mjac

Do they offer the same flat protection? Some people here have trashed how the hard shells ride.

mjac

After Canklecat recommended Przewalski Bike Shorts to me, which turned out to be the greatest shorts and absolutely the greatest value on the planet, I have to listen to what he says. Anybody who has not tried these shorts really ought to.

Those Michelin Protek Cross Max Tires sound good.This is the first I have heard of them. It sounds like you believe they give just as much protection as the hard shell Gator Skins but with a much better ride and handling. The Gator Skins ride that bad? After reading what you said I realize there are many different levels of balancing flat protection and performance and that is up to the tastes of each particular rider and what he is looking for. I never realized that, there is not one size fits all, it is a personal thing. Like you said, when you are out for a performance ride, not running errands, you are willing to give up some flat protection reliability for the tire's road performance. For me flat protection reliability is always paramount without the tire rolling like a brick. Rolling resistance and shaving a few ounces would be lost on me. These Michelin Proteks really sound good.

CAT7RDR

The Gatorskin folding are 395 gms according to the Continental website while the hardshells are 460 gm. The hardshells offer the three ply protective layer to the entire tire while the folding is only where the tire meets the contact zone. Thus, the weight difference and perhaps a harsher ride due to a stronger sidewall.

alcjphil

Road tubeless requires that you use tubeless road tires. You cannot safely use a non tubeless road tire in a tubeless application. Non of those tires are designed for tubeless

mjac

Thanks,now I see, that's why they call them folding. Do you think the criticism of even the hard shells hard ride is overblown? Canklecat recommended Michelin Protek Cross Max with a Aramid Band that has very good puncture resistance, maybe as good as the Gators, but still has good handling ability. But I am afraid to look at the price.

mjac

I probably did not make myself very clear. I meant that if I can not get adequate flat protection performance out of my present tires using Flat Attack Sealent in the Tubes and Mr. Tuffy tire liners then I will try and buy either Gator Skins, Schwalbe Marathon Plus or Michelin Protek Cross Max in tubeless and inject the Flat Attack into that to eliminate any possibility of pinch flats and valve splits.

Edit: I reread your post and now realize you were saying none of those tire models come in tubeless, I did not know that.Well, I will have to try them as tubed tires if I can not get adequate performance from my present tires.

CAT7RDR

^^^^^ I ride my Gatorskin folding (28 mm) at 100 psi F/B (my weight 210 lbs) on urban streets and do not consider them harsh. The hardshells are rougher riding but that is expected. I am not familiar with the Michelin Protek Cross Max but the tread looks like an all terrain tire and I question whether that tread would not be ideal for smooth tarmac? They are almost twice as heavy 32 mm (750 mg) as the Gatorskin 28 mm folding and are a thick tread but on sale for $30 here:
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...-max-700c-tire

I cannot fit the smallest width 32 mm on my road bikes if that is a concern for you?

ups

https://tannusamerica.com

Tannus airless tires.

mjac

I had not looked into them until I clicked on your link, I was just going by Canklecat's word. I am surprised because the way he described it, the Aramid Band allowed the tire to remain slim, yet the 32mm weighs twice as much as a 28 mm Gator. I also did not know it starts at 32mm. I thought it was a road tire like 23 - 28. I do not know if a 32 would fit my bike. I have a 28 Bontreger, which happens to have a Aramid Band, when I put it on I will see what type of clearance I have with it. Maybe that will give me an idea. But from what I understand one manufactureres 28 is not another manufacturer's 28. For the money those gators might not be too bad but everybody goes on and on about trashing the ride.

Gconan

Bicycle rolling resistance

mjac

Thanks

An experienced rider can tell the rolling resistance difference between two tires while on the bike? I just want to stop flats. A flat tire has more rolling resistance then anything.

