Making a Shimano XT Deer Head timeline
#26
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Back to the m700 XT. I know the 1983 Specialized Expedition, Stumpjumper, and SJ Sport came with MC70 cantilevers in 1983 and yesterday I found this add saying MountainBikes would be the first to carry the XT component set, hey say prices effective Jan 8 '83 so perhaps that is the date they would have expected them. Therefore is likely Shimano had began making the group in the Fall of 1982. Does anyone has a GH, GI, GK, GL m700 stamped components?
I found today a set of cantis with HD (april '83) and maybe HB (feb '83 stamped on them), these are about the earliest I have seen, but I have a set of unstamped levers.
I found today a set of cantis with HD (april '83) and maybe HB (feb '83 stamped on them), these are about the earliest I have seen, but I have a set of unstamped levers.
It's a shame the Super Plate has a bad reputation. It shifted really well, even better than my 1982 Suntour ARx RD. I'd be happy to have a non SP version, but I can't justify paying >$100 for a derailleur that old.
anywho, the stamps on the groupset have IK.
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I have a Deer Head groupset of a 1985 or 86 with the superplate RD I salvaged from a damaged M1000. The parts are mingled with other builds so I can only post what I have available.
It's a shame the Super Plate has a bad reputation. It shifted really well, even better than my 1982 Suntour ARx RD. I'd be happy to have a non SP version, but I can't justify paying >$100 for a derailleur that old....
It's a shame the Super Plate has a bad reputation. It shifted really well, even better than my 1982 Suntour ARx RD. I'd be happy to have a non SP version, but I can't justify paying >$100 for a derailleur that old....
Frank Berto attributed it's demise to added cost from it's complexity and maintains it was dropped in favour of the simpler, 2nd generation, slant parallelogram design, after SunTour's patent expired. However, 2nd generation Deore XT didn't arrive until the 1987 model year and Shimano had introduced slant parallelogram rear derailleurs two years earlier on New Dura-Ace. Then again, Deore XT also had to wait two years for indexing. Maybe it was a case of not wanting to introduce major changes too soon, combined with paying off the old tooling.
#28
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Yes, the Superplate version of the 1st generation Deore XT rear derailleur shifted very well. I have one, with original box and instructions. The Deore XT Superplate and SunTour's MounTech were both in direct response to the success that Huret had been having with their Duopar, the acknowledged champion of wide range derailleurs since it's introduction in the autumn of 1975. Both Shimano and SunTour circumvented Huret's patent by spring loading the 2nd parallelogram. SunTour's design had poor jockey pulley seals resulting in a plethora of failures. I'm not aware of the Superplate having the same issues, though it's reputation may have suffered by association.
Frank Berto attributed it's demise to added cost from it's complexity and maintains it was dropped in favour of the simpler, 2nd generation, slant parallelogram design, after SunTour's patent expired. However, 2nd generation Deore XT didn't arrive until the 1987 model year and Shimano had introduced slant parallelogram rear derailleurs two years earlier on New Dura-Ace. Then again, Deore XT also had to wait two years for indexing. Maybe it was a case of not wanting to introduce major changes too soon, combined with paying off the old tooling.
Frank Berto attributed it's demise to added cost from it's complexity and maintains it was dropped in favour of the simpler, 2nd generation, slant parallelogram design, after SunTour's patent expired. However, 2nd generation Deore XT didn't arrive until the 1987 model year and Shimano had introduced slant parallelogram rear derailleurs two years earlier on New Dura-Ace. Then again, Deore XT also had to wait two years for indexing. Maybe it was a case of not wanting to introduce major changes too soon, combined with paying off the old tooling.
Are there any replacements for the superplate jockey in case it goes bust? I'd very much like to continue using it.
Edit: disregard this question. I found myself asking the same question on a different thread related to this derailleur. Sorry!
Last edited by BikeWonder; 12-09-19 at 02:34 PM.
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Here's my M739 SGS, same grouping as those hubs I mentioned. The last of the cool-looking RDs, lol. 😉 This one's marked 8-speed, then they went to the less cool-looking M750, for 9-speed. This one still needs a good cleaning, but seems to be in excellent condition, otherwise. 😎
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Sorry, I couldn't help goofing on your misprint there. I knew what you meant. 😁😉
I have the M900 FD, but the later M950 brifters. I found a spray can of White Lightning 2 in 1 degreaser & lube today, at Wally World. Just gotta use it now. 😉 😎
Maybe tomorrow. 😎
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One anomaly was the Biopace FC-B124 crankset, circa 85. It had all the elements of a Deore touring triple without the name while the finish was less refined. Not sure what other components were specced with it.
From ebay (and my stash)
From ebay (and my stash)
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Didn't those usually go with Z series/105 level stuff? See the 1986 Schwinn Voyageur as an example.
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What's actually funny is I actually went back and corrected that because it didn't look right... Sorry, and thanks!!! I'll re-un-fix that.
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There's the rub. Some of that Z stuff looked like AX, some looked like Golden Arrow, some looked like SIS. We look back thinking there was a roadmap for both Shimano and Suntour but I think they were in a constant mad rush to innovate and redesign in order to win the market. There were all sorts of oddball stuff like 200GS, Exage 400LX, C700, Sport LX plus all the Deores. Most were good but what a marketing mess.
