Danmozy66

I am trying to decide which groupset to put on my specialized allez frame (1995 I think) and I am hoping you guys can offer me your opinions.

I have two other Specialized Allez bikes that quite don't fit me, and that third 1995 frame that does fit. I am trying to decide which components to harvest from the first two before I swap and sell them off and keep the third 1995 one. The two other bikes are from 1993 and 1994 respectively and all original.

Question is - which components should I harvest? Either:

Shimano 600 tricolor group, hubs, and STI shifters ('93 Allez PRO bike)?

or

Campagnolo veloce group, hubs, ergo shifters ('94 Allez COMP bike)?

According to the catalogs (links below) the '93 Shimano 600 STI Allez PRO setup is one step above that of the Campy Veloce of the '94 Allez COMP (2nd link below).

But is the campy really that much worse than the 600 setup? This Campy veloce (low-ish end) package was only offered '94 one year as far as I know. The shifters feel more robust and deliberate which I like, but the whole bike (wheels?) seems to roll slower than the '93 PRO. For some reason. Could be the '93 veloce setup has crappier tires. Or maybe it’s wheels/slower hubs?

I know it mostly comes down to personal preference, but I am indecisive and don't have one at this point.

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...kes93.pdf.html (Allez PRO - 2nd last page for parts list)

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/..._Mini.pdf.html (Allez COMP - last page for parts list)

(update - links aren't working? Try this https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...ve/Catalogues/)

However, I'm noticing that the Shimano 600 STI shifters are a bit less robust feeling, and I've just read that if they break (which I'm afraid of, since I'm pretty hard on my gear and they're definitely starting to look their age) you're SOL i.e. they can't be rebuilt/fixed easily. And after taking a look on eBay they seem to be pretty pricey/tough to source on their own without buying another complete bike.

The campy ergo shifters on the other hand can be rebuilt and serviced more easily as far as I understand. But they might be more clunky/heavy. Anyone know? Both Shimano STI and Campy ergo are for 8 speed.

Other than personal preference and functionality differences for the shifters (I don't have a real preference here), which set up should I go with? They are both in equal 'mediocre plus' condition.

Some primary considerations would be opinions on overall quality of components, their total weight, which wheels/hubs are better, and future maintenance factor and ease of buying new cassettes in the future etc.

Anything else to consider? Let me know which set you think I should keep!



1994 Allez COMP with campy veloce

veloce omega 19 36 hole


campy ergo shifter


Shimano STI shifter

1993 Allez PRO

Older type veloce hubs - how do these compare to 600?

mgopack42 

I have a 1994 Allez (not comp or pro or any modifier) that came with a full Campagnolo Ergo Stratus group set. I've since lost the cranks, FR and RR ders. to "upgrade" to a racing T triple setup. I think that Stratus was the bottom of the barrel at the time. the catalog I found (auf Duetsch) shows the comp having Veloce and the Pro having Ultegra..

plonz 

I would opt for the group with the better shift performance. I would expect that to be the tricolor group although I have no personal experience with Veloce STIs (or any Campy STI for that matter). Aesthetics could also be a factor. I think the darker finish of the tricolor group works better on more vibrant colors.

Danmozy66

yes exactly, that’s what the catalogue I linked says. so the veloce at least isn’t the lowest end one...

PugRider

The only bike with a Campy Ergo setup I've ever ridden was an 8-speed on a Bianchi Eros I refreshed for a friend. I just loved how the front shifter was more of a friction/microadjust, particularly since it was a triple. Probably the only time I've ever said to myself 'why didn't Shimano think of this?' It was just lovely.

Danmozy66

good point. I like that as well

SJX426 

I would go with the Campagnolo. I converted DA 740x on my Pinarello to Campy Chorus 8 speed. I have not rebuilt the Ero's yet. I have rebuilt 2nd get Ergos without much problem. Don't know about Veloce level parts.
The Pin had DT 8V index which shifted great for DT. I was interested in converting to Brifters. What held me back was the appearance with the cable coming out the side, the disposable attribute and the cost in the Bay.

If I was going to spend the money on used parts, it was going to be something I can fix or repair. Found a nice used set for under $100 in good condition. A Pin should be Campagnolo anyway. The hubs have not been replaced due to finding a spacer set for the DA block to match the 9V RD I also purchased. I am rebuilding tubular wheels for it with a Record rear hub.
I am biased toward Campy and freely admit it. It works for me.

Your call, of course.

I have a Trek 760 getting Superbe Pro index. I would like to try SRAM on that bike.

easyupbug 

From you list of "primary considerations":
overall quality- I am unfamiliar with Velose and the plastic aged paddles so would probably go 600 which are in many cases are repairable like Campagnolo, but if it were Chorus it would be an easy choice.
weight- not a weight weenie so can't help
wheels- this one is purely a guess as to their condition, Shimano parts are generally easier to find
parts- Shimano everything is generally easier to find for me but exceptions exist, I bought two Wheels manufacturing spacer kits for Shimano 8 speed cassettes spaced for Campagnolo and am very happy. I think Brandford Bike may have them.