Gconan

I understand completely. The site does contain puncture ratings for a lot of tires.

mjac

I saw that. That should be interesting in comparing the puncture resistant tires I am looking at. I have to take a look at it. I did not think the chart would be that useful to me because I am not too critical on rolling resistance but then I saw the columns on puncture resistance, tire weight and tire thickness. Thanks,mjac

mjac

The Route

canklecat

Michelin Protek Cross Max tires are massively heavy, and not even available in skinny road bike sizes. This particular tire is best suited to errand bikes, some commuter bikes, and most-terrain riding -- pavement, gravel, some dry conditions off road. The 700x40 (nominal size, actually measures closer to 700x45) Protek Cross Max on my errand bike weighs about 1,200 gm each. Road bike tires usually weigh less than 400 gm, even the Gatorskins.

I haven't checked Michelin's current catalog, but here's a breakdown of their Protek lineup as of a year or so ago:

• Most of the lineup uses a variation of the familiar chevron tread pattern.
• Protek: Designates their standard Aramid puncture shield, 1mm, I think.
• Cross: Thicker chevron tread, not quite mountain bike knobbies, but excellent traction for most conditions other than mud or really loose crumbly soil. Thicker rubber tread adds weight and rolling resistance.
• Max: Adds their thickest 5mm Aramid puncture shield. The thicker shield adds some weight and rolling resistance, but less than a separate liner like the Tuffy, because the puncture shield is incorporated into the tire and resists squirming around wasting energy.

For most road bikes and sporty commuter hybrids, the 700x28 Protek Urban would be a good compromise. For bikes like mine limited to 700x25 or skinnier, I'd go for something like the Michelin Pro 4 or Power All Season. But for now I'm satisfied with the Continental Ultra Sport II (slicks) and Grand Prix Classic (which adds a bit of tread pattern) on my road bikes.

Between the Aramid fiber ("Kevlar") type puncture shields and thicker rubber shields, subjectively I'd say the Aramid fiber shields feel less sluggish. I have a couple of Continental Sport Contact II tires in 700x32 that I hoped would be a suitable replacement for the 700x42 SpeedRides I'd been using, but which were too wide for my old SKS Bluemel fenders. The two tires weighed about the same and the skinnier Sport Contact II had less aggressive tread so I figured it would roll a bit nicer. Nope. The thicker tread and rubber puncture shield felt really sluggish. After a couple of months I took off the Sport Contact II, fenders and went back to the SpeedRides.

But the Rolling Resistance site tests indicate the Conti Sport Contact II and Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard perform similarly, so I'd just buy whichever is less expensive. I got the Conti Sport Contact II pair for about $20 from Nashbar when it was closing shop a couple of years ago, so they were a very good value. I'll still find a use for them some day.

mstateglfr 

I dont think anyone would want to get flats that are avoidable. I honestly cant imagine someone saying 'yes, i want to have flats that are avoidable'.

A guy i ride with uses tannus tires- they are airless and solid core. he swears they ride just as well as pneumatic tires, but he also used to use gatorskins, so the usefulness of his opinion on ride quality is questionable at best. Tannus tires have a few different types of tire to account for the PSI people ride with. It helps, in theory, to mimic comfort due to rider weight variability.
Anyways- the only tire that wont flat is one that doesnt have air.

ramzilla

Lot of good suggestions here. IMHO the Conti Gators are one of the better/faster rolling heavy duty tires. In contrast to the Schwalbe Marathons. I have to pump my Schwalbes up to maximum +5% pressure to get them to roll fast. Some of the narrower Michelin Pro Tek are nice rolling tires. And, I like the rolling resistance of black wall Panaracer Paselas. One very tough heavy duty tire I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the Bontrager branded items. But, some of the Bontragers can be heavier and slower than even the Marathons. YMMV.

