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Newbie contemplating group tour; how to decide if you can do it?

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Newbie contemplating group tour; how to decide if you can do it?

Old 06-06-19, 10:21 AM
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UniChris
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Newbie contemplating group tour; how to decide if you can do it?

This is my fifth year into a return to cycling. I've done a lot of long day rides - a number of metric's including this season's first two weeks ago, and in one absurdly long day last August, an imperial century. But I've never toured, and have tended to be more in a "do a long ride, let my rear heal for a week" type of pattern. My options for group rides are a bit limited, because I actually ride a giant unicycle that's about the speed of the slowest casual family bike ride - I get passed by just about everyone, even though only a few of those are out to ride a trail end to end as I usually do.

Recently I heard about a week-long tour in Denmark specifically organized for those of us deficient a wheel.

They've apparently planned a longer and shorter option each day, 40-60 km or 60-100 km. There will be a car to carry the tents and sleeping bags, but with little space for frame mounting have to backpack the rest, packing lightly that's possibly not all that much more than I carry on a long day ride, especially if some things like tools, pump, first aid, etc can be pooled with others. I figure any day of that would be little problem, but day after day for a week?

How does one figure out if you're ready to tour?

A couple weeks ago I did 48 miles on Friday, 6 on Saturday, and 22 on Sunday, and almost thought I'd gotten to the point where I could ride days in succession, but despite showering before each ride and fresh clothes, ended up dealing with a saddle sore that's come, gone, and returned to again threaten this weekend's ride. I think about everything I've tried - instead of the usual careful handwashing of shorts, washing them, soaking them in vinegar and washing again. Showering multiple times per day, acne wash, triple antibiotic, bag balm, etc. and wonder how I could deal with that out in the woods rather than merely debating if it's legit to go commando to the office or better to simply work from home while trying to heal.

And that's just the saddle stuff - I'm usually quite stiff and dead tired the day after a ride, not only from turning the pedals but from specific stresses like mounting and dismounting, being out in the sun even with long sleeves and huge helmet brim, etc. Last Saturday also left me with an odd first occurrence of some kind of friction-sweat burn on my lower back from a backpack I've worn for hundreds of total miles and only suffered strap bruising from in the past; may be applying some chamois cream there next ride, too.

What's typically the hardest day of a tour? If I were going to try to put together some sort of test locally, how many day's riding do I need to do to get to the worst - will two suffice or does it really need to be three? Without a way to carry the sleeping gear, is is still a "fair" test if I take the train to a different local moderate distance ride each day and return home after?

Does one use chamois cream on tour, or just get to the point of no longer needing it?

Last edited by UniChris; 06-06-19 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 06-06-19, 02:27 PM
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Could it be that the unicycle saddle is not ideal for your arsular dimensions for long rides? Most touring cyclists try a few saddles before settling on one they like. If there are other Unicycle saddle shapes, try one of those. I am not familiar with the unicycle aftermarket for saddles though - if there are few options then you might have to try something else.

Also, creams and balms are often used, even for very high-mileage tourists.
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Old 06-06-19, 03:37 PM
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good questions, but honestly, only you can know the answer.
On top of it, who among us has unicycle experience, let alone riding one all bloody day, and then each day for a week?

and I still come back to, no matter if someone here has done uni touring, in the end, its your arse, your seat, your everything, so you know best.

good luck, organized trips can be fun. so all the best with your decision.
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Old 06-06-19, 06:04 PM
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Thanks for the responses. I wasn't really asking how to improve the situation (that's been an ongoing process pursued elsewhere, with some success and some ongoing frustration), but more about how to use what I can do now, to estimate if I'm able to do a multi day tour.

For example, if I do a shorter local "dummy test tour", how many consecutive days of comparable distance would I need to ride, to develop a sense that I could fly to Europe to do that for a week?

Is it usually the second day that is hard? The third? Later? I get that things can go wrong (saddle sores, weather, general illness and mechanicals are pretty unpredictable) but in terms of general issues, when on a tour do you typically hit the lowest point, before settling in for the long haul?

Last edited by UniChris; 06-06-19 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:54 AM
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the main thing is just to get your arse out there and ride regularly, not necessarily super long rides, but regularly, so you deal with and adjust stuff if necessary for the uni specific fit and comfort stuff (and or by simply riding regularly, your body does toughen up to a certain degree--this is not to say ever to ignore pain, misfit etc, hope you get my drift)

first of all, flying to europe just for a week trip and coming back is a bit tough jet lag wise, takes a few days min. and in my experience, usually a bit more, so you spend the bucks on a flight, and are just getting over the time diff and then you fly back.--sure, when I was in my 20s it didnt affect me as much, but there is still the money spent for such a short "travel" experience.

maybe do the trip and visit other stuff while over there (but another topic I know)

so, specifics on what days are hard--generally the 2nd and 3rd day are a bit harder, as you are more stiff, maybe lack of sleep catching up that the first day or so's adrenaline excitement cover up. So for me, after about 4 days or so you are getting more into it, body hopefully doing ok (if the bike fit and your fitness is good to begin with) and after a week, you really start to notice being stronger, and into the ryhthmn.

again, these are my personal experiences, but I reckon its more or less common for others, so a reasonable expectation for you as well.

