Thoughts on belt-drive and/or IGH?
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Thoughts on belt-drive and/or IGH?
I have been looking at Brilliant/Priority bikes lately. Lots of people love them.
But I have been reading some negatives. In particular:
But I have been reading some negatives. In particular:
- difficult to change back tire
- frictional loses from belt & IGH
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,063
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4197 Post(s)
Liked 3,849 Times
in
2,300 Posts
Just make sure that the IHG is rated for the tension that a belt drive needs to have. Belts place a lot of force on the BB and hub/freehub body, driver. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#3
Not lost wanderer.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lititz, Pa
Posts: 3,325
Bikes: In USA; 73 Raleigh Super Course dingle speed, 72 Raleigh Gran Sport SS, 72 Geoffry Butler, 81 Centurion Pro-Tour, 74 Gugie Grandier Sportier
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 885 Post(s)
Liked 989 Times
in
521 Posts
I have 2 bikes with belt drives, both from Japan. One is a Miyata and one is a Bridgestone. The Miyata has this weird crankset to keep tension on the belt. The Bridgestone has a Bio-pace type with a weird set of rollers to keep tension on the belt.
#4
Newbie
Thread Starter
Is it difficult to change the tire? Does the bike roll as easily as a chain drive? Do you think the belt drive is worth it? Would you recommend a belt drive?
#5
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,493
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4342 Post(s)
Liked 3,978 Times
in
2,659 Posts
What are you looking for in a bike? What are your plans?
A bike with a Rohloff or Pinion drive and a belt is an excellent combination for touring and commuting but if I am looking to do some faster road rides, it is probably not what I want. If my option is get a cheap 3 speed and a belt on some low end frame I am out give me a geared bike with quality parts (10 speed and up if new) and save the money on the belt.
A bike with a Rohloff or Pinion drive and a belt is an excellent combination for touring and commuting but if I am looking to do some faster road rides, it is probably not what I want. If my option is get a cheap 3 speed and a belt on some low end frame I am out give me a geared bike with quality parts (10 speed and up if new) and save the money on the belt.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,063
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4197 Post(s)
Liked 3,849 Times
in
2,300 Posts
We have a couple of customers with belt drives and IGHs and they agree with the flat/wheel removal issues. They both run flat protection tires and one, IIRC, also slimes the tubes. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,063
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4197 Post(s)
Liked 3,849 Times
in
2,300 Posts
A co worker and I were just talking about drivetrain efficiency a few days ago. He mentioned a chain drive system has mid 90s% efficiency, this jives with what I've learned (likely from Bicycle Science, Bicycling Science, Third Edition | The MIT Press ). He said that driveshaft systems are around 80/85%, gear design dependent. But it was his belt drive suggestion of 70% that made me think. My experience with servicing and then test riding various bikes with belts had me thinking that belts were less efficient then chains but the amount less surprised me.
We agreed on the added loads the hub/driver and BB bearings see. Andy
We agreed on the added loads the hub/driver and BB bearings see. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,840
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2337 Post(s)
Liked 2,818 Times
in
1,539 Posts
the bikes the OP could range from the @$700 to $800 range with gate belt and shimano 7 speed IGH. to $2300 with 12 speed pinion.
look like these have track style rear drop outs, that may make flat changes on the rear a little easier, but would still have to deal with getting belt back to correct tension...it does look like there is a fixie sort of tensioning screw also
I have not hands on experience, but for a just get on and ride bike with low maintenance for errands and commuting they could work well. I would do a practice flat fix in the comfortable confines of home first, rather than try to do one one on the road the first time.
look like these have track style rear drop outs, that may make flat changes on the rear a little easier, but would still have to deal with getting belt back to correct tension...it does look like there is a fixie sort of tensioning screw also
I have not hands on experience, but for a just get on and ride bike with low maintenance for errands and commuting they could work well. I would do a practice flat fix in the comfortable confines of home first, rather than try to do one one on the road the first time.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
212 Posts
A co worker and I were just talking about drivetrain efficiency a few days ago. He mentioned a chain drive system has mid 90s% efficiency, this jives with what I've learned (likely from Bicycle Science, Bicycling Science, Third Edition | The MIT Press ). He said that driveshaft systems are around 80/85%, gear design dependent. But it was his belt drive suggestion of 70% that made me think. My experience with servicing and then test riding various bikes with belts had me thinking that belts were less efficient then chains but the amount less surprised me.
