ghostofcrujones

I recently set up my bike with a set of VO Porteur bars and I've been having a couple fit issues. At first, I felt the cockpit just felt cramped overall, due to the sweep back of the bars, but as i tried to do some minor adjustments, I feel like I am still having trouble reducing the cramped feel and hand pain.

I thought initially that the hand pain was due to the shorter distance between the bars and saddle. I swapped out the stem (originally a 90) with a 110mm stem and that helped a bit with the cramped feeling, as ewll as making the steering feel smoother. But i still had hand pain, starting pretty quickly even on short rides.

So then I tried to adjust the stem height a little bit. But I guess here's where i'm kinda stuck. I'm not sure if any/all of these adjustments follow obviously logic. Does raising the stem take more pressure of the hands and/or result in less hand pain?

I've included a photo of my bike, just so you can see the relative height of bars to saddle. I typically enjoy riding in this style of set upbut realize that changing out the bars may require a change in this.

I also just got a hold of a 120mm stem (although the one in teh photo is the 110) and tried swaping that out last night and this change made the steering feel a little wonky. I guess I was just hoping that other riders out there might have some advice and experience with a similar set up. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

corrado33

You took a drop bar bike and put handlebars not meant for it on it. The swept bars are worse than flat bars when it comes to reach. You went from one extreme to the other, and now you're figuring out why people don't put swept bars on road (racing) bikes. Swept bars are more comfortable and practical on less aggressive geometry bikes.

ghostofcrujones

Yeah, that summarizes what I did, but are you implying that there is no way to work out any further adjustment? I've ridden on similar bikes with similar setups, have seen many riders who have converted similar era/style bikes with upright & swept bars, and I have successfully set up other frames with similar bars. Just looking for any advice on how to tweak these for more comfortability. I didn't ever ride in the drops that i previously had and I dont enjoy that braking position for most riding.

I guess specifically what I am asking is 1.) Will extending the cockpit length via a longer stem create or reduce hand pain? And will extending to a 120mm or longer stem cause a wonky effect to the steering that will negate the roomier cockpit feel improvement?

and 2.) Will raising the stem help solve the hand pain that I am experiencing? On the one hand having the bars a bit higher may reduce my forward lean, but on the other hand, i had almost as much, if not more forward lean with drops installed and didnt have the same type of pain.

kingston 

You could try tilting the bars down a bit in the back so your wrists are in a more neutral position on the grips. I have VO Tourist bars on a road frame and that seems to work fine for me.

ghostofcrujones

Thanks for the suggestion, Kingston. I have seen people with bars tilted like that out in the wild. I'll try and see if that makes the difference. Appreciate your feedback.

GerryinHouston

I had the same problem with the mid-rise bar that came with my Trek Verve 2. Tingling in the fingers, numbing and hand pain. I tried all possible positions (I have an adjustable stem) and saddle distances. Eventually I swapped it with a flat bar and a long stem and acquired a more aggressive (road bike like) stance.

Soon after a friend told me that his erstwhile coach told him that the forearms should not be rotated, that is the crook of the elbow should be oriented towards the sky. That's what happens when you have drop bars and ride on the drops or the hoods. Rotating the forearms produces the numbness/tingling/pain.

I bought the Novara Randonee with drop bars and the pain and numbing/tingling started to recede immediately, but it took over a month to go away completely.

My doctor suggested that the real source of the problem is my desk posture and the rotation of the arms with the mid-rise/flat bar just brought the problem in the fore. YMMV.

noglider 

I would also tilt them down in the back. For that matter, try several different tilts.

I don't know much about hand pain. I get many pains on the bike but not hand pain. Is it from weight on your hands? If so, a longer stem would have you lean farther forward, and that would put more weight on your hands.

I've been doing experiments lately, trying to figure out the ideal height and reach for me. I think I've determined I need my handlebars higher than before but possibly a longer reach. This is the trickiest thing for me. I'm currently trying a mustache handlebar. To get that to work, I used a tall stem with a short extension. This bar gives me various different positions. The positions hardly vary in height, but they vary a lot in reach. That seems to help me a lot. When I want to ride slowly or easily, I choose a short reach, and when I want to climb or ride hard, I choose a long reach.





You may want to experiment with different types of bars, too. On another bike, I have "all rounder" bars which are not quite flat. They have a little rise and a little reach (back toward the rider). On them, I put extensions on the end so I can reach forward for climbing and for variety.

