Vintage TDF question
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Vintage TDF question
Did vintage TDF (Tour de France) riders use bar end shifters on their bikes? I have not seen any video of TDF riders in the 1980's using bar end shifters. Were bar end shifters "inferior" to down tube shifters?
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I don't know if Barcons were used in the TdF. In my mind, the down tube shifter is much lighter and sports dramatically shorter cable runs with fewer curves. The weight thing does improve competitive performance (very slightly) and the shorter straighter cable run will improve shifting, thanks to the reduction of cable to cable casing friction. Other than that, don't have much more to offer except that I much prefer the bar ends to down tubes but I don't ride in a competitive sense and never have.
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I don't know if Barcons were used in the TdF. In my mind, the down tube shifter is much lighter and sports dramatically shorter cable runs with fewer curves. The weight thing does improve competitive performance (very slightly) and the shorter straighter cable run will improve shifting, thanks to the reduction of cable to cable casing friction. Other than that, don't have much more to offer except that I much prefer the bar ends to down tubes but I don't ride in a competitive sense and never have.
#4
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Reaching down and shifting was a sign to all those around you that you were about to do something and they had time to react.
Bar end shifters were seen as a bit stealthy and one could shift while holding the bars without anyone knowing.
As far as whether they were in the tdf or not the videos of old tdf certainly have quite a few bar end shifters in them.
Bar end shifters were seen as a bit stealthy and one could shift while holding the bars without anyone knowing.
As far as whether they were in the tdf or not the videos of old tdf certainly have quite a few bar end shifters in them.
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Bar end shifters were used in the Tour and all the other major races in days past. In the early development of Shimano STI some racers favored a bar end shifter for the front derailleur or stuck with a downtube shifter (left side only) so they could have complete control over trimming the cage. Bar end shifters were also used extensively on the TT bikes but have now been replaced by electric shifting for the most part.
Last edited by nomadmax; 09-05-19 at 08:54 AM.
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But sometimes, cycling history just provides wonderful mysteries. In the current Bicycle Quarterly, Aldo Ross examines why, during the 1949 Tour de France, dozens of riders converted their bikes to bar-end shifters – like Louis Caput (right rider) in the photo below. Neither Aldo nor I can think of another component that suddenly was adopted by so many riders, not before or after, but during a big race.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...cling-history/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...cling-history/
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#7
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Campy Barcons
Both Simplex and Huret produced bar end shift levers for a long time - up into the mid 70's. I don't recall ever seeing any photos of barcons on a bike in European competition but the photos posted above prove me wrong...
@Narhay I tried Campy barcons in 1974 when I first tried my hand at racing. The idea was that you could make a quick shift in the pack to make a breakaway jump without alerting the other riders... or so it was thought!
For me, I switched back to down tube levers after several rides because shifting with those levers tended to torque my bars from one side or the other making the bike hard to control in a close bunch.
They sat in a drawer of Campy stuff for years until I put together this early 60's Paragon (US) frame made for barcons.
I guess that I figured out how to adjust them because they shift much better now. The only problem is it takes me a while on the bike to remember which direction to move the levers to shift.
Paragon frames were built by Lars Zebroski in Northern California in the early 60's. He was a member of the 1960 US Olympic Team at the Rome Olympics. After the games he stayed on to race in Italy as an amateur for a while.
When he returned to the US he started building frames and later partnered up with Hugh Enox another early California builder. They produced between 30 and 300 frames during that time???
Lars Zebroski on a Paragon frame in a 1964 NorCal TT - Regular DT levers.
Michael Hiltner (Victor Vincente of America) was also a member of the 1960 US Olympic Team and rode a Paragon frame for a while - 1965 photo - DT levers also.
verktyg
@Narhay I tried Campy barcons in 1974 when I first tried my hand at racing. The idea was that you could make a quick shift in the pack to make a breakaway jump without alerting the other riders... or so it was thought!
For me, I switched back to down tube levers after several rides because shifting with those levers tended to torque my bars from one side or the other making the bike hard to control in a close bunch.
They sat in a drawer of Campy stuff for years until I put together this early 60's Paragon (US) frame made for barcons.
I guess that I figured out how to adjust them because they shift much better now. The only problem is it takes me a while on the bike to remember which direction to move the levers to shift.
Paragon frames were built by Lars Zebroski in Northern California in the early 60's. He was a member of the 1960 US Olympic Team at the Rome Olympics. After the games he stayed on to race in Italy as an amateur for a while.
When he returned to the US he started building frames and later partnered up with Hugh Enox another early California builder. They produced between 30 and 300 frames during that time???
Lars Zebroski on a Paragon frame in a 1964 NorCal TT - Regular DT levers.
Michael Hiltner (Victor Vincente of America) was also a member of the 1960 US Olympic Team and rode a Paragon frame for a while - 1965 photo - DT levers also.
verktyg
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 09-05-19 at 04:55 AM.
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#8
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OK Chas., I am going to good-naturedly razz you about the length of your brake cables, since others did that to me when I first built the 1959 Capo after repainting.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
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#9
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How else do you propose setting a rabbit snare or two using only parts on your bike and still making it home?
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#10
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It can be hard to make out at times, but one of the riders of interest in "Stars and Watercarriers" had bar-ends. Been a while, so I don't remember which one.
#11
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Paragon frames were built by Lars Zebroski in Northern California in the early 60's. He was a member of the 1960 US Olympic Team at the Rome Olympics. After the games he stayed on to race in Italy as an amateur for a while.
When he returned to the US he started building frames and later partnered up with Hugh Enox another early California builder. They produced between 30 and 300 frames during that time???
