Rivendell seems to have changed
08-11-18, 04:33 PM
#76
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The most retrogrouch of retrogrouch brands seems to have changed a bit. Taking a recent look at their frame offerings, I was somewhat surprised to see that they've gone all import and the prices are about half what they were:
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets
Rivendell has offered a couple of imported, less expensive models in recent years but now that trend seems to have swept the entire line. Note that the most expensive production frame is now $1,400. Even the Atlantis is now import. Also, is that (gasp) TIG welding I spy on some of the least expensive frames?
I like made in USA stuff but I think this is a good idea. This pricing makes these bikes much more accessible for more people, the bikes become a reasonable option. Rivendell was never about luxury bikes. Grant professed the brand to be about practical, durable bikes. It was always hard to square that branding with the luxury good pricing. That problem is now largely solved. I know Riv dodged a bullet earlier this year, perhaps this is them getting their business plan back on track.
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets
Rivendell has offered a couple of imported, less expensive models in recent years but now that trend seems to have swept the entire line. Note that the most expensive production frame is now $1,400. Even the Atlantis is now import. Also, is that (gasp) TIG welding I spy on some of the least expensive frames?
I like made in USA stuff but I think this is a good idea. This pricing makes these bikes much more accessible for more people, the bikes become a reasonable option. Rivendell was never about luxury bikes. Grant professed the brand to be about practical, durable bikes. It was always hard to square that branding with the luxury good pricing. That problem is now largely solved. I know Riv dodged a bullet earlier this year, perhaps this is them getting their business plan back on track.
Let me preface my story- I like and respect Grant Petersen and Rivendell and the ideals/philosophy/aesthetic of the company and products- I'm just frustrated and kind of disappointed that I can't get the bike I want when they say/said they can build it.
For the past 10 years or so a Rivendell was a "maybe someday" bike for me. If I'm interested, if I have the money, if it works out- I'll order a Rivendell. I appreciate the steel bike, classic/craftsman/mission style of the Rivendell bikes, I appreciate the overall aesthetic of the Rivendell philosophy- I haven't been into bikes since the Bridgestone days- but reading the Bridgestone catalogs, reading the Rivendell/Grant blogs, reading Just Ride- a lot of it fits with how I ride; how I view bikes and how I view riding- it fits in with my own particular... ...idiom. When the "Hail Mary" thing came thru- I bought in- I thought the company has brought a lot to the cycling community and, more selfishly, I wanted to someday get a Rivendell.
In the past few months, things have kind of lined up- and I decided to call up Rivendell and get an order in. I called and was pleasantly surprised that Grant answered the phone. I talked with him for a while and explained what I wanted- and he seemed to be all down with it. I've always known I have a whole lot of touring bikes- and a dearth of 'go fast' bikes. Most of all my bikes are long- with long 45-47cm chainstays; most of my bikes are intended to carry relatively heavy loads over long distances. Uphill. Barefoot. Both ways. A couple of years ago I built up my "lifetime" bike, my "grail" bike, if you will. It's awesome- it's inspirational, I love it. Now I figure I want a bike that had the grace and class of an old grand touring bike, the "business" elements of an ATB, but a little more "spritely." So I've pretty much decided on an A. Homer Hilsen. Looking at the new Rivendell catalog and the new frames- long chainstays is a thing with Rivendell now. I think it's a cool thing- I've always thought it's a cool thing, but it's a thing on pretty much ALL the models. I think canti brakes are cool- cooler than sidepulls; just the way I see them. I've heard that you can order canti studs on Homers for an upcharge- I wanted that- but, of course, that means a US made frame. Which is great because I've got bikes with the 47cm chainstays- I want a change- I'm actually looking for the 43.5cm chainstays of the US built frames.
This is where things get weird.