I don't agree that swept back handlebars don't work on road bikes made for drop bars. It depends on the rider and the riding. But I did try them on the bike pictured above. It gave me a too-short cockpit but not hand pain. I like to lean forward but I guess I don't like to lean down.

blakcloud

If you Google Image search on French Porteur bikes, two things will be evident. First the bars are about the same height as the seat. Second as others have said, tilt the bars down for a more natural position. I also think the longer stem will help since the bars sweep back so far. For my Riv, I use a 12 or 13 cm stem and I still feel slightly cramped.

Hopefully you can find something that works for you. The bike looks great.

ghostofcrujones

Sounds good, blakcloud. Yeah, i can raise the stem up. Just kinda aiming for bars to be at a more natural height where hands hit when extended naturally. I guess it's just got to the point where I'm adjusting more than a couple things (stem height, length, saddle position - maybe bar tilt) and trying to figure out which positions make the most difference and are most advisable.

kingston 

Saddle position is really important for comfortable hands. Sometimes all it takes is an imperceptible tilt up of the nose to take enough pressure off the hands to make a world of difference.

corrado33

1. You can extend the reach all you want, I doubt you'll find a stem long enough to make the reach equivalent to the drop bars that used to be on there. Swept bars have the hand position behind the attachment point, where as drop bars have the hand position(s) in front of it. It's quite a large difference. Yes, long stems force you to turn the handlebars more in order to turn the bike. Instead of turning just the handlebars, you're forced to turn the bars in an arc.

2. Raising the stem generally puts more weight on your behind and less on your wrists, so in theory it would help reduce hand pain, but honestly I'm not sure how far that'll go. Swept bars are supposed to be held, not have significant weight put on them. And they're certainly not supposed to have a large (if any) saddle to bar drop.

ghostofcrujones

Yeah, maybe that's the difference that I didn't expect/account for. The bars that i have swapped out on my other bikes had been Nitto promenades or upright bars. And as a result are more held than rested on. And then of course they add a significant rise - resulting in cockpit knee clearance and the lack of need to raise stem.

I liked the VO porteurs since they offered three hand positions for longer riding - end of bar regular hand grip, the front bend, and front flat near the stem - whereas Nitton Promenades don't really offer that second bend position.

I'll try to tweak this a bit more. Thanks for providing the insight below!

ghostofcrujones

I played around with the stem height a bit and tilted the bars downward. The tilt down seemed to relieve some of teh hand pain, but i didnt like the grip for climbing/getting out of the saddle.

Do you guys think that a bar like the Nitto Dove would help with some of these problems? It is a little wider, which i think would be more comfortable and might result in a more natural wrist position.

also, it has abut 50 mm of rise, which would bring the bars higher up, without requiring a taller stem.

I'm not sure if this is 100% to scale, but i tried to super-impose similar images of the two

jade408

Also, I found ergo grips helped me a lot.

I have both downward tilted handlebars, bars a bit above the seat and a tilted up saddle. My hands feel like they are resting on the bars. Also, you may need wider handlebars depending on your build.

jforman

my two cents:
move your seat back until you can ride no handed easily. also angle your seat so that your weight is on the back of the seat and you don't slide forward. These changes take much of your upper body weight off your wrists and free up your blood circulation. You then can adjust the handlebar to get the most comfortable position.

corrado33

This is absolutely incorrect.

Saddle position (fore and aft) is determined by where your knees need to be. That is the only criteria, for good reason. It is not, I repeat, not a cure for aching hands. Tilt? Sure. Position? No.

noglider 

I agree with @corrado33. Position the seat right first. Position the handlebars once you have the seat right.

ghostofcrujones

yeah, i've definitely got my saddle in the corect fore/oft position based on dropping plumbline from knee downward. Got correct saddle height as well. I might try a slight saddle tilt, but this seems to get undone when tightening down saddle, no matter how much downward pressure i put on the rear of the saddle. Thanks for all the great feedback!

Abu Mahendra

Your problem is due to two factors. One is that the cockpit is too small, meaning the top tube is too short to offset the reduced reach of the bars. A longer stem can help. Two, the bars need to be tilted to conform to the natural angle of the wrist. The higher the bar, the more tilt they will need. Here are images of my Porteur bar set up.







Notice the tilt angle on the bar, about 30º from horizontal. Notice also that's a 55.5cm top tube with a 10cm stem. I am 170cm tall. 65cm is my ideal seatpost to stem clamp distance.

Gresp15C

Maybe the sweep of those Porteurs is too much of a good thing. My 1981 Trek 311 frame is fitted with a VO "Tourist" bar, which has less sweep. In my case, I want a shorter reach -- the difference between swept bars and drop bars is something like eight inches, which just can't be made up by changing the stem or even the frame dimensions. It's definitely a different feel.

fietsbob

bars up=to saddle height would be at least.. IMO.. if not higher..