2_i 

Sounds good. Myself, I could not not justify the cost of having two such tools. After I found that I needed to get a second such tool to cope with the described circumstances, I sold my highly rated Shimano. Incidentally smaller wheeled bikes run more often into bent hanger problems, due to their low mounted derailleurs.

WizardOfBoz

You have to realize that Andy has been at this for 45 years, has run shops and I think owned them, and has built extremely high quality bike frames. If what he says is at odds with your thinking, it's probably worth examining your thinking. He's reoriented (corrected) a few statements I've made, and I'm an insufferably overconfident engineer.

If there's an obvious issue with the RD parallelogram I think it makes sense to fix that as part of the process. If you don't no amount of wrenching on the hanger will help.

WizardOfBoz

Having said this, I'm betting that the hand-scraped surface plate in Andy's basement is cast iron, not steel. Am I correct, Andy? How big is that sucker?

Kapusta

What? I never said you should not fix a bent parallelogram.

I also never said a DAG would single handedly cure all alignment issues.

Just because it can’t fix every problem does not make it a “stupid” tool.

This line of discussion is getting beyond ridiculous.

Kapusta

I got by for years without one, but since 10 and especially 11 speeds started showing up in our stable, the DAG is some of the best money I’ve spent.

scott967

No experience with it, but the Wolf Tooth "Pack Hanger" tool might be worth checking out. It aligns using the axle not the rim. Downside is you need kit for QR and TA to use it on both.

scott s.
.

Andrew R Stewart 

I'll try one last time to be clear. I never said i try bending a der before or after doing a hanger alignment. Where you got that impression...

But I can see obvious cage/cog planar misalignment. As i did mention there are times where said misalignment is very minor and ultimately judged by the der's shifting performance BTW, not any tool's. Said misalignments due to der manufacturing tolerances generally gets less the higher up the cost chain one buys into. Not completely gone in nearly every case but usually small enough so the floating guide pulley can fudge it out of being an issue (why do you think Shimano added a more complex/costly pullet to begin with?)

But those of us in the LBS trenches work on all levels of equipment, generally vastly more moderate or entry level stuff then DA or Ultegra. I have tried to avoid playing the class card best I can as the laws of physics apply regardless of race, color or cost. What's applicable in basic understandings to Tourney is also applicable to DA. If someone here says otherwise then they need to find a different forum to spew their class rated crap. (Yes, I know no one in this thread has gone that far, thankfully).

Trained eyes can pick up on very small discrepancies. Simple visual aids (like a ruler placed between the cogs) can help this too. Doing the same job hundreds of times does allow one (if motivated well) to improve their skills and observational abilities. But I do understand the inability for some to agree with practice/skill based results, in today's digital world an analog approach is so hard to wrap one's mind around sometimes (hence my ":critical thinker" reference before). So many are trained to get answers from a tool. an app, from Google and not learn how to explore and understand the issues in a way that opens up doors.

I generally have a three and done guideline with replying to threads. This is number 4 here. If some of you still can't understand what I'm trying to convey take this off line and PM me directly, I have no need to waste other's time and band width beating this horse. Unless this thread explores a new aspect I'm done. Andy

Andrew R Stewart 

Jim you hit the bingo button. It is cast steel. Had real fine chips when drilling the through holes for the BB and fork whipping posts. 3'x2' and likely about 300lbs. What i call a 6 pack move item, Three friends and a six pack of good beer. Were I to do it again I'd find a way to handle a 3'x4' or larger so the entire frame could be over the surface. Andy (see this was a shift in topic)

tgot 

Is that bolt threaded to go into a derailleur mount, and the long lever gives both alignment indication and bending control?

woodcraft

Now, thanks to you and youtube, I know way more than I did before about hand-scraping a surface plate.

easyupbug 

The one I fabricated is similar and does what you asked. I also do as Andy suggested with a straight edge placed between the cogs which I have found really helps my old eyes judging alignment to get things shifting as they should.

u235

Yes and yes. Threads are M10x1.0 fine thread. Makes more sense when you use it but the der hanger bolt is not centered on the wheel axle so you have to manually slide your distance reference to the wheel up and down the angle iron while you rotate around to different points to compensate. I use a small ruler.
The nylon/plastic washers and locknut are an attempt to allow the angle iron to spin relatively easy but prevent it from wobble which would give error in your readings, all without turning the actual bolt in or out of the derailleur. Square stock would be a better choice over angle iron for that. The washer hanging on the end is to spread the load of any correction along a larger portion of the hanger not just at the threads (although commercial made der tools do not always have that washer but to me seems to make sense to have it). It is not a precision instrument but it has 100% fixed bent hangers for me and corrected bent hanger shifting symptoms. I've also had derailleurs that were out of whack that no hanger manipulation could fix.

tgot 

Thank you! I may need one of those someday.

tgot 

Thanks! My freewheel wobble is enough that I'd worry about using those as a reference. But good to know how to create the tool.

davidad

I have the VAR tool. Before I bought it I used an extra rear wheel screwed into the Der hanger to check and then make parallel. The hanger takes a 10mm bolt.

WizardOfBoz

You may have learned, or not, that it was Sir Joseph Whitworth (the same guy responsible for the thread form used on Raleighs a while back) that invented the process of generating those surface plates.