Really though, the most important thing is to ride regularly, I mean why spend all that money to arrive there with little hours and kms of seat time, kind of a waste, plus you will enjoy the experience more as you wont be as bagged and will recover from jetlag and daily riding faster.

bottom line is to have fun, so prepare yourself properly and its a win win.

I commute regularly, so this helps the bum and leg muscles being in reasonable shape. It certainly does help doing longer rides so you are physically aware of how they are, plus it will show up issues with your shoes, your bike shorts, whatever, that it just makes sense to address or be aware of before youspend a few grand on a trip.

I know its a supported trip, but if there are options for shorter first days, do this, it makes a real difference. I figured this out even back in my 20s, ie doing 60km days for the first or so days, and it is nice to not overdo it when getting over jetlag and all that. Plus, you will be more rested for the following days, but again, its a supported trip so I dont knwo what flexibility there is, and only you know what distances you are comfortable with, and on a uni to boot.

this is like any activity, prepare properly and use common sense to do so, and it will work out.
Just get your arse out there and put in the miles beforehand, you'll have more fun on the trip if you do.
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Old 06-07-19, 09:05 AM
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Sometimes I feel like it's less about the time you spend in the saddle, and more about the recuperating time you need out of the saddle. I know I can ride 10 or 20 miles at a stretch, chill out for half an hour, and do it again. I know I can ride 50 miles between breakfast and dinner, relax all evening, and wake up ready to do it again. If a night's sleep isn't enough time to recuperate, then at some point a multi-day tour will weigh on you. For my part, within the confines of available daylight, I try not to tax myself throughout the day, so that I'm not wiped out at the end of it. Breaks to enjoy the scenery, long meals off the bike, whatever it takes to make sure that it's a ride rather than a grind. If can do 50 miles, sleep well, and wake up ready to go again, then you're in a sustainable pattern.

But it doesn't sound like endurance is your number one issue. Saddle sores are not something you build up a resistance to. They're something you hopefully learn to avoid, and when they happen, you learn to treat them and avoid them in the future. A lot of what you're talking about sounds like you're taking steps designed to prevent sores from becoming infected, which is a good idea, but it's not getting you closer to real goal: finding the right shorts and saddle combination so that you don't get sores and maybe some creams to prevent chaffing before it becomes a problem. Getting your legs capable of spending days riding is a matter of practice, training, and endurance. Getting your butt ready is a matter of the right equipment.
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Old 06-07-19, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
Sometimes I feel like it's less about the time you spend in the saddle, and more about the recuperating time you need out of the saddle. I know I can ride 10 or 20 miles at a stretch, chill out for half an hour, and do it again. I know I can ride 50 miles between breakfast and dinner, relax all evening, and wake up ready to do it again. If a night's sleep isn't enough time to recuperate, then at some point a multi-day tour will weigh on you. For my part, within the confines of available daylight, I try not to tax myself throughout the day, so that I'm not wiped out at the end of it. Breaks to enjoy the scenery, long meals off the bike, whatever it takes to make sure that it's a ride rather than a grind. If can do 50 miles, sleep well, and wake up ready to go again, then you're in a sustainable pattern.

But it doesn't sound like endurance is your number one issue. Saddle sores are not something you build up a resistance to. They're something you hopefully learn to avoid, and when they happen, you learn to treat them and avoid them in the future. A lot of what you're talking about sounds like you're taking steps designed to prevent sores from becoming infected, which is a good idea, but it's not getting you closer to real goal: finding the right shorts and saddle combination so that you don't get sores and maybe some creams to prevent chaffing before it becomes a problem. Getting your legs capable of spending days riding is a matter of practice, training, and endurance. Getting your butt ready is a matter of the right equipment.
very good first paragraph advice. Breaking it into chunks that you know you can do comfortably.

and the underlined parts really touch on the key issue here--but its so tricky for us non unicycle riders to know what its like on a unicycle seat, which I presume has very different pressure issues as there is no "third point of contact-weight reducing" point of handlebars to come into play, not to mention the different angles and whatnot that are involved with riding balancing a uni.

