giassone

I am about to refurbish a Medici bike. I have material for a Campy 10 speed system and I need to get a new crank. I wonder if there is any real advantage to the carbon. I am considering the first generation carbon to use with my square taper bb. So I am between the alloy and the carbon Record. Any suggestions?
Also, is there any real advantage to the new Ultra Torque with the external BB? Those get way expensive and I wonder how much benefit there is. ...Do they have some kind of motor?
Thanks

HillRider

The carbon cranks were slightly lighter and have a vastly higher bling-factor to go along with the much higher cost. For the square taper cranks, I'd personally stay with the aluminum version. I have an aluminum 10-speed Chorus crank with the matching square taper bb on one bike and I can't think of a more satisfactory arrangement.

The Ultra-torque cranks are lighter yet and the bb interface is stiffer but the cost goes up exponentially.

cs1

I bought my first ever CF part. It's a Campy Centaur CT crank. They were lanquishing on Nashbar for a couple of years. I think the 48/34 gearing was the big reason. So, at Christmas 2008 the price dropped to $109.95 with a 10% coupon. That's right $99.00 for a genuine Campy CF crank. I couldn't resist. It's almost too pretty to use. So, it's sitting in the box on my dresser. Every so often I open the box and say "your not going anywhere."

greenmtn

I went from a Chorus 10sp alloy to a Chorus UT. I believe that the outboard setup is much better as far as stiffness and overall design!!
Besides the bling factor... If I was not going to get the UT then the square taper alloy is just fine.

WNG

Depends on your Medici. On particular classic bikes, alloy offers a better aesthetic than carbon fiber.
The minor weight savings of most carbon fiber 3-piece cranks doesn't really offset their cost and justification. Whether sq. taper, ISIS, Octalink, the carbon arms all need to transition to a metal insert to mate to the spindle. (and at the pedal end).

Once 2-piece cranks got introduced, that's when you got significant improvements when switching to CF. No more silly alloy insert. Performance-wise and mechanical design-wise, the 2-piece is way superior! A better return on your CF investment.

Otherwise, CF 3-piece cranks are pure bling. When available for cheap, it's hard to pass on...almost bought a pair of Centaur CF arms for $60. They were tough to pass on.
They appeal to my emotional side, but my rational side of my brain rules.

giassone

The truth is that I do not hear the best comments about Campy BBs. Now with the new system this may be different, but I wonder if the new BBs would be as smooth and resilient at the same time as the Phil Woods. No I am not trying to advertise Phil Wood. I just have that BB and I think it is a class above everything else I have tried. So would a new UT system actually be a better deal than an old system with Phil in between?

WNG

I haven't read up on the negatives of Campy's recent cartridge BBs. But sadly, all cartridge BBs are designed to be disposable.

Tough call, Phil Wood BBs are creme de la creme. Comparing BBs of different designs is a bit apples/oranges. 2-piece pipe BBs are superior mechanically (lighter, more rigid, interface fretting reduced/none) and superior to produce (cheaper, off the shelf cartridge bearings, can use lesser grades of steel and hardening). I think this was the main reason for Shimano's push for new standards, cheaper and a monopoly on the patent. BTW, IMO, Shimano's design is superior to UT. But as usual, every other company must get around Shimano's patents.

I have nothing against the old spindle BB, as I love to maintain my rides. But a good one requires the manufacturer to adhere to higher standards for each piece of the BB. I think a Phil Wood and Campy sq. taper CF crank will last the lifetime of the bike.
UT shifts the attention towards the quality of the cartridge bearings and machining tolerances of the pipe spindle interface. You'll be replacing/finding cartridge bearings as your BB maintenance.

Butcher

I beg to differ on the disposable. I heard the same thing about Campy Pro-fit pedals. After a 15 min research I was able to find bearings for the pedals and after spending $30.00, I had new bearings in both pedals [total of 6 bearings]. I am certain with the same amount of effort you can buy bearings for the Campy bottom bracket too. Probably fairly inexpensive. I know you can buy ceramic bearings too. As long as it can be assembled most things can be disassembled and reassembled again.

tvphobic

Phil BBs are the greatest, they reek precision and durability, and Campagnolo has produced some not-that-impressive BBs - Like the SC-S, AC-S, AC-H series, (300g and up, but dirt cheap) which until 2005 was the only option other than ISO taper Phil for the otherwise top-notch Centaur cranksets. I purchased the new 2005 "Centaur" BB and it is silky-smooth after ~over 10k miles. I know Phils that have 30k, but I paid about $43 for that Centaur. I had three Octalink BB's STB after under 2K -- THAT is expensive.