mjac

Well, people kept coming back at me with, " Flats are inevitable, you can not stop 100% of all flats." The attitude was why even try just bear with it and do repairs. They were willing to be exposed to higher vulnerability of flats for better performance in whatever terms you want to use, rolling resistance, handling, traction...and I respect that. But my position is, and it is my position not pushing it on anyone else, I wanted a tire system that eliminated as many flats as possible,no compromises, with at least descent, just descent, ride ability.Puncture Resistance was on the top of my list for a number of reasons which there is no use going into here. But it was important to me. Jokingly aside, what tire has the highest rolling resistance? A Flat one.

mjac

You bring up a few points that are important to me. Everyone just eviscerates the Gator's ride, but for a highly puncture resistant tire they don't seem that bad. They are not race tires, but they don't go flat either. They actually roll better then the Schwalbes according to your experience so they can not be God Awful. Michelin Pro Tech Tires start at 32mm. I thought they would have road sizes. Any shot for a 32mm tire to fit on a road bike? I am not familiar with Panaracer Paaselas but I think Canklecat mentioned them as being very good. In my collection of COOP Tire Wonders I have two Bontregers, one is a 23mm triple puncture protection and the other one is a 28mm with an Aramid Band. Either one of them any good. I am going to try and use these tires with Flat Atteack injected into the tubes and a Mr. Taffy Tire Liner and see what happens.

mjac

Yeah, I found that out when I looked into them. The way you described them, using the Aramid band to keep them slim, I thought they were road tires but they start at 32mm and a 32mm Cross Max weighs twice as much as a 28mm Gator. I have two Bontregers from the COOP, a 23mm with "triple flat protection" and the other one a 28mm with an Aramid Band, any good?

canklecat

Any skinny (28c or less) road tire with even the thinnest puncture shield will help. Specialized tires with their puncture shields (like the Armadillo) are a reasonable compromise between low rolling resistance and puncture resistance.

My set of Schwalbe One V-Guards were about as close to racing tires as you'll find in a clincher, and included a remarkably tough and effective paper thin puncture shield. By the 1,000-1,500 mile mark the tread was slashed to pieces by ordinary road debris, but even with the tube threatening to bulge through the avulsions the thin fiber shield kept everything intact. I had relatively few puncture flats with those tires. But because it was a race quality tread for weekend warriors and local crit racers, in a handy clincher style, the tread was designed to be fast, smooth rolling and not for longevity. When first introduced around 2014 the Schwalbe One V-Guard was tested at around 12 watts rolling resistance at maximum recommended pressure, which was considered really low for the time. I'd buy 'em again at a reasonable price and save 'em for rides when I'm feeling frisky and want to tackle a PR or KOM (not that I'll ever snag the latter, but a feller can try).

Now there are some race-ish clinchers rated as low as 10 watts, but those are mostly set up for tubeless.

Speaking of which, I'm seriously considering one of Mavic's entry level wheelsets that include a pair of tires designed for those wheels. The YouTube demos look good, much less hassle than some tubeless setups a few years ago. I though tubes with sealant -- at least Slime brand -- were more trouble than they were worth. But demos of tubeless setups with deliberate punctures to show how quickly the sealant works look pretty good.

ramzilla

I'm using Michelin Pro Teks on my upright hybrid bicycle. They have a nice simple chevron tread pattern and a distinctive reflective sidewall. I guess they're around 32mm. (I'll have to go out & look). They roll nice & smooth at 80psi. I like them a lot. They perform very well compared to other similar sized tires. As good or better than the Schwalbe Marathon IMHO. But, I don't think they're going to fit most racing style bicycles. They're not that wide but, do have a tall profile. Would probably have trouble clearing the brake bridge on some bikes.

Jbo26

I think some good questions to ask are: What type of roads are you riding on? How often are you getting flat tires? Do you use tire levers to put the tubes and tires back on the rims? What psi do you ride on?

Morg33

Oh thank you so much for this thread, a lot of very interesting informations

DaveSSS 

I really like my Michelin power endurance tires. They ride much better than gator skins. I keep a close eye on the road in an effort to avoid broken glass. I've logged 6000 miles without a flat.