just unknowns to us

for a regular bike, getting that combination of padded bike shorts, bike position and seat position is still hard for some people to figure out, so I wonder if its even harder for uni riding??
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Old 06-07-19, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
but its so tricky for us non unicycle riders to know what its like on a unicycle seat, which I presume has very different pressure issues as there is no "third point of contact-weight reducing" point of handlebars to come into play, not to mention the different angles and whatnot that are involved with riding balancing a uni
Actually I, and anyone else riding serious distance do run a narrow handlebar with a pair of bar ends to hold. It's not really for steering of course (though it does seem to reduce the pedal-induced wobble) but it helps a lot with positioning on the saddle, takes a little weight, and is really key to being able to stand up for a few revs now and then for a seat break (being fixed we can't actually coast). There are only maybe four distance-worthy saddles on the market, I've tried two of them and currently ride the one I found better - the two I've tried are incidentally the most bike-like, being dead flat without the traditional banana curve, and the one I stuck with is the firmer of the pair. I do mean to revert some recent adjustments to angle and height next time out, but overall my question here is more about figuring out how what I can in one day (a metric right now, an imperial at peak buildup last summer) maps to touring plausibility.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
first of all, flying to europe just for a week trip and coming back is a bit tough jet lag wise, takes a few days min. and in my experience, usually a bit more, so you spend the bucks on a flight, and are just getting over the time diff and then you fly back.--sure, when I was in my 20s it didnt affect me as much, but there is still the money spent for such a short "travel" experience.
That's a good point, if I do it I should look into heading over a couple of days earlier. There's already a crazy idea (copied from someone else) of sawing the 36" rim into three pieces and building the wheel there, that could take some time (or buying one there and sawing it for the trip home).

so, specifics on what days are hard--generally the 2nd and 3rd day are a bit harder, as you are more stiff, maybe lack of sleep catching up that the first day or so's adrenaline excitement cover up. So for me, after about 4 days or so you are getting more into it, body hopefully doing ok (if the bike fit and your fitness is good to begin with) and after a week, you really start to notice being stronger, and into the ryhthm.
Thank you! This is what I was looking for - that suggests to me that if I could do a psuedo-tour locally of three successive days of comparable rides, I might have a fair idea if I'm up to this.

I know its a supported trip, but if there are options for shorter first days, do this, it makes a real difference. I figured this out even back in my 20s, ie doing 60km days for the first or so days, and it is nice to not overdo it when getting over jetlag and all that. Plus, you will be more rested for the following days, but again, its a supported trip so I dont knwo what flexibility there is, and only you know what distances you are comfortable with, and on a uni to boot.
My understanding is that there's a shorter and longer route each day and one is free to pick either that morning, which sounds rather ideal in light of your concern. I'm getting a sense you'd recommend not doing the long one on day 1 ;-)
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Old 06-07-19, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
That's a good point, if I do it I should look into heading over a couple of days earlier. There's already a crazy idea (copied from someone else) of sawing the 36" rim into three pieces and building the wheel there, that could take some time (or buying one there and sawing it for the trip home).

Thank you! This is what I was looking for - that suggests to me that if I could do a psuedo-tour locally of three successive days of comparable rides, I might have a fair idea if I'm up to this.

My understanding is that there's a shorter and longer route each day and one is free to pick either that morning, which sounds rather ideal in light of your concern. I'm getting a sense you'd recommend not doing the long one on day 1 ;-)
I have to admit, you've lost me with talking about sawing a wheel up!
If I can put a touring bike in an empty cardboard bike box I get from a bike store that they receive new bikes in and are throwing out, I dont see why you cant put a unicycle in it with pedals removed in a cardboard box as well, wheel untouched?
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Old 06-07-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I have to admit, you've lost me with talking about sawing a wheel up!
If I can put a touring bike in an empty cardboard bike box I get from a bike store that they receive new bikes in and are throwing out, I dont see why you cant put a unicycle in it with pedals removed in a cardboard box as well, wheel untouched?
The wheel of a distance unicycle is 36" in diameter (much like in the penny farthing era, it's the only natural way to get a return on your pedaling money) while a standard bike box is around 32" high.

I do have a 29er with an internal gear hub that multiplies it to an effective 43 gear inches, but it's extremely touchy and demanding of attention to ride especially over any kind of uneven surface; in contrast that big 36x2.25 tire just rolls over stuff and you can be really lazy about applying corrections, which tends to be a good thing when you're on your last legs late in a long ride.

It turns out there there's next to no load but compression on the existing joint in a rim, and typically they're only pinned together, so someone figured out you could saw it in two other places, add pins there too, fly with a collection of parts and (in their version, not mine) build up the wheel in baggage claim and ride away... Only having only built a wheel once personally I think I might take a little longer.

That said the rim is only $130, which may really compare fairly well to oversize fees two ways - apart from that there's just a big fork and random pipes and spokes. Buying one there (er, well, I found it listed in Germany, the Danish dealer doesn't seem to have parts) and sawing it after seems not unreasonable, worst case end up replacing it with an unsawn one. Only downside is that it's the time before the trip when I really wish I had a spare wheel stashed at relatives who live near another interesting trail.

