Originally Posted by unterhausen

I'm trying to remember the brand that got sued because the cpsc reflectors didn't keep the rider safe at night. People sue due to a bad outcome. The actual fault usually has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I guess we'll have to disagree then, you're saying virtually every shop in the U.S. is skeezy because they do what their customers want. Also, nobody wants to talk about reflectors. The shop I work for doesn't put reflectors on most bikes that cost over $1000. Those customers know what they want and will ask if they want the reflectors put on. Hybrids, kids bikes and other low-end bikes get reflectors. Safety is a tricky subject. If an inexperienced person thought that cpsc minimum reflectors make them at all safe at night, then they are a disservice.

Originally Posted by chaadster

If safety is a tricky subject for you, instead of making assumptions about people, why not just follow the law? By your thinking on the matter, I’ve got a pretty good guess as to the answer...

Originally Posted by chaadster

it’s totally skeezy...completely unethical. If someone needs laws to have teeth to make them compliant, that’s skeezy, too. “No cop, no stop,” is that how we should roll?

I have no problem with the shop removing them if the customer wants, but to suggest that shops not only disregard their legal obligation, and further, make it incumbent upon the buyer to ask for what is supposed to come with the bike, is pretty slimy. Give buyers what they’re supposed to have, and let them decide what do with it.

I’d guess that most people who shop at bike shops are either pretty inexperienced and haven’t thought ever in their life about reflectors, have never given any consideration to bicycle safety and were not taught about it in school, or have no idea that a bike wouldn’t come with reflectors and therefore wouldn’t think to ask about them. I don’t know that’s true, of course, nor do we know the converse is true, or even that a large percentage of buyers don’t want reflectors; correct me if there’s indicative data on that, but I’ e never seen it. Given that, and that reflectors are inexpensive, effective, easy to install and remove safety items for the general public good and have no deleterious effect on the bike or rider, the ethical, non-skeezy position for a shop to take is to mount them as required by law, or at the minimum include them with sale.

Further, it seems to me that a shop could use the reflector discussion to show distinctive service and care to the customer, and use as an upsell strategy for lights. That’s good business. Denying customers their due is not. That’s skeezy, like the OP’s shop and the pedals.

Originally Posted by chaadster

If safety is a tricky subject for you, instead of making assumptions about people, why not just follow the law? By your thinking on the matter, I’ve got a pretty good guess as to the answer...

Originally Posted by chaadster

rebel1916 I would have been surprised if you had anything insightful to offer!

Originally Posted by chaadster

I win, I party, I'm passionate, my bikes are niche and come with pedals...I admit I've got it pretty good.

Originally Posted by chaadster

I’d guess that most people who shop at bike shops are either pretty inexperienced and haven’t thought ever in their life about reflectors, have never given any consideration to bicycle safety and were not taught about it in school, or have no idea that a bike wouldn’t come with reflectors and therefore wouldn’t think to ask about them.

Originally Posted by Random11

I was the one who first mentioned reflectors as a (weak) attempt at humor. Never thought that reflectors could be so controversial.

Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure

In my opinion, they probably shouldn't come with saddles, either. They usually are replaced pretty quickly. What would be cool is if the bike manufacturers would provide 3 or so selections for the purchaser, and they could fit the one they liked best.

Originally Posted by Random11

I followed the link and was surprised to see the requirement that bikes have reflectors. I went to look at my bike just to be sure... and it doesn't have reflectors. I'm guessing my LBS just didn't put them on when they assembled the bike. Looks like I'm riding illegally every time I take the bike out.

Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure

Not really. The retailer must ensure they are installed when sold. If the consumer pulls them off, that's on them as far as the law goes. It's kind of like the 6" tags hanging off of your pillows when you buy them. Everyone cuts them off, but the retailer must sell them with tags on.

Originally Posted by unterhausen

This thread is veering off into the personal, which is never a good thing because everyone knows people are horrible, but it's against the forum rules to point that out in any specific case.

I don't suppose it would be a big loss if I were to close it.

Originally Posted by martin_nv

I just bought a new Giant Talon 2 at the local bike shop, and the sales guy asked if I wanted pedals with that. I was kind of surprised at this, but of course I wanted pedals so I said yes. Is this a common thing now, a new bike not coming with pedals?

Originally Posted by WinterCommuter

it’s quite normal. None of my current bikes came with pedals.

Originally Posted by MRT2

True, unless the shop just assumed OP would be using his own pedals. Even so, the shop should give him the stock pedals unless the customer tells the shop just to keep them.

Originally Posted by martin_nv

I just bought a new Giant Talon 2 at the local bike shop, and the sales guy asked if I wanted pedals with that. I was kind of surprised at this, but of course I wanted pedals so I said yes. Is this a common thing now, a new bike not coming with pedals?

Originally Posted by greeniearts

It is common, as most cyclists are accustomed to a certain pedal/cleat combo, and thus have a preference.

Originally Posted by martin_nv

I just bought a new Giant Talon 2 at the local bike shop, and the sales guy asked if I wanted pedals with that. I was kind of surprised at this, but of course I wanted pedals so I said yes. Is this a common thing now, a new bike not coming with pedals?