people walking to church on Sundays (yes, I drove on a Sunday and got scowled at). London still has 28% of it's population below the poverty line, incomes may be higher, but so are other costs like housing, which more than absorbs the difference.
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01-10-21, 10:24 AM
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Trevtassie:
it is unfortunate that too many people try to make criminal behavior into a political issue. Before I turned to software control systems to make a living, I studied economics. One of my classmates senior thesis was that crime is related to poverty. Unfortunately for him, he had to defend that thesis in class, and I pointed out that his numbers didn't indicate a correlation between crime and poverty. The professor teaching the class (who was also chief economic counsel to the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee chairman at the time) agreed that my numbers were compelling and that my classmate's thesis was faulty.
Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
I used to be a Fire/Medical responder in one of the most leftwing states in the US. The people I saw who did stupid and / or evil criminal acts were all fueled by alcohol and / or methamphetamine. Since I was in a very rural area I knew most of those people. Not all of them were poor.
Here in the state of North Dakota in the US, we have a politically conservative governor and legislature. When he took office Gov. Burgam made prison reform one of his signature issues. He made a speech in which he claimed that 95% of the male prisoners and 100% of the female prisoners had mental health and / or substance abuse issues, and that it was in the best interest of the state to deal with the underlying root cause instead of continuing with the status quo. The numbers were provided by the Department of Corrections. They are accurate.
They have added substance abuse treatment programs for both men and women. Burgum's next plan is to move the women's prison from a remote location to be closer to mental health services. The men's prisons are already in such a location. The main opposition to the move comes from the community where the prison is currently located, and the staff at the current facility. Everyone is in favor of the rest of the changes.
I know the family of an inmate who was convicted of an armed robbery who was placed in the program. He was one of the first to successfully complete the program, which is a couple of years in length. He is finishing his sentence working as a substance abuse counselor in the prison and intends to enroll in a university program to be able to work in the field when he is released. Yes, North Dakota will give him a license if he remains substance free and does not commit any additional crimes.
As far as the impact on Burgum politically? He won re-election Burgum: 66% Lentz 25% other: 9%, so I would say that it didn't hurt him very much.
it is unfortunate that too many people try to make criminal behavior into a political issue. Before I turned to software control systems to make a living, I studied economics. One of my classmates senior thesis was that crime is related to poverty. Unfortunately for him, he had to defend that thesis in class, and I pointed out that his numbers didn't indicate a correlation between crime and poverty. The professor teaching the class (who was also chief economic counsel to the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee chairman at the time) agreed that my numbers were compelling and that my classmate's thesis was faulty.
Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
I used to be a Fire/Medical responder in one of the most leftwing states in the US. The people I saw who did stupid and / or evil criminal acts were all fueled by alcohol and / or methamphetamine. Since I was in a very rural area I knew most of those people. Not all of them were poor.
Here in the state of North Dakota in the US, we have a politically conservative governor and legislature. When he took office Gov. Burgam made prison reform one of his signature issues. He made a speech in which he claimed that 95% of the male prisoners and 100% of the female prisoners had mental health and / or substance abuse issues, and that it was in the best interest of the state to deal with the underlying root cause instead of continuing with the status quo. The numbers were provided by the Department of Corrections. They are accurate.
They have added substance abuse treatment programs for both men and women. Burgum's next plan is to move the women's prison from a remote location to be closer to mental health services. The men's prisons are already in such a location. The main opposition to the move comes from the community where the prison is currently located, and the staff at the current facility. Everyone is in favor of the rest of the changes.
I know the family of an inmate who was convicted of an armed robbery who was placed in the program. He was one of the first to successfully complete the program, which is a couple of years in length. He is finishing his sentence working as a substance abuse counselor in the prison and intends to enroll in a university program to be able to work in the field when he is released. Yes, North Dakota will give him a license if he remains substance free and does not commit any additional crimes.
As far as the impact on Burgum politically? He won re-election Burgum: 66% Lentz 25% other: 9%, so I would say that it didn't hurt him very much.
I grew up the son of a poor share cropper. I really never had any money of my own before I left the farm and joined the Navy. I realize now that I actually lived in poverty. Yet I never even gave a thot to going out and robbing someone. I might have been very poor, but I was taught morals. Again poverty is no excuse to commit a crime. Those that think that it is, is only egging on the criminals, and are part of the problem.
Last edited by rydabent; 01-16-21 at 11:29 AM.
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01-16-21, 11:18 AM
#33
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Weird thing is it turns out you don't need a "tough on crime" justice system to reduce crime rates. It's much cheaper and nicer to have a decent social security system and social medicine system so that the people who fall through the cracks don't need to rob people to survive, and the whackos get treatment. Cheaper, because jailing people is very expensive, both in terms of the upfront cost and the cost of the lost productivity of those jailed. And nicer, because being able to wander around without being on the alert for weapon toting desperadoes is relaxing.
