Hilly Hills; Will a cassette change do me good?
03-30-24, 04:02 AM
#26
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I have gone to 46-36 or 34 chain rings, compact crank set. The rear is 11-28 to 11-36 on 5 bikes. If I had a lot of hills, I would likely go to a subcompact of 46-30 on at least one of those bikes.
03-30-24, 07:35 PM
#27
don't try this at home.
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I'm assuming you have a 50-34 crankset. If it's 52-39, that's going to make your climbing even harder.
The 13-29 is really what you need. Spinning a faster cadence instead of grinding a low cadence is usually the easiest climbing for riders that struggle with hills. I liked it a lot.
The 13-29 worked great on my old Veloce 10 speed bike. It's outside the official range for the short cage derailleur, but was fine. Back then, there were lots of reports on BF of the 13-29 working, and no reports of jamming or other problems.
It looks like you'll need the Miche 13-29, since the campagnolo 13-29 10 speeds are out of stock everywhere.
The 34-29 low gear is 16% easier than your 34-25 low. That's like two rear shifts easier.
~~
Like other posts mentioned, it might need a new chain.
But test first:
Put on the 13-29.
Put the bike on a bike stand, or have someone lift the saddle to get the rear wheel off the ground.
Shift to a middle cog in the back, then shift to the big chairing in the front.
Now turn the crank by hand, shifting to the biggest cog. Does it shift onto that big gear easily? Is there at least a small gap between the top pulley and the big cog?
Is the derailleur arm still having at least a small jog in the chain direction? You don't want the chain completely stretched straight in this big chainring-biggest cog cross chained gear.
The 13-29 is really what you need. Spinning a faster cadence instead of grinding a low cadence is usually the easiest climbing for riders that struggle with hills. I liked it a lot.
The 13-29 worked great on my old Veloce 10 speed bike. It's outside the official range for the short cage derailleur, but was fine. Back then, there were lots of reports on BF of the 13-29 working, and no reports of jamming or other problems.
It looks like you'll need the Miche 13-29, since the campagnolo 13-29 10 speeds are out of stock everywhere.
The 34-29 low gear is 16% easier than your 34-25 low. That's like two rear shifts easier.
~~
Like other posts mentioned, it might need a new chain.
But test first:
Put on the 13-29.
Put the bike on a bike stand, or have someone lift the saddle to get the rear wheel off the ground.
Shift to a middle cog in the back, then shift to the big chairing in the front.
Now turn the crank by hand, shifting to the biggest cog. Does it shift onto that big gear easily? Is there at least a small gap between the top pulley and the big cog?
Is the derailleur arm still having at least a small jog in the chain direction? You don't want the chain completely stretched straight in this big chainring-biggest cog cross chained gear.
Last edited by rm -rf; 03-30-24 at 07:45 PM.
03-30-24, 07:58 PM
#28
don't try this at home.
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You probably can't go past 13-29 or 13-30 with Campagnolo 10 speed. It's not compatible with the spacing of 10 speed Shimano, for example. (11 speed Campagnolo has the exact spacing of 11 speed Shimano/SRAM, so they work interchangeably, but it would need a freehub swap for the different spline pattern.)
The percentage jump between gear shifts depends on the ratio of the two cog's teeth, but 8-10% per shift is often typical.
Compared to a 25 lowest gear:
29 is 16% easier (just divide the two: 29/25 = 1.16)
30 is 20%
32 is 28%
34 is 36% easier.
With my 11-speed 50/34 front and 11-32 rear, I can climb steeper hills while still staying seated. I'll never switch back to 11-28. With the 11-32, my yearly elevation is higher, even with somewhat fewer miles.
The percentage jump between gear shifts depends on the ratio of the two cog's teeth, but 8-10% per shift is often typical.
Compared to a 25 lowest gear:
29 is 16% easier (just divide the two: 29/25 = 1.16)
30 is 20%
32 is 28%
34 is 36% easier.
With my 11-speed 50/34 front and 11-32 rear, I can climb steeper hills while still staying seated. I'll never switch back to 11-28. With the 11-32, my yearly elevation is higher, even with somewhat fewer miles.
03-30-24, 09:07 PM
#29
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Can confirm that short cage Campy Veloce 10sp RD works well with Campy 13-29 10sp cassette.
03-30-24, 09:45 PM
#30
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10sp 12-30 is my recommendation, i've been using it for a long time now, buy it here https://www.totalcycling.com/en/Camp...e/m-18772.aspx, if you buy 2, you're good for 50k miles with normal maintenance and cleaning.
i assume you have standard crank, but regardless, this is proven and will make a big difference. btw, it tried all other combos and this one is clear winner.
cheers
forgot to mention: short cage rd works perfectly well with 12-30 cassette, 53/39 crank. also, the transfer ratio changes are smooth. in addition to it, the only investment is for the new cassette and chain, i highly recommend record 10sp chain that last way longer than anything else. these are just a few facts i collected over many years and many 000s miles.
i assume you have standard crank, but regardless, this is proven and will make a big difference. btw, it tried all other combos and this one is clear winner.
cheers
forgot to mention: short cage rd works perfectly well with 12-30 cassette, 53/39 crank. also, the transfer ratio changes are smooth. in addition to it, the only investment is for the new cassette and chain, i highly recommend record 10sp chain that last way longer than anything else. these are just a few facts i collected over many years and many 000s miles.
