Frame ID help, please
#1
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
Frame ID help, please
Can anyone help to ID this frame? This bike is for sale at a local co-op, frame has been repainted with no stampings other than the bb serial number. Mostly Campy drive train with Campy dropouts. Size is 59cm and they're asking $220, in case anyone is interested. I can get other photos if they would be helpful- just let me know.
Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
It does give me a bit of an Italian vibe. But, only mid-level. Did you catch the bottombracket threading?
#4
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times
in
2,517 Posts
Atala, what do I win?
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,262
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 3,336 Times
in
2,176 Posts
-----
The domed stay ends would tend to eliminate an Oytoy origin.
IIRC this shell may be from Fischer but @MauriceMoss is sure to know the scoop!
-----
The domed stay ends would tend to eliminate an Oytoy origin.
IIRC this shell may be from Fischer but @MauriceMoss is sure to know the scoop!
-----
#6
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,582
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
They are BCM (Bocama) Serie Super-Leger Luxe headlugs, so I'm sticking with my "Benelux" guess for now...still need the BB threading and seatpost size, or just have @MauriceMoss chime in!
#7
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
OK- thanks guys. I'll measure the seatpost on Tuesday, and see if they want to pull the BB to check threading.
Stand by.
Stand by.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4510 Post(s)
Liked 6,377 Times
in
3,667 Posts
#9
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
"Gacked" as in bent, or ? I didn't notice anything in person- perhaps it's the cheesy iPhone photos? I'll have another look.
Thanks.
Thanks.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4510 Post(s)
Liked 6,377 Times
in
3,667 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4510 Post(s)
Liked 6,377 Times
in
3,667 Posts
Also forgot, whatever it is, it's pretty nice, at $220 I would have come home with it regardless of ding, didn't see the price originally, I would encourage you to make it so, stat.
#12
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
Merziac - I took that bright spot right under the headset cup to be from cable rub - I'll look closer this coming Tuesday. I would have grabbed it, but it's too big for me (59 c-t-c), and I'm trying to be better about buying stuff I can't ride <G>.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522
Bikes: None in ridable condition
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times
in
192 Posts
@unworthy1 is spot on with the lug ID.
My first hunch was Belgium/Netherlands, too. However, seeing the bottom bracket shell made me think in another direction.
I'm leaning towards this being an early 80s Puch (Mistral) Replica or maybe Superlicht.
Some of these had 7 digit numbers stamped into the bottom bracket shell (in addition to the ones in OP's pics) but some apparently didn't. I'm not sure what the non-serial numbers actually mean.
Anyways, here are some pics:
Replica:
Superlicht:
Some bottom bracket shells:
My first hunch was Belgium/Netherlands, too. However, seeing the bottom bracket shell made me think in another direction.
I'm leaning towards this being an early 80s Puch (Mistral) Replica or maybe Superlicht.
Some of these had 7 digit numbers stamped into the bottom bracket shell (in addition to the ones in OP's pics) but some apparently didn't. I'm not sure what the non-serial numbers actually mean.
Anyways, here are some pics:
Replica:
Superlicht:
Some bottom bracket shells:
#14
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times
in
2,517 Posts
Good catch, that has to be what the OP's bike is.
maybe left is size or model and right is date code?
maybe left is size or model and right is date code?
#15
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
Now we're gettin' somewhere- thanks!
#16
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,582
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
Yeah Mr. Moss is the MAN! Excellent sleuthing (as we take for granted from Maurice) and nice bikes these Austrians, often have longer than usual top tubes for folks with tall torso and certainly some combo of 531 DB tubing...buy it!
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4510 Post(s)
Liked 6,377 Times
in
3,667 Posts
Ahh, right you are, can see it way better on the big screen, doh!
#18
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 2,569 Times
in
1,073 Posts
They are BCM (Bocama) Serie Super-Leger Luxe headlugs, so I'm sticking with my "Benelux" guess for now...still need the BB threading and seatpost size, or just have @MauriceMoss chime in!
Borrowed without permission from https://anciensveloslyonnais.weebly.com/bocama.html
-an awesome resource, check 'em out. (I'm new here; someone let me know if that kinda borrowing is not cool.)
I think the BB shell is RGF (Raccords Gargatte Frères or just Gargatte for short.)
Instantly distinguishable by the large RGF in an oval, stamped into the top left -- unless someone brazed a big ol' cable guide fitting right over the stamped letters. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
-Mark Bulgier, Seattle
#19
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,582
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
Whoa! Mark Bulgier has joined our little group! ^ WELCOME Mark, your reputation proceeds you!^
I did not know the "Gargle Bros" made a slotted shell like that, but there's a lot I don't know.
I think "borrowing" images for non-profit use on this forum is A-OK but I always try to give credit when I do, but I only play a Lawyer on TV!
So sticking my neck out (or my foot into it): here's a pic of a RGF shell with the slots going the "wrong way" reproduced without permission from the interwebs but this is fully copyright Dale Brown because it's originally from Classic Rendezvous site and Dale is very sensitive about maintaining his copyright!
Well on cross-exam it turns out these images were already "borrowed" from Velobase so don't think Dale and CR could claim copyright on them anyway, but at least CR did give credit, so...your honor I move to dismiss, ipso facto!
Last edited by unworthy1; 02-26-19 at 07:24 PM. Reason: new info
#20
Somewhat slow older guy
Thread Starter
And- I left tonight without putting a mic on the seatpost- sorry!
We'll accept the Puch ID as "close enough."
Thanks to everyone for the help!
We'll accept the Puch ID as "close enough."
Thanks to everyone for the help!