But it seems that certain people just can't see that being nice actually is economically effective on a societal level, having a decent social system actually makes the pie bigger for everyone, not just the rich. Unfortunately the dog eat dog ideology is being spread around the world by the rich, they are a little unhinged, if it was anything other than money that they were collecting people would think that they are insane and lock them up. Somehow they've managed to convince average people that they alsovhave a chance to become hoaders too, if only the rules were relaxed even more, even though all the evidence points to the contrary.
But it seems that certain people just can't see that being nice actually is economically effective on a societal level, having a decent social system actually makes the pie bigger for everyone, not just the rich. Unfortunately the dog eat dog ideology is being spread around the world by the rich, they are a little unhinged, if it was anything other than money that they were collecting people would think that they are insane and lock them up. Somehow they've managed to convince average people that they alsovhave a chance to become hoaders too, if only the rules were relaxed even more, even though all the evidence points to the contrary.
01-22-21, 11:42 AM
#34
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Cleaned up thread to remove gun talk.
rydabent, you posted this forum doesn’t allow gun talk then immediately said an old lady almost blew off the head of an intruder. How could you start out that way and then jump into gun discussions?
The reason it’s not allowed is gun discussions quickly degenerate into intense arguments. Let’s keep this a cycling forum
rydabent, you posted this forum doesn’t allow gun talk then immediately said an old lady almost blew off the head of an intruder. How could you start out that way and then jump into gun discussions?
The reason it’s not allowed is gun discussions quickly degenerate into intense arguments. Let’s keep this a cycling forum
01-26-21, 05:31 PM
#35
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predators are gonna hurt most people. self defense is mostly an urban myth because if you are targeted while on a bike you are going to be knocked to the pavement and jumped before you know what hit you. i have to ride thru the hoods and i try to stay as wary as possible. best advice is ride with pace and try not look like a victim waiting to happen. the opportunist mugger is generally looking for a pedestrian alone. bicyclers are in more danger from cars than muggers. the pandemic means less traffics and the rode is mostly yours so use all of it. NEVER ride close to people is a good tip ..................my experience is that unchained Pits are a much bigger worry than boogymen in the bushes
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01-26-21, 06:09 PM
#36
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Ten teenagers murdered Robert Ponsi. The three that got charged are already back on the streets. The mayor and state's attorney expressed sympathy for the teenagers, not the victim or his family.
https://afro.com/three-arrested-for-murder-of-cyclist/
https://digitaledition.baltimoresun....b-9d362927740e
Several personal friends of mine have been robbed and assaulted. It will never make the news because it is so common. No one is ever caught or charged but even if so, in Baltimore only criminals get 'justice', never the victims or families..
https://afro.com/three-arrested-for-murder-of-cyclist/
https://digitaledition.baltimoresun....b-9d362927740e
Several personal friends of mine have been robbed and assaulted. It will never make the news because it is so common. No one is ever caught or charged but even if so, in Baltimore only criminals get 'justice', never the victims or families..
01-27-21, 12:31 AM
#37
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I had to give up a really nice grey wool toque many years ago when three guys headed the other way on a bridge sidewalk snatched it off my head as I rode by.
The indignity made me wish I had one of those things we're not allowed to mention here.
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04-02-21, 09:19 PM
#39
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What happens when your in jail for a crime you didn't commit?
Jail isn't always the best solution, they tend to get overcrowded, and become crime universities.
I will agree that violent offenders do need to be separated from the general population, just ask Trevtassie!
Jail isn't always the best solution, they tend to get overcrowded, and become crime universities.
I will agree that violent offenders do need to be separated from the general population, just ask Trevtassie!
04-11-21, 07:49 AM
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Crimes that physically harm no one could be handled in a different way. Sentence them to house arrest with a boot, and let their families support them.
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04-14-21, 09:27 AM
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Look at the UK. Property crime is very high in London. Mean and median incomes are among the highest in the UK Glasgow is a fairly violent place, particularly by UK standards. If you go to the Outer Hebrides, you will find an area almost free of crime. They have the exact same social welfare systems, and there are a lot of poor people in the Hebrides. There is also a very strong sense of community, and there is almost no crime, and what there is mostly revolves around substance abuse.
It might be poverty and population density.
There appears to be an inverse correlation, in the US, between being a victim of crime and income level.
===============================
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/perio...ighlight2.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statis...inal_behaviour
04-15-21, 01:04 PM
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The people that make excuses for criminals that commit crimes against cyclist or anyone else, are part of the problem.
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