Dfrost 

+1 to these thoughts, and the front shift simplicity of Ergo as noted in the post by PugRider .

Love my Ergo shifters, and Shimano cogs/cassette hubs with conversion spacers. Note that a slightly longer lock ring is useful with the conversion, since the resulting cassette “height” is greater. Miche lock rings often work if the Wheels Mfg aren’t Available.

The Golden Boy 

I'm curious about this photo- Are those your feet? If so, how did you curl around to get that shot? Or did you take the photo over a body that was laying on the floor?

Curious... intrigued... kinda worried...

icemilkcoffee 

If those Campy brakes are single pivot brakes I would skip over the Campy group just for that reason alone.

billytwosheds 

That's a low end Campagnolo group that while more rebuildable, isn't going to serve you as well as that tri color kit will.

If you want to work with what you have, the Shimano group is probably better in this case.

Dfrost 

Maybe I‘m only person that thinks it’s wonderful, even desirable to combine Shimano dual pivot brake calipers with Ergo shifters. Love having brake QR on both shifter and caliper. Let’s me open them wider to easily pass 32-33mm tires through the brake pads. Haven't gotten a ticket yet from the C&V correctness police yet.

Danmozy66

Yes I thought it was awesome when I discovered that feature on the ergo shifters.

Danmozy66

only trying to put my best foot forward when making this tough decision. And yoga my man, does wonders for cycling

John E

I have Campy single pivots on the Bianchi. They were horrid until I switched to KoolStop pads and (Shimano) aero brake levers. Now they are actually pretty good.

Danmozy66

Thanks for the insights, easyup. But I'm a bit confused were you suggesting either the campy or 600 tricolor group? You said 600, but that you love your campagnolo with the wheels manufacturing kit which could be an intriguing rationale to stick with campy 8's. And the pedals and crank aren't plastic what did you mean by that?

Danmozy66

Re the brakes question that was asked I'm not sure if the brakes are single pivot. As for campy this group being low end, I agree I don't love the crank and FD/RD the look pretty low end. However I've just read on velobase that these particular ergo shifters were actually used for the Record line at the time, if I'm reading correctly. Also surprisingly they are showing them as weighing 1/3 less than the 600 STI shifters. So if I upgraded the crank and FD/RD over time would this eventually be a pretty sweet setup or is the 600 tricolor the better all around proven and desirable choice?

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo EC-12RE CG, Record

Danmozy66

Hm, found the retrobike catalogue for 1994 showing Veloce second to last in the line above only Stratos at the bottom. Think I'm leaning with the tricolor option.

However I am correct interpreting that the omega 19 campy wheels was their top wheel product (see 1995 catalogue)? Seem like pretty sweet wheels. That's keeping me interested over the specialized "aurora matrix" wheels. Hence the tough choice!

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/d/3336-3/1994.pdf
https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...lo+Catalog.pdf

easyupbug 

Sorry I was not clear. I have an Ironman with 600 and don't think I am missing anything and had a Viscount with 600 for years that was also nice. I have a Pinarello with all Campagnolo that got a new set of Reynolds wheels as an idiot drilled out the valve stem hole oversize so I need to lace a new rim on it and have not gotten around to it. I can feel no difference with the 8 speed spacer Wheels Mfg kit on the Reynolds Shimano/Sram wheels. The plastic I don't like is the shift paddle on the Athena 8 speed brake/shifter. It is no doubt irrational as it has a lot of miles on it, works fine and the Campagnolo thumb button is always plastic.

billytwosheds 

I don't think this is being read correctly. The Record and Chorus shifters are the most similar, but these Veloce shifters are not the same.

The lower tier ergopower shifters from this era have more plastic parts, both internal and external. The black plastic shift levers are maybe the most obvious giveaway.

Danmozy66

Did you read the description at the bottom about the black variation?

billytwosheds 

Yeah, and it's good to take the comments on Velobase with a grain of salt. Most of the time it's personal anecdotes, sometimes they end up being true.

See the exploded parts diagrams from Record/Chorus and from Veloce, both from the 1993 catalog.

Record/Chorus: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1993 Product Range page 48

Veloce: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1993 Product Range page 49

Subtle but important differences.

Danmozy66

Ah good tip, thank you.

Curious - does anyone know if would they have typically used the same bottom bracket from all three trims, i.e. allez, allez comp, allez pro, back then? Catalogues don't seem to list this and it would be nice to know before swapping. And does anyone happen to know how I can find a 1995 Specialized catalogue? There isn't one on retro bike. I think I might throw it out there in a separate thread as well.

Danmozy66

Ah gotcha, I should have knew you meant the shifter paddle. OK what about hubs-wise with your campy vs the 600, does the pinarello seem roll discernibly any better?