Thinking about making a move.....thoughts?
03-24-13, 07:31 PM
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Thinking about making a move.....thoughts?
We're thinking about moving the Racing Forums out to the main page, as a category.
Inside would be:
with pointer links on the main index, like regional Forums has.
Inside would be:
- Juniors Club(For the Newbies and <23 crowd)
- The 33 (Officially named, "The 33", y the way....)
- Masters Club(50+)
with pointer links on the main index, like regional Forums has.
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
03-24-13, 08:11 PM
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I think one of the reasons to consider this is to open up the Masters sub-forum beyond 50+, and eliminate any stigma or hesitancy for those who are mature, racing Masters classes, but might not have hit 50 yet. Having it under the 50+ forum is overly limiting.
03-24-13, 08:25 PM
#3
Idiot Emeritus
Agreed!
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03-24-13, 08:53 PM
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Sure, might as well! Racing forum gets a promotion!
03-24-13, 08:54 PM
#5
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Would The 33 still be intended specifically as a road racing forum, or are you thinking of moving all racing sub forums into the fold?
Edit: Just curious.
Edit: Just curious.
03-24-13, 08:59 PM
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I know you're just curious, but I, for one, think that could be a great idea. Especially since so many of us race more than one discipline.
03-24-13, 09:12 PM
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Also agree. Personally I see quite a few threads in the 50+ racing thread that are relevant to me but I hesitate to post as I am not quite there yet.
03-24-13, 09:24 PM
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I like the idea. I would really enjoy the Junior section as it can get me closer to others that I can relate to better.
03-24-13, 09:51 PM
#10
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Personally, I've got no problem with occassionally piping in on a Masters 50+ thread, even though I'm not quite there yet. It's sort of like a 41/33 refuge, where the conversations tend to be more constructive and civil.
I would be more concerned with seeing a wheelbuidling sub-forum within Maintenance.
I would be more concerned with seeing a wheelbuidling sub-forum within Maintenance.
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03-24-13, 10:37 PM
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Personally, I've got no problem with occassionally piping in on a Masters 50+ thread, even though I'm not quite there yet. It's sort of like a 41/33 refuge, where the conversations tend to be more constructive and civil.
I would be more concerned with seeing a wheelbuidling sub-forum within Maintenance.
I would be more concerned with seeing a wheelbuidling sub-forum within Maintenance.
03-25-13, 07:24 AM
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when i see stuff like this, i wonder, will i have to do anything. i.e. will the button i click to get to road bike racing change? if the answer to that question is no = good. if the answer is yes, MDcatV, you'll have to reset some stuff, then i oppose. i would guess i'm not the only one thinking this way.
03-25-13, 07:45 AM
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Does that mean that I have to tone it down?
03-25-13, 07:50 AM
#16
Making a kilometer blurry
Just curious what the motivation would be for the change. I deal fine with change, but I'd hate to fragment the regulars on here.
03-25-13, 07:55 AM
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This question was asked here and in the 50+ racing forum. My answer is duplicated here.
In a utopian world, the proposed organization...new racers, racers, masters racers, makes a lot of sense. However, before any change is made, the history and culture of the existing forums should be reviewed.
New racers just aren't going to want to hang around with new racers. That's not how racer's minds work. It's always cat up, now. Get out of Cat5 as soon as possible. Everybody is sketchy except me. I'm sure that there are a few people out there contemplating racing that would like to hear from others that recently made the jump, but I think most would rather ask someone who has raced for a while. I also wonder how much Juniors and U23's will want to collaborate with themselves. So I just don't see a value for a U23 forum unless they have been asking for it. Steering threads to that subforum won't work unless we are going to be checking ID's.
The 33 is the 33. The signal to noise ratio is low. It can be snarky and sometimes nasty. People can get defensive. Piling on is common. But it is the default place for racers here. Everyone is welcome including new racers as long as they have thick skin. No amount of forum renaming or moving will change that culture. I have no problem with it, but somebody does, on a regular basis.
The 50+ racing forum is different. No thick skin is required. Snarky stuff is rare. It's a very friendly place to both newcomers and established racers. Looking in from the 33 it must look like the geriatric kiddie pool. That's fine, at least the water is warm and there aren't any sharks. If moving the forums would change this culture, then I'd be against it. BTW not everyone is 50+ in that forum.
My advice would be to leave the 33 alone and move the Masters 50+ Racing forum under Road Cycling and rename it to Masters Racing (30+).
In a utopian world, the proposed organization...new racers, racers, masters racers, makes a lot of sense. However, before any change is made, the history and culture of the existing forums should be reviewed.
New racers just aren't going to want to hang around with new racers. That's not how racer's minds work. It's always cat up, now. Get out of Cat5 as soon as possible. Everybody is sketchy except me. I'm sure that there are a few people out there contemplating racing that would like to hear from others that recently made the jump, but I think most would rather ask someone who has raced for a while. I also wonder how much Juniors and U23's will want to collaborate with themselves. So I just don't see a value for a U23 forum unless they have been asking for it. Steering threads to that subforum won't work unless we are going to be checking ID's.
The 33 is the 33. The signal to noise ratio is low. It can be snarky and sometimes nasty. People can get defensive. Piling on is common. But it is the default place for racers here. Everyone is welcome including new racers as long as they have thick skin. No amount of forum renaming or moving will change that culture. I have no problem with it, but somebody does, on a regular basis.