We agreed on the added loads the hub/driver and BB bearings see. Andy
We agreed on the added loads the hub/driver and BB bearings see. Andy
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,063
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4197 Post(s)
Liked 3,849 Times
in
2,300 Posts
There's a guy on YouTube called CYCLINGABOUT who goes on long tours in places like Patagonia. Really nice channel and beautiful scenery. Anyway he loves belt drives (and they do work really well for what he's doing) and he says if you have stiff chainstays, as he does on his Al Koga Miyata, you can run with a lot less tension which greatly improves the efficiency.
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#11
Newbie
Thread Starter
I am looking to ride around, maybe pickup a few groceries, some dirt trails - not mountain biking. I can usually do simple maintenance, like change a flat. I am not looking to do anything competitive.
BTW: also a vegan, for seven years now.
BTW: also a vegan, for seven years now.
Likes For walterbyrd:
#12
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,493
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4342 Post(s)
Liked 3,978 Times
in
2,659 Posts
Good to have other vegans.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 396 Times
in
274 Posts
I have a 2013 Co-Motion Pangia Rohloff. Co-Motion designed the rear dropouts so every time you remove the wheel and re insert it the belt tension is the same. If you purchase a bicycle with a belt the bike is designed for that setup. So the frame stiffness is correct for the use of a belt. I believe you would need to get used to the difference in how you remove and re insert the wheel. If you are interested in info of drivetrain efficiency look at articles in Cyclingabout. Once your chain picks up a little dirt or sand it is no longer more efficient. I will never go back to chains on a bicycle and this is why.
01: Not having to straighten or adjust a derailleur
02: Not having to clean a chain
03: Not having the chain come off
04: Not having grease marks on your leg
05: Not needing to carry chain lube, and cleaning equipment on a long trip
I COULD GO ON !
01: Not having to straighten or adjust a derailleur
02: Not having to clean a chain
03: Not having the chain come off
04: Not having grease marks on your leg
05: Not needing to carry chain lube, and cleaning equipment on a long trip
I COULD GO ON !
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,063
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4197 Post(s)
Liked 3,849 Times
in
2,300 Posts
I have a 2013 Co-Motion Pangia Rohloff. Co-Motion designed the rear dropouts so every time you remove the wheel and re insert it the belt tension is the same. If you purchase a bicycle with a belt the bike is designed for that setup. So the frame stiffness is correct for the use of a belt. I believe you would need to get used to the difference in how you remove and re insert the wheel. If you are interested in info of drivetrain efficiency look at articles in Cyclingabout. Once your chain picks up a little dirt or sand it is no longer more efficient. I will never go back to chains on a bicycle and this is why.
01: Not having to straighten or adjust a derailleur
02: Not having to clean a chain
03: Not having the chain come off
04: Not having grease marks on your leg
05: Not needing to carry chain lube, and cleaning equipment on a long trip
I COULD GO ON !
01: Not having to straighten or adjust a derailleur
02: Not having to clean a chain
03: Not having the chain come off
04: Not having grease marks on your leg
05: Not needing to carry chain lube, and cleaning equipment on a long trip
I COULD GO ON !
I don't argue with the desire to avoid the issues with metal chains. Just with the somewhat trendy and pie in the sky thinking of belts that many seem to believe in. At 4 posts in this thread I have exceeded my usual quota. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 396 Times
in
274 Posts
Chains loose efficiency quite quickly. A tight belt causes efficiency problems. When I ride my Tandem it is necessary to clean the chain at least twice a week. Because I have a very stiff frame on my Co-Motion I keep my belt tension some what slack. I hose the dust off the belt and bicycle at the same time.
(trendy and pie in the sky thinking of belts that many seem to believe) Do you have a personal problem with belts
(trendy and pie in the sky thinking of belts that many seem to believe) Do you have a personal problem with belts
#16
Not lost wanderer.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lititz, Pa
Posts: 3,325
Bikes: In USA; 73 Raleigh Super Course dingle speed, 72 Raleigh Gran Sport SS, 72 Geoffry Butler, 81 Centurion Pro-Tour, 74 Gugie Grandier Sportier
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 885 Post(s)
Liked 989 Times
in
521 Posts
Changing a flat tire is not a problem with a belt. Here it is the other stuff in the way
To change the flat you have to remove the axle nuts, the fender stays, the rack stays, release the tension keepers, taken out the coaster brake arm retainer.
sometimes you have to remove the belt case to remove the belt.
This is that funky belt tensioner system for the biopace like belt ring on the crank.
When it is a 3 speed there is even more to come off.
To change the flat you have to remove the axle nuts, the fender stays, the rack stays, release the tension keepers, taken out the coaster brake arm retainer.
sometimes you have to remove the belt case to remove the belt.
This is that funky belt tensioner system for the biopace like belt ring on the crank.
When it is a 3 speed there is even more to come off.