When he returned to the US he started building frames and later partnered up with Hugh Enox another early California builder. They produced between 30 and 300 frames during that time???
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I asked the same thing when I started riding.
The racer that was coaching us newbees said that it was too easy for your competition to reach over and swat you into the wrong gear on the road or climb.
Those were the days! They would have it on tape from three different angles today.
The racer that was coaching us newbees said that it was too easy for your competition to reach over and swat you into the wrong gear on the road or climb.
Those were the days! They would have it on tape from three different angles today.
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Large Brake Cable Loops
I get better TV reception that way, besides I have VERY large hands....
I like the long gracile curves of the brake cables but I guess they are a little long...
verktyg
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 09-05-19 at 02:51 PM.
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#14
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Charly Gaul is one rider I know who used them in the fifties. Giro d'Italia 1956:
Fiorenzo Magni during the same race:
Fiorenzo Magni during the same race:
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Reaching down and shifting was a sign to all those around you that you were about to do something and they had time to react.
Bar end shifters were seen as a bit stealthy and one could shift while holding the bars without anyone knowing.
As far as whether they were in the tdf or not the videos of old tdf certainly have quite a few bar end shifters in them.
Bar end shifters were seen as a bit stealthy and one could shift while holding the bars without anyone knowing.
As far as whether they were in the tdf or not the videos of old tdf certainly have quite a few bar end shifters in them.
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My coach in the early seventies, Brus Svihus, admonished us not to use bar end shifters for fear of gouging our knees with them in a sprint. He also taught us how to shift the rear downtube shifter into a higher gear with our right knee in a sprint. (Not that it did me any good. I've always been a feeble sprinter.)
Brent
Brent
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There are several photos of racers using bar end shifters during the 1960s including Merckx. None seems to have used them much or for long. There wasn't enough context to figure out whether they thought bar end shifters might offer an advantage for certain stages or types of one day races.
I've used bar end shifters only on one bike with albatross handlebars. It's a natural for that because the shifters are where my hands usually grip the bar, so I can shift just by hooking my little fingers around the levers to pull up, and use my ring fingers or base of my palm to push the levers down. I occasionally switch between index and friction shifting, depending on whether I need the 32T big cog in the 8-speed cassette. My rear derailleur is a 7-speed and will reach the 8th cog in friction mode but tends to pop out of the big cog in indexed mode. With a 30T small chainring and 28T next-to-biggest rear cog, that's usually good enough for most climbs here.
But I can't see any advantage to bar end shifters on drop bars since I'm in the drops only occasionally. I know several folks who do use 'em on drop bars. I just don't see any advantage for myself. I'm accustomed to downtube shifters and with well tuned indexing it's quick and crisp, especially to shift during a climb.
I've used bar end shifters only on one bike with albatross handlebars. It's a natural for that because the shifters are where my hands usually grip the bar, so I can shift just by hooking my little fingers around the levers to pull up, and use my ring fingers or base of my palm to push the levers down. I occasionally switch between index and friction shifting, depending on whether I need the 32T big cog in the 8-speed cassette. My rear derailleur is a 7-speed and will reach the 8th cog in friction mode but tends to pop out of the big cog in indexed mode. With a 30T small chainring and 28T next-to-biggest rear cog, that's usually good enough for most climbs here.
But I can't see any advantage to bar end shifters on drop bars since I'm in the drops only occasionally. I know several folks who do use 'em on drop bars. I just don't see any advantage for myself. I'm accustomed to downtube shifters and with well tuned indexing it's quick and crisp, especially to shift during a climb.
#19
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Some interesting takes and some old wives tales I would suspect as well. In my racing days I can't remember seeing guys shift there gears. It was so fast and you're so attentive to the movements of the pack, noticing someone shift gears was way on the periphery.
I can only remember seeing one guy in the 70's with barends and he was quite accomplished.....multi National Champion and Olympic silver medalist. I'm sure there were others using barends, but not many.
Downtube shifters were the norm. And in the years I raced I can't think of an incident where downtube shifters were a detriment. But in my criterium heavy racing it was put it in the 88 inch gear and go. And no one reached over and hit my shift levers.
I can only remember seeing one guy in the 70's with barends and he was quite accomplished.....multi National Champion and Olympic silver medalist. I'm sure there were others using barends, but not many.
Downtube shifters were the norm. And in the years I raced I can't think of an incident where downtube shifters were a detriment. But in my criterium heavy racing it was put it in the 88 inch gear and go. And no one reached over and hit my shift levers.
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This is completely new information to me. Do you know anything more about where he learned how to build? I suppose in Italy while he was there? Is he still alive? When I teach my frame building classes I always do a short section on how Albert Eisentraut is the father of modern American builders and that he got the start in Chicago visiting the Oscar Wastyn shop before going out west. And there were some builders from the 6 day racing era that had mostly died or retired by the bike boom era of the 70's but I have never heard of Lars before (although I knew who Hugh Enox was but didn't know he had ever built frames).
And he did make frames. I have this one. I recently updated the shifting, but otherwise quite original.
Hugh Enochs 1983
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#21
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Not TdF caliber, but back in the '60s I raced this Legnano, which came new with Campy bar cons. I loved them then, still do, still have the bike. I don't remember anybody ever mentioning it as a thing back in the day. I just know that they worked for me. I've been able to avoid downtube shifters for 55 years, but now I have 2 of them, a '78 Peugeot PR10 with Simplex dt, and another Legnano with Campy dt.
New in 1964
Still one of my favorite rides.
New in 1964
Still one of my favorite rides.