The 50+ racing forum is different. No thick skin is required. Snarky stuff is rare. It's a very friendly place to both newcomers and established racers. Looking in from the 33 it must look like the geriatric kiddie pool. That's fine, at least the water is warm and there aren't any sharks. If moving the forums would change this culture, then I'd be against it. BTW not everyone is 50+ in that forum.
My advice would be to leave the 33 alone and move the Masters 50+ Racing forum under Road Cycling and rename it to Masters Racing (30+).
03-25-13, 08:01 AM
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This question was asked here and in the 50+ racing forum. My answer is duplicated here.
In a utopian world, the proposed organization...new racers, racers, masters racers, makes a lot of sense. However, before any change is made, the history and culture of the existing forums should be reviewed.
New racers just aren't going to want to hang around with new racers. That's not how racer's minds work. It's always cat up, now. Get out of Cat5 as soon as possible. Everybody is sketchy except me. I'm sure that there are a few people out there contemplating racing that would like to hear from others that recently made the jump, but I think most would rather ask someone who has raced for a while. I also wonder how much Juniors and U23's will want to collaborate with themselves. So I just don't see a value for a U23 forum unless they have been asking for it. Steering threads to that subforum won't work unless we are going to be checking ID's.
The 33 is the 33. The signal to noise ratio is low. It can be snarky and sometimes nasty. People can get defensive. Piling on is common. But it is the default place for racers here. Everyone is welcome including new racers as long as they have thick skin. No amount of forum renaming or moving will change that culture. I have no problem with it, but somebody does, on a regular basis.
The 50+ racing forum is different. No thick skin is required. Snarky stuff is rare. It's a very friendly place to both newcomers and established racers. Looking in from the 33 it must look like the geriatric kiddie pool. That's fine, at least the water is warm and there aren't any sharks. If moving the forums would change this culture, then I'd be against it. BTW not everyone is 50+ in that forum.
My advice would be to leave the 33 alone and move the Masters 50+ Racing forum under Road Cycling and rename it to Masters Racing (30+).
In a utopian world, the proposed organization...new racers, racers, masters racers, makes a lot of sense. However, before any change is made, the history and culture of the existing forums should be reviewed.
New racers just aren't going to want to hang around with new racers. That's not how racer's minds work. It's always cat up, now. Get out of Cat5 as soon as possible. Everybody is sketchy except me. I'm sure that there are a few people out there contemplating racing that would like to hear from others that recently made the jump, but I think most would rather ask someone who has raced for a while. I also wonder how much Juniors and U23's will want to collaborate with themselves. So I just don't see a value for a U23 forum unless they have been asking for it. Steering threads to that subforum won't work unless we are going to be checking ID's.
The 33 is the 33. The signal to noise ratio is low. It can be snarky and sometimes nasty. People can get defensive. Piling on is common. But it is the default place for racers here. Everyone is welcome including new racers as long as they have thick skin. No amount of forum renaming or moving will change that culture. I have no problem with it, but somebody does, on a regular basis.
The 50+ racing forum is different. No thick skin is required. Snarky stuff is rare. It's a very friendly place to both newcomers and established racers. Looking in from the 33 it must look like the geriatric kiddie pool. That's fine, at least the water is warm and there aren't any sharks. If moving the forums would change this culture, then I'd be against it. BTW not everyone is 50+ in that forum.
My advice would be to leave the 33 alone and move the Masters 50+ Racing forum under Road Cycling and rename it to Masters Racing (30+).
) A second fear that would creep up is by making it more mainstream there is an influx of "Gran Fondo" racers that dilute the pool of contributors and make things more like the 41 with constant quibbling. I will own up that I derail a lot of stuff but am trying to grow up a little
- fact is the group is good, with little drama and many learn a bunch from its regulars.
03-25-13, 08:14 AM
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Speaking as an old guy who drops in here from time to time, this is a big attraction as far as I am concerned. The racers of all ages tend to have more in common with one another than with the average person who rides a road bike, whatever their age. And I can't see that the "Gran Fondo crowd" would be any more likely to post in a dedicated racing forum than in the 33 as it is now, given that they probably post in the 41 as things stand, and the new racing forum would be less in their line of sight.
I agree with shovel that new racers aren't likely to want to hang around in a juniors sub-forum for long. The only way that's going to work is if some experienced racers make it their business to hang around in that sub-forum to provide advice, answer questions etc. Which would be nice, but it may be difficult to make it happen.
So I guess I'm voting for turning the 33 into a stand-alone racing forum, and moving masters racing to be a sub- forum of that.
I agree with shovel that new racers aren't likely to want to hang around in a juniors sub-forum for long. The only way that's going to work is if some experienced racers make it their business to hang around in that sub-forum to provide advice, answer questions etc. Which would be nice, but it may be difficult to make it happen.
So I guess I'm voting for turning the 33 into a stand-alone racing forum, and moving masters racing to be a sub- forum of that.
03-25-13, 08:20 AM
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Taking a quick look through the other forums, the "new 33" would combine Cyclocross, Road, MTB, and Single Speed racing into one forum, with Masters separate. More dirt flavor for the 33. U23 would be new. Uncharted territory.
I can see both sides, and support whatever decisions are made.
I can see both sides, and support whatever decisions are made.
03-25-13, 08:26 AM
#23
out walking the earth
Junior is an age distinction, not a lack of ability. It's where they can get advice suited to where they are.