Last edited by ninja2; 03-31-24 at 07:16 PM. Reason: extra info
03-31-24, 03:08 AM
#31
Senior Member
Wow, lots of responses but I have some info to clarify and update about my particular idiosyncrasies:
1). These hills I'm struggling on are not steep! To most of you, you would probably laugh at me! But I'm 57, diabetic, and skinny without much muscle. And now at my age, I just don't have the added strength in my legs that I had when I was younger. So while I've been able to make it up every hill I've attempted so far, sometimes it hasn't been fun. And these are short hills, meaning feet and not miles. I tried to find the grades from Strava but all I could find was 6.5% as the highest and that was 1/3 of a mile. Not sure if that's the steepest as I could only find the grade for segments and not my whole route (free Strava account.) Not sure if that's steep to you guys but it's tough for me. First time I had to stop midway but the last time I made it in one pull and it's also after a less steep climb that is challenging to me. But I made it to my halfway mark (about 12 miles) without a rest so I was happy about that. Overall average was 13mph. I consider this ride a definite improvement both in body and mind as I was feeling good after the ride. I like to ride fast and I'm pretty decent on flat to almost flat roads. But hills are tough, surprisingly so as even when a hill doesn't look like much, I can definitely feel it.
2). When I said I had no patience for a 34/34 gear combo, I meant in my location, that would be complete overkill. I realize some of you are in mountainous terrain but I am not trying to say that our hills are anything like being in the mountains. So forgive me for what may have sounded arrogant; no disrespect or offense intended. I'm sure if I were in CO I would need even more relaxed gearing than that! And my knees are fine (knock on wood) and even when climbing, I don't feel any stress in my knees as my legs give out much sooner, ha ha!
3). Thanks for all the gear calc and options on Miche, etc. Miche does have some nice choices and at good prices. Do they work ok with Campy index shifting? I have researched the gear charts and while very helpful, they don't give a subjective account of what the difference feels like when actually riding. Of course, subjective is.... well, subjective so I realize nothing will substitute for actually buying and trying something new. This thread is just to get some info on what people with much more experience than I have can impart.
4). 20% grade? That's insane if I struggle with 6.5%! What's the steepest you guys ride? And what feels like a "hill" to you? I have no relative experience as I have only ridden alone and on mostly flat areas. What gear would you use for a 6.5% short grade?? Very curious to see how far out I am comparatively.
5). I'll keep riding, improving my strength, of course, and if that's not enough, I'll try a 12-27 or 13-26, whichever I can find for cheapest. Then if that's not enough, as someone said, there are still plenty of options. Failing that, there's always a Ducati, although since I don't have the money for a Campy 12 speed right now, a Ducati would be tough, but gotta keep dreaming!
Thanks to everyone for all the responses so far!
1). These hills I'm struggling on are not steep! To most of you, you would probably laugh at me! But I'm 57, diabetic, and skinny without much muscle. And now at my age, I just don't have the added strength in my legs that I had when I was younger. So while I've been able to make it up every hill I've attempted so far, sometimes it hasn't been fun. And these are short hills, meaning feet and not miles. I tried to find the grades from Strava but all I could find was 6.5% as the highest and that was 1/3 of a mile. Not sure if that's the steepest as I could only find the grade for segments and not my whole route (free Strava account.) Not sure if that's steep to you guys but it's tough for me. First time I had to stop midway but the last time I made it in one pull and it's also after a less steep climb that is challenging to me. But I made it to my halfway mark (about 12 miles) without a rest so I was happy about that. Overall average was 13mph. I consider this ride a definite improvement both in body and mind as I was feeling good after the ride. I like to ride fast and I'm pretty decent on flat to almost flat roads. But hills are tough, surprisingly so as even when a hill doesn't look like much, I can definitely feel it.
2). When I said I had no patience for a 34/34 gear combo, I meant in my location, that would be complete overkill. I realize some of you are in mountainous terrain but I am not trying to say that our hills are anything like being in the mountains. So forgive me for what may have sounded arrogant; no disrespect or offense intended. I'm sure if I were in CO I would need even more relaxed gearing than that! And my knees are fine (knock on wood) and even when climbing, I don't feel any stress in my knees as my legs give out much sooner, ha ha!
3). Thanks for all the gear calc and options on Miche, etc. Miche does have some nice choices and at good prices. Do they work ok with Campy index shifting? I have researched the gear charts and while very helpful, they don't give a subjective account of what the difference feels like when actually riding. Of course, subjective is.... well, subjective so I realize nothing will substitute for actually buying and trying something new. This thread is just to get some info on what people with much more experience than I have can impart.
4). 20% grade? That's insane if I struggle with 6.5%! What's the steepest you guys ride? And what feels like a "hill" to you? I have no relative experience as I have only ridden alone and on mostly flat areas. What gear would you use for a 6.5% short grade?? Very curious to see how far out I am comparatively.
5). I'll keep riding, improving my strength, of course, and if that's not enough, I'll try a 12-27 or 13-26, whichever I can find for cheapest. Then if that's not enough, as someone said, there are still plenty of options. Failing that, there's always a Ducati, although since I don't have the money for a Campy 12 speed right now, a Ducati would be tough, but gotta keep dreaming!
Thanks to everyone for all the responses so far!
A 7% incline is steep and require a good amount of power or low gears to keep cadence up to a reasonable level.
Assuming you are 155 lbs, ride a 20 lbs bike on a 7% incline, you will do 5.4 mph if you put in 150w (that may be a lot to a guy like you)
Assuming your small ring is a 34 you need a 30t in the back to do ~5.4 mph at only 60 rpm.
Assuming your small ring is a 39 you need a 34t in the back to do ~5.4 mph at only 60 rpm.
If you want to spin faster you need more power or even lower gears.
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