Casey Jones

I know I should be posting photos, but I haven't had a chance to take them. Hopefully I can get some posted either tonight or tomorrow. Here is my dillema:

I bought a bike yesterday but I'm having a hard time identifying it. It is a schwinn and seems to fit the description of a voyaguer of some sort, but... it has a Paramount front badge(looks original), Nervex BB Shell and lugs, no braze-on's for bottles, touring handlebars and stem(Stem still has the original sticker form the bike shop), Bar end shifters, 7 speed touring cassette and triple crank. I counted the spokes on the front and got 36 but haven't checked the rear yet. It does have a rack, but I am not sure it it is original.

Any thoughts?

I know I know...you need pictures....

blaise_f

Pictures.


Sounds like a Paramount Touring (or whatever they call it - not a P15). Could be a 74 Voy II I guess? Where's the serial on it? Pictures. Pictures.


Really though, we need some pictures to be able to know for sure. There's no other way.

ColonelJLloyd 

No Voyageur was ever built with Nervex lugs of which I'm aware. What makes you think it's not a Paramount? They were available as "touring" models.

Casey Jones

PS: It has a chrome fork and chrome forged drop-outs.

Casey Jones

It is definatley possible. I just couldn't find anything online about paramount touring models.

Scooper

What's the serial number? That should tell us what it is, but from the description (Nervex lugs) I'd guess it's a Paramount except the 7-speed cassette wouldn't have been original to a Nervex lugged Paramount. The P15-9 Deluxe Touring Paramount had a Campy triple crank and Nervex Professional lugs.

My '72 chrome P15-9:

Casey Jones

Serial number is on the bottom of the BB shell it also has another number written smaller, and says nervex on the shell. I am at work so I'll have to wait until tonight to post it and hopefully the pictures too. The crankset is made in France, but I don't remember the name. It also has V brakes if that helps any. It is much lighter than I expected and I got it for $60. It needs paint and tires but is otherwise in good condition.

pastorbobnlnh 

Any bike with "Paramount" on the headbadge for $60 is a steal! Are the V-Brakes actually cantilever calipers? Is it an MTB Paramount?

cudak888 

From the description, I'm almost certain this is a heavily modified, pre-1967 Paramount P13 with added cantilevers and a respaced rear triangle. Chrome forks are either replacements, or someone had the originals chromed (or they were 1/2 chromed, 1/2 painted, and stripped at the top). Either that, or the whole shebang is a special-order Paramount.

The "serial number" on the Nervex BB shell is the combination of lug socket angle measurements. The factory S/N should be on the left rear dropout.

-Kurt

Casey Jones

.Here we go. i left work early so I could go ahead and do this. On the left rear drop out the only number is g70. The BB has two sets of number s. One looks like measurement, and the other is as follows, OR2353990DL. The brakes are infact Cantilever, not v-brakes.

cudak888 

Highly-modified mid-1961 Paramount (or special order - though I doubt it) with a rechromed original fork. Unlikely to have been an all-chrome frame, seeing as the fork would have required re-chroming after the canti posts were mounted.

Looks like she could use a lot of tender loving care.

Did someone braze a second set of eyelets to the front dropouts?

-Kurt

Casey Jones

there is only one set of eyelets on the front dropouts

Casey Jones

Thanks for all of the info. any additional would be greatly appreciated. What about the stem? It seems original because it still has the bike shop sticker on it. The front derailluer is a suntour and the cranks are Specialites. Any idea if these are original? I know suntour made a large range of derailluers form low end to high end. The rear derailleur has to be upgraded. it looks like something from the nineties. Any Ideas what it might be worth? i may try to paint it and sell it or sell it as is. Thanks!

wrk101

Stem should have a date code on it, does not look original to me, and looks quite a bit newer. I would consider that rear derailleur to be a downgrade, rathher than an upgrade. Painting that era Paramount is a major undertaking to do right, without lowering its value. Suntour derailleur will have a date code on it as well.

illwafer

this could really turn into an awesome before/after.

Casey Jones

I think I have decided to make it an awesome before after. I am going to sell my Bianchi Strada and get to work on this paramount. It has so many mods that I am not even going to worry about keeping it original, but instead make it my own. the cantilever brakes will be great for putting some fatter touring tires on it. Do you guys know if it would have had chrome lugs? If so I may attempt to restor them. I can get the paint to look good. I have fairly extensive experience painting, and have painted several frames with much success. My goal at this point is to have a cool bike that I like to ride. PS: I also think that the rear derailer is a downgrade. It looks like what was on my first mountain bike that I got when I was 10.

Casey Jones

Also, If anyone is interested in a Bianchi strada (it is one of the better ones with the chrmo frame and fork). It is in awesome shape with original Bianchi seat. here is a pic, but the Brooks saddle is going on the Paramount.

Jeff Wills

Absolutely true. It's a mongrel of Paramount frame and newer-by-40-years components. For a "resto-mod" bike, I'd install a set of wheels with Phil Wood freewheel hubs and Velo-Orange rims, a Nitto stem, and a '70's Shimano Crane rear derailleur.

cudak888 

One thing though - I'd like to see a full side shot of it, just to make sure that thing hasn't been in a front-ender. This existing side photo worries me just a bit, though I'm not sure my worry is entirely warranted:



It would be wise to share a better side photo anyway - just in case. Also some photos of the underside of the headlugs.

-Kurt

Scooper

Kurt nailed it. 1961 highly modified Paramount.

Great find!

cudak888 

Oh - before I forget - would you be interested in adding it to the Paramount Registry?

I always like the addition of these modified or non-standard frames; they're unique in a sea of unmodified production machines. My favorite in the Registry at the moment is L72309, which was done up with pinstriping that looks as if it was done at George Barris' shop in the '50s. Fantastic!

-Kurt

photogravity

And for only $60!! Paint me jealous... I can only imagine what a sweet ride that baby would be with a modern IGH bolted onto the rear dropouts! Holy mackerel, just the thought has me sweating in anticipation. Alas, I'm sure that's not in the plans for this machine. <sigh>

The Golden Boy 

I REALLY dig the crank and rings!

Great score- ride it gloriously!

Scooper

According to the 1961 Dealer catalog Paramount page, the Paramount could be ordered that year with one of two extra cost chrome options - (a) Partial: fork crown and sides, rear forks, stays and head lugs; or (b) full chrome. I believe the catalog photo shows the all paint standard version with the head lugs and fork crown painted a contrasting color.

Casey Jones

I'm getting excited too. It does not appear to have been in a collision of any kind. there is a small dent on the top tube and that it the only damage to the frame. A bit of surface rust too. The fork appears to be originally chromed, but I can not tell that the cantilevers weer added as there are still holes for the original brakes. I have a pretty nice set of aluminum Araya's with decent hubs that I will probably put on it for now and upgrade to some touring tires. I am tempted to steal some parts from my Specialized Roubaix when I upgrade it. It is a triple, and I prefer a double in a road bike, so I may take the Shimano 105 triple crankset for this project. It is a 50/42/32 but I currently have a 53 large ring on it. I do like the crank that is one it also though. it is a tough decision. It has been stretched for a 7 speed in the rear, so I may go ahead and push it alittle wider and add my 10 speed casette and 105 long cage derailleur from the Roubaix. Then I just need a new clamp for the 105 front derailleur and I'll be all set. Any other ideas? I am getting no work done today.

I'll try to get a better side pic soon.