After the announcement of the new models, the Rivendell website used to clearly state that you could still order a Waterford frame. The website currently states: A la carte builds available. Grant personally told me on the phone that they still order Waterford frames. I'm really cool with that- Waterford Precision Cycles is fairly literally 'just down the road' from me. Quite literally 8 turns- under 20 miles, according to Google Maps. But he also said they're evaluating other frame builders that can manufacture frames to their specifications and quality standards. (just my thought- Waterford can't do the 46+ cm long chainstays Grant wants- just my guess)
There was some goofiness about my inability to measure my PBH- (several different measurements on several different attempts- and even getting measured at the shop Waterford recommended- I didn't pay for it- but I bought an expensive bike light I really didn't need) at which point Grant got kind of hinky- and I do understand this- I think he genuinely wants me on a bike that I'm going to LOVE; conversely he REALLY doesn't want to put me on a bike that doesn't fit me and that I won't like (and would probably ***** about online). Grant first suggested visiting a dealer and ordering and buying thru them (I had some problems locating a dealer on the site- and really didn't know there was one in the state), and he also suggested ordering a Waterford custom thru Waterford- but the point was I wanted the bike I wanted- A Canti-Homer. I called Rivendell again- I spoke to Scott and found out there is a dealer (Revolution Cycles) in the state - In Madison- about an hour away. Short story long... I drove to Madison- had a long consultation with Jeff the shop owner- and he took the time to measure me, get my ideas, kind of get to know what I was after- and he was really excited about the project and was going to order it and get back to me. A little less than a week later, I get a call from Jeff- he had talked to Rivendell and they told him they didn't have 'custom frame' makers.
I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
__________________
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
08-11-18, 05:13 PM
#77
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08-11-18, 05:44 PM
#78
I'm doing it wrong.
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Probably has to do with the seat lug and tubing being used on some models, other models are 27.2.
Well, on the site it does say that you can get a Roadeo made to order but it isn't saying the original Atlantis as available anymore, but they did previously say you could get the original one with the older geometry. You may be right, the long chainstays may be something Waterford isn't going to do for Riv or it could be what tubing is available domestically, or something else. Who really knows.
I'm sure you have already, but have you looked at the canti Sam Hillborne? It really sounds to me like that bike would fit your priorities pretty well. It is definitely the bike with the "business elements of an ATB, but more spritely. It's honestly the one Rivendell that I've thought I should never have sold. In my experience it rides pretty much identical to the older geometry Homer in feel but braking is more powerful on the Sam. (both of these bikes in my size are 650b and the Sam was my main road ride for several years...my friend has a Homer in my size that i've ridden several times. Not much difference between the two except the Homer did have some lugs that were a bit fancier. The Roadeo lugs were a little fancier looking too). The current canti-Sam would make a pretty killer "gravel bike."
Personally, I've been converted over to the long chainstay thing on these bikes by riding the Appaloosa for the last couple of months.
This is a very timely thread. I feel the need to vent. I think this goes to how supply chains/economics are changing, how Rivendell design is changing and how manufacturing is changing.
Let me preface my story- I like and respect Grant Petersen and Rivendell and the ideals/philosophy/aesthetic of the company and products- I'm just frustrated and kind of disappointed that I can't get the bike I want when they say/said they can build it.
For the past 10 years or so a Rivendell was a "maybe someday" bike for me. If I'm interested, if I have the money, if it works out- I'll order a Rivendell. I appreciate the steel bike, classic/craftsman/mission style of the Rivendell bikes, I appreciate the overall aesthetic of the Rivendell philosophy- I haven't been into bikes since the Bridgestone days- but reading the Bridgestone catalogs, reading the Rivendell/Grant blogs, reading Just Ride- a lot of it fits with how I ride; how I view bikes and how I view riding- it fits in with my own particular... ...idiom. When the "Hail Mary" thing came thru- I bought in- I thought the company has brought a lot to the cycling community and, more selfishly, I wanted to someday get a Rivendell.
In the past few months, things have kind of lined up- and I decided to call up Rivendell and get an order in. I called and was pleasantly surprised that Grant answered the phone. I talked with him for a while and explained what I wanted- and he seemed to be all down with it. I've always known I have a whole lot of touring bikes- and a dearth of 'go fast' bikes. Most of all my bikes are long- with long 45-47cm chainstays; most of my bikes are intended to carry relatively heavy loads over long distances. Uphill. Barefoot. Both ways. A couple of years ago I built up my "lifetime" bike, my "grail" bike, if you will. It's awesome- it's inspirational, I love it. Now I figure I want a bike that had the grace and class of an old grand touring bike, the "business" elements of an ATB, but a little more "spritely." So I've pretty much decided on an A. Homer Hilsen. Looking at the new Rivendell catalog and the new frames- long chainstays is a thing with Rivendell now. I think it's a cool thing- I've always thought it's a cool thing, but it's a thing on pretty much ALL the models. I think canti brakes are cool- cooler than sidepulls; just the way I see them. I've heard that you can order canti studs on Homers for an upcharge- I wanted that- but, of course, that means a US made frame. Which is great because I've got bikes with the 47cm chainstays- I want a change- I'm actually looking for the 43.5cm chainstays of the US built frames.
