36Oly_Rider

Patina, as defined by Wikipedia, is "a thin layer that variously forms on the surface of stone; on copper, bronze and similar metals (tarnish produced by oxidation or other chemical processes);[1] on wooden furniture (sheen produced by age, wear, and polishing); or any such acquired change of a surface through age and exposure. Patinas can provide a protective covering to materials that would otherwise be damaged by corrosion or weathering. They may also be aesthetically appealing.

"...Figuratively, patina can refer to any fading, darkening or other signs of age, which are felt to be natural or unavoidable (or both)."

So, with that being said, a bicycle can be maintained and through time will acquire its own patina, which is fine. I have no problem with it as long as the damage is within reason for the age of the bike. My question is what factors make it too much or unappealing?

I ask because I'm planning on getting my 85 Allez SE frame painted. The frame is in superb condition with normal rock dings, minor scratches, and very little rust, but suffers from heavy paint fading on one side due to prolonged storage and sun exposure without being moved for 20 or so years. Basically, the exposed side is pink (about 50-55% of the bike) and the other side is red.

SJX426 

It is defined by you. When I purchased my '83(ish) Colnago Superissimo, all I could think of was a repaint and new decals. Today, 7 years later, I wouldn't touch it. It meets the definition provided as does yours. Mine has scratches down to the metal in a number of places as well as dings on the decals.
[IMG]P9201318, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]P9201315, on Flickr[/IMG]

From the right distance, it doesn't look bad.
[IMG]1983 Colnago Superissimo, on Flickr[/IMG]

They are original only once. I have a small number of bikes there were rattle canned, so they were lower in price and candidates for repaint.

rootboy 

What you describe on your Allez is damage. From the sun. Not patina.
It's common around here for the two to be confused with one another.


All it takes is a careful reading of that definition above to determine that most of
what is seen on old bikes, isn't patina.

I'd have it re-painted if it were mine.

daf1009

I tend to like bikes to be kept in original condition...but...that typically only applies to really collectible bikes...yours as a Specialized Allez...not the most collectible...so paint it if you like. As for patina, the amount is DEFINITELY in the eye of the beholder...I can stand quite a bit to keep a 1950's or 60's bike in original condition...as for my more modern bikes, I can stand a bit less...

bradtx

My project bike is 'two toned' like yours and I'm going to repaint. On the other hand I have had a now old bike for over twenty years with several scuffs and scratches in the paint, mostly my fault, that I wouldn't repaint for anything.

Brad

randyjawa 

"Patina" is a much nicer way of describing damage than saying "rusted, scratched and chipped". How much is too much, will always be the owner's call, however...

Once you eradicate the paitna, you are left with an unoriginal bicycle and the value will drop. Guys like me have little or no interest in repainted bicycles, and powder coated ones are completely off of my "will buy" list.

So, my Legnano is about the limit of what is acceptable in the patina world, but just barely...

As found...


Going to take it out for a spin today, and it still bears all of its patina...



Had the art suffered the way the top tube did, a repainting would be in absolute order. But the art is still pretty good and I have no intention of painting the bicycle. And, the patina has absolutely no impact on ride quality, except that I am not too worried about adding another paint chip or scratch. On the other hand...

This old Torpado does get the Full Monty, simple because the Italian quick release paint has, pretty much, released and the art, what little is left, is pretty bad...



Also, under that patina rests a full polished chrome plated frame and fork set. I am about to shoot the second color this week, as soon as the primary light blue dries to sanding condition.



So, to summarize - if the art is still good, leave the paint and art untouched (well some touch up is OK). Ride the bicycle the way it is for a season, or two or... The point is, you can do the paint and art thing anytime, or a hundred times, if you wish. But you can't ever do original again, once painted.

DMC707

Patina -- when it becomes rust and not patina - then that is too much

Bikerider007

I have multiple bikes and have not been able to bring myself to repaint any with patina. Some are rough but it is character IMO. And it's funny but people that don't know bikes seem to be more attracted and will comment as it looks older.

I do have one with a TT dent I am debating whether it's worth repair/paint.

For a grail type I would rather pay decent money for an old wall hanger than repaint one and put money into.

MiloFrance

My Holdsworth 531 Special has just gone off to be readied for a paint job purely because I couldn't see how bad the rusty bits were. Shot blast, fill and sand, repaint.

Seizedpost

I'm respraying the drive side chainstay on a 1985 Fuji Sagres I just got. It had gotten chipped up, and the chips had rusted, and the rust had spread and deepened and would have continued until it went all the way through. There was some pretty nice pitting.

I agree with DMC707, because rust you ignore will get worse. You at least need to clearcoat over it.

rhm

In other words, we (on this forum) use it as a euphemism. We pretend damage is patina. This is a misuse of the term. Properly, patina is a change that occurs on the surface, often changing the color, sometimes adding a protective coating.

The powdery whitish coating that grows on polished aluminum (not on anodized or painted aluminum), that's patina. It also occurs on aluminum where the anodized coating has worn away. People on this forum often polish it off.

The yellowed clearcoat that turns a sky blue Bianchi to a turquoise green, that is also patina.

The coating of dried oil that accumulates around the BB and chain stays of old bikes, that is patina. Most people wash it off.

PeregrineA1 

I struggle with this one. For now it stays as is.

rootboy 

What RHM said. Well put.

AlexCyclistRoch

That's about the cycling equivalent to a "rat rod".

Kactus

I agree with the term 'patina' being misused often, but I do understand what it has come to mean on the forum. That being said, how much patina is too much is a personal decision. I don't mind honest chips and scratches, but Randy's Legnano or Peregrines Paramount are too much for me, I would have them repainted asap.

36Oly_Rider

Interesting stuff... I agree with a lot of what is said and see how the term patina can be taken out of text. I know my bike is not necessarily "rare" or a hard-to-obtain 3Rensho Allez, but it does make me happy knowing that I have it. I don't really look at value like an avid collector would. I want it fresh, but I don't want it to detract from the original.

I do agree it is "damaged" due to the degradation of color, which is why I asked. I've been reading about painting bikes throughout the forum, but wasn't getting an honest answer regarding patinization of a bicycle.

Kactus

If your frame is not clear coated, you might try an aggressive polish to see if you can get some of the color back.

36Oly_Rider

Yeah, I tried and the clear coat is thick. I thought about sanding down through the clear coat, but either way, the decals will need to be replaced. I don't mind getting it painted, just trying to match things up is the hard part. I may still try sanding down the clear coat on the stays before I make an absolute decision, but reading about it, not too many people have had success with it...

Velocivixen

I refer to my bike's "patina" in sort of tongue in cheek way, to mean.....they're scratched up (paint).

rootboy 

Maybe we can vote to use the word patina only in certain appropriate circumstances.
And the rest of the time, call it.... wear and tear? Weathering? Neglect damage?
...weartina?

:>

Wileyone 

I always thought patina was in the eyes of the beholder. If it's "not" a Grail Bike do what you want with it. If it is a Grail Bike informed decisions need to be made.

eschlwc

turn the bike around and check back in twenty years?

pink bikes are cool. and if they say 'faggin' on the side, you need some moxie to ride 'em.
.

jcb3

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sf...648275350.html

When patina becomes a verb (or would that be an adverb)

"Frame has been patinaed"

Bikerider007

Patina around here seems to be an all inclusive term for actual aging and wear and tear.

This thread reminds me of the recent one regarding what classic is. Everyone has a similar mindset but different take.

horatio 

^This. Kind of like the 10 blind men describing the proverbial elephant?

I've acquired something with patina. I'll try to post over the holiday weekend.