HillRider

I have a '06 Chorus square taper bb with about 9000 miles and it's still smooth as new so my experience with Campy's square taper bbs matches yours and i see no reason why it will go bad anytime soon.

However, I have an Ultegra-level Octalink with 20,000 miles and its still just as smooth as the Campy. I have another with 9000 miles equally smooth and tight. My son-in-law has 25,000 miles on an Ultegra Octalink too so my experience says they are equally as durable as the better Campy bb's. I have no idea what you must have done to destroy three in 2000 miles each.

demoncyclist

I put 15K miles on an AC-H, and the replacement was cheap and easy. I'll be psyched if the FSA on my C'dale lasts half as long.

tvphobic

I should have added the obligatory "YMMV" to my above post. ;-)

WNG

Interesting, 2k miles only! I'm curious too since I run two road double Octalinks.
Were these road or MTB Octalinks? Under what riding conditions?

DaveSSS 

FWIW, Campy Chorus or Record square taper BBs can be rebuilt with two 6803 bearings and one 6903.

Also, FWIW, "smooth" is a worthless term when it comes to precision cartridge bearings. No one could tell the difference between an ABEC-3 and ABEC-5 (more precise) bearing by feeling anything and certainly not while riding the bike.

What makes a BB die at low mileage is usually a misaligment problem, improper bearing adjustement (if adjustable, like most outboard bearings) or the intrusion of water and dirt. Frames can have misaligned BB threads that can't be fixed and will eat up bearings quickly.

The BB faces also need to be square to the threads and I'd bet a large percentage of users never check that either. You can check for squareness by screwing a cup into the shell until it contacts a .010 inch feeler gage and then use .008-.012 inch feelers to search for high and low spots.

well biked

If I had a Medici, I would go for aluminum parts instead of carbon, for aesthetic reasons. Since you're going 10 speed, I would get a new UT Centaur crankset, the aluuminum version. I put an '09 Centaur group (all aluminum) on my lugged steel Pinarello, and am extremely pleased with it, both functionally and aesthetically. Shiny metal parts look best on classy old steel bikes, in my opinion.

Speaking of Medici's, what model is yours? I've seen a Gran Tourismo (sp?) up close and personal, and wow, that's a lust-worthy bike-

unterhausen

I think it depends on the paint color of the bike. We had black anodized parts back in the '70s, it's not a new invention.

tvphobic

Road 109.5 mm BB-5500's. I did buy an Ultegra eventually, and I'm happy with it, AND I was training in some nasty weather, and sandy and salty New Hampshire and NY upstate roads in those years, 2003-2004.

But I've ridden in bad conditions with other bikes and other BBs with fewer problems. I don't pretend to understand the precise reasons behind my unfortunate experience.

tvphobic

Thanks for pointing this out! I don't have a Chorus BB, I have a Centaur square taper and some AC-H's ( the latter is definitively not rebuildable) So I can't inspect a Chorus and see how is disassembles to perform the overhaul. Is there some spot online where instructions to do this are? I'm way interested - it may even get me to go Chorus sq-taper.

Mr. Fly

Both left and right cups pop out when tugged. The bearings are then plainly visible. To replace the three cartridge bearings, you'll need to remove a circlip (this can be quite hard if you don't have the proper tool). With the circlip removed, the old bearings can be pressed/knocked out and new ones installed. It's really a 5-minute job if you have the proper tools, and replacement bearings handy.


Chorus/Record square taper BBs are 102mm or 111mm asymmetrical only, for the Chorus/Record doubles and triples respectively. Neither are compatible with the Centaur cranks unfortunately.

tvphobic

I knew about that. Luckily, taper-era Chorus cranks in great shape are quite available these days - lots of 'upgraders' are going to 'ultra-torque' ( I just have to put that in quotes) I'm also familiar with the removal of circlips from a Record hub cassette body whose bearings went dodgy on me. Thanks.