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There's the rub. Some of that Z stuff looked like AX, some looked like Golden Arrow, some looked like SIS. We look back thinking there was a roadmap for both Shimano and Suntour but I think they were in a constant mad rush to innovate and redesign in order to win the market. There were all sorts of oddball stuff like 200GS, Exage 400LX, C700, Sport LX plus all the Deores. Most were good but what a marketing mess.
Dura Ace had a group. XT had a group. They were like pals.
600/Ultegra had a group (or several). Deore had a group. They were like pals. But then Deore got jealous and change his name to DX. Beyond that... Dunno.
Golden Arrow was essentially 105. And Z Series stuff kind of played along in that boat. Really, I've read that the FC6206 is kinda a Golden Arrow part, even though it carries a 600 series nomenclature and finish... (and honestly, I think it's a nicer crank than the M730). Maybe that's just a "triple persecution" thing...
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Don't sweat it, I goofed up too. Mega 9 XTR started at M952, not M950, and they came out in 1999. 😎 It's a lot to remember. 😉
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The FC-B124 was not introduced until the 1987 model year, by which time 2nd generation Deore XT was available and had a dedicated FC-M730 crankset. At a claimed 752g, the FC-B124 was significantly heavier than the FC-M730 (707g) or FC-6206 (700g). Based on the weight different, I suspect that it was cast rather than forged. The FC-B124 was typically paired with the new Deore (MT60 series) of ATB components, which in 1987 had yet to receive a matching crankset. It was also sometimes seen on ATBs with Light Action derailleurs.
#38
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Here are pics of shifters and derailleurs with the three types of the RD Centeron, Super Plate and standard
The Deer Head logo
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Fun Facts:
I don't know if anybody else has noticed but the deer emblem on the rear derailleur depicts a male (buck or stag) while the front derailleur depicts a female (doe or hind). So, the front derailleur is a "she", while the rear derailleur is a "he". The deer are a variety indigenous to Japan, known as Sika.
When Bianchi revamped their ATB lineup in 1990, they chose model names from endangered species. One of them was the Sika but they missed the opportunity for an in-joke by equipping it with Deore LX instead of Deore XT.
I don't know if anybody else has noticed but the deer emblem on the rear derailleur depicts a male (buck or stag) while the front derailleur depicts a female (doe or hind). So, the front derailleur is a "she", while the rear derailleur is a "he". The deer are a variety indigenous to Japan, known as Sika.
When Bianchi revamped their ATB lineup in 1990, they chose model names from endangered species. One of them was the Sika but they missed the opportunity for an in-joke by equipping it with Deore LX instead of Deore XT.
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T-Mar when did the MT-60 crankset come along?
I seem to recall it being used through Deore II and DX name and nomenclature changes.
I seem to recall it being used through Deore II and DX name and nomenclature changes.
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Last edited by Santuri32; 12-10-19 at 07:51 PM. Reason: incomplete sentence
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Ha, that's pretty weird, about the buck & doe. 😎 And the Bianchi tie-in is/would have been hilarious. 😁
#45
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Success! I finally found literature from January 1983 in which Shimano might have made the introductory announcement of the XT m700 Deer Head group. It was on a Touring component brochure. At the time we have that Shimano definitely began making m700 components sometime in the Fall of 1982, we have located a February '83 stamped cantilever brake (HB) and this brochure might have been the first printed material about it by Shimano. Shimano XT might likely be an 1983 model production group and their History page might be wrong to claim '82, as no '82 bike used it as these were made for '83 model bikes, and even then, adoption might have been slow that year. Of the few manufactures using some Deer Head components in 1983 where MountainBikes and Moots carrying groupsets and Specialized with Stumpjumpers using their cantilevers.
Curiously, the bike in the brochure is a 1982 Stumpjumper and appears to be a TIG with a biplane fork (March to June built) bike. Somewhere, I read Shimano worked with California and Colorado bike companies in the development of this group set, and MountainBikes, Moots and Specialized could have been these.
Curiously, the bike in the brochure is a 1982 Stumpjumper and appears to be a TIG with a biplane fork (March to June built) bike. Somewhere, I read Shimano worked with California and Colorado bike companies in the development of this group set, and MountainBikes, Moots and Specialized could have been these.
Last edited by Santuri32; 12-10-19 at 07:54 PM. Reason: complete a sentece
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Very cool, but impossible to read, lol. 😁😉 I can enlarge it a little, on my phone, but not nearly enough. 😩
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Over the past 4 years I have had a small number of the Deerhead RD’s come through my parts collection. I still have 2, one with the original box. This thread has been very enlightening as to origins and intent. Before this, I had assumed they were a dedicated ‘80s mountain bike component. That is until I was given a Raleigh touring bike had used one prior to his having a 600 Arabesque on it. Cool info, guys.
Here is one of the 2 M700’s I currently have in the bin, one is barely used.
Here is one of the 2 M700’s I currently have in the bin, one is barely used.
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T-Mar when did the MT-60 crankset come along?
I seem to recall it being used through Deore II and DX name and nomenclature changes.
I seem to recall it being used through Deore II and DX name and nomenclature changes.
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#50
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As that is a first gen. Centeron mechanism unit would you be so kind as to share the date code, thank you. Another cool thing about that the Centeron units, not sure if of all, their bolts are stamped and "Shimano" is stamped on the side of the body, they cut costs on later versions.