Last edited by UniChris; 06-07-19 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 06-08-19, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
The wheel of a distance unicycle is 36" in diameter (much like in the penny farthing era, it's the only natural way to get a return on your pedaling money) while a standard bike box is around 32" high.

.....

bike box? refrigerator box, couple 'o big screen teevee boxes spliced together, random bits of cardboard properly taped and tied......(or just an extension to the 32" bike box...)

surely easier than trying to re-pin and true a monster-sized wheel in an airport baggage claim without a truing stand.
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Old 06-08-19, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
bike box? refrigerator box, couple 'o big screen teevee boxes spliced together, random bits of cardboard properly taped and tied......(or just an extension to the 32" bike box...)

surely easier than trying to re-pin and true a monster-sized wheel in an airport baggage claim without a truing stand.

surely easier than trying to re-pin and true a monster-sized wheel in an airport baggage claim without a truing stand.[/QUOTE]

indeed, my thoughts also.

Uni, Ive flown with my bike in standard cardboard boxes sourced from bike store garbage piles for decades. Their sizes vary but ultimately for an airline, they look at a clearly standard bike box when you arrive at the checkin and see a box that is clearly a bike box, ie Specialized, or Giant, or whatever printed on the side, and all they care about is the weight.
Yes, it is officially LxWxD thats supposed to add up to whatever inches, but I have never had them measure the box, but they do care about the weight.

So what we are getting at is that you should easily be able to shorten the long length of a regular bike box (Im talking cardboard always here just to be clear) but add on the whatever inches on top , and it will be just a bit, so the 36in part will be covered by cardboard.

what the person at the counter will see is a "truncated", ie "small" bike box being pulled up by a friendly guy, who has arrived early so the check in people are not rushed and therefore in a good mood, who smiles and casually mention, yes, this is my bike, but its a unicycle and Im riding around Holland or Denmark on it for a bike trip---you see what Im getting at here--smile, be early, be polite,

and yes, your box will be a few inches taller than standard, but probably a foot or two shorter, so it will be actually smaller than a standard sized bike box.

and it will most likely weigh the same, or less than a regular joe schmoe arriving with a regular bike box---so they will be happy (less fuel to use is the issue here, hence the weight thing)

now, if you have never flown with a bike before, just be aware that diff airlines have VERY diff costs for bringing a bike, so ask around, ask here, and get good recommendations for airlines that aren't dicks about charging an arm and a leg to bring a bike.

also, our opinions are based on experience, but also do look up yourself the fine print for bike box dimensions for various airlines, from memory they always seem to be the LxWxD total I mentioned, so you can at least be assured of our suggestion of "chopping down a full sized box, and adding a bit on top" theory.

Also, if you ever speak to airline employees about this specific question, use common sense and be aware that most likely you may get diff answers from diff people who wont have the experience of ever hearing the question (can I modify a bike box blah blah blah) and or are busy and or just dont give a rats patootey and will say anything.....

heck, you must know of unicycle internet forums where you weird people ( ;-) ) talk about your weird vehicles, so someone out there will have recent experiences about flying with a 36er.

and again, yes I get the larger wheel size thing for riding comfort etc.
I still think you are nuts riding one of these things (joke) but along with others here, I think its pretty darn cool and wacky, so I really hope you find an easy solution to the plane thing, I am sure you will and Im sure you can find proper advice from other uni's and or from the airlines.

to state again though, I have never had a checkin person or a x ray machine person (at the oversize area where I have had to take my bike box myself after checkin) actually measure my box, they only weigh them.
In the last two years, Ive flown three times with my bike, and its always been this case, and was the same going back decades (but right now is the most important thing)

* one caveat, I have been flying out of Montreal, so perhaps less uptight about bikes than Americans, and also I have been using "bike friendly" airlines, again, maybe not the case for you--so do your research about airlines, this is really important.

ps, to me too it just doesnt make any sense screwing around with building a wheel, its putting a needless risk of wheel failure into your trip, which cost you a lot of money and time, why risk all that on going all medieval on your poor wheel......?
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Old 06-08-19, 11:28 PM
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You have already done long rides but with serous fatigue & butt pain; perhaps forget about the group ride & do an easier credit-card tour? BTW I recently saw a bunch of skateboarders doing a 42 mile skate for a cancer charity. Esp impressive considering most of the skateboarders I see are on electric versions.
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Old 06-09-19, 09:22 PM
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A rule of thumb I've heard is you can ride in a day what you train in a week. Just like on a bike, on a uni hydration, fuel, and pace are key to sustained rides.

I ride a uni, but my longest ride is 15 miles. I can't drink while riding, which actually helps saddle issues since I'm stopping every 5 miles. I do find my core gets tired faster than anything else, which impacts stability.

Good luck
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