This is where things get weird.
After the announcement of the new models, the Rivendell website used to clearly state that you could still order a Waterford frame. The website currently states: A la carte builds available. Grant personally told me on the phone that they still order Waterford frames. I'm really cool with that- Waterford Precision Cycles is fairly literally 'just down the road' from me. Quite literally 8 turns- under 20 miles, according to Google Maps. But he also said they're evaluating other frame builders that can manufacture frames to their specifications and quality standards. (just my thought- Waterford can't do the 46+ cm long chainstays Grant wants- just my guess)
There was some goofiness about my inability to measure my PBH- (several different measurements on several different attempts- and even getting measured at the shop Waterford recommended- I didn't pay for it- but I bought an expensive bike light I really didn't need) at which point Grant got kind of hinky- and I do understand this- I think he genuinely wants me on a bike that I'm going to LOVE; conversely he REALLY doesn't want to put me on a bike that doesn't fit me and that I won't like (and would probably ***** about online). Grant first suggested visiting a dealer and ordering and buying thru them (I had some problems locating a dealer on the site- and really didn't know there was one in the state), and he also suggested ordering a Waterford custom thru Waterford- but the point was I wanted the bike I wanted- A Canti-Homer. I called Rivendell again- I spoke to Scott and found out there is a dealer (Revolution Cycles) in the state - In Madison- about an hour away. Short story long... I drove to Madison- had a long consultation with Jeff the shop owner- and he took the time to measure me, get my ideas, kind of get to know what I was after- and he was really excited about the project and was going to order it and get back to me. A little less than a week later, I get a call from Jeff- he had talked to Rivendell and they told him they didn't have 'custom frame' makers.
The reality is, right now you can't.
I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
Let me preface my story- I like and respect Grant Petersen and Rivendell and the ideals/philosophy/aesthetic of the company and products- I'm just frustrated and kind of disappointed that I can't get the bike I want when they say/said they can build it.
For the past 10 years or so a Rivendell was a "maybe someday" bike for me. If I'm interested, if I have the money, if it works out- I'll order a Rivendell. I appreciate the steel bike, classic/craftsman/mission style of the Rivendell bikes, I appreciate the overall aesthetic of the Rivendell philosophy- I haven't been into bikes since the Bridgestone days- but reading the Bridgestone catalogs, reading the Rivendell/Grant blogs, reading Just Ride- a lot of it fits with how I ride; how I view bikes and how I view riding- it fits in with my own particular... ...idiom. When the "Hail Mary" thing came thru- I bought in- I thought the company has brought a lot to the cycling community and, more selfishly, I wanted to someday get a Rivendell.
In the past few months, things have kind of lined up- and I decided to call up Rivendell and get an order in. I called and was pleasantly surprised that Grant answered the phone. I talked with him for a while and explained what I wanted- and he seemed to be all down with it. I've always known I have a whole lot of touring bikes- and a dearth of 'go fast' bikes. Most of all my bikes are long- with long 45-47cm chainstays; most of my bikes are intended to carry relatively heavy loads over long distances. Uphill. Barefoot. Both ways. A couple of years ago I built up my "lifetime" bike, my "grail" bike, if you will. It's awesome- it's inspirational, I love it. Now I figure I want a bike that had the grace and class of an old grand touring bike, the "business" elements of an ATB, but a little more "spritely." So I've pretty much decided on an A. Homer Hilsen. Looking at the new Rivendell catalog and the new frames- long chainstays is a thing with Rivendell now. I think it's a cool thing- I've always thought it's a cool thing, but it's a thing on pretty much ALL the models. I think canti brakes are cool- cooler than sidepulls; just the way I see them. I've heard that you can order canti studs on Homers for an upcharge- I wanted that- but, of course, that means a US made frame. Which is great because I've got bikes with the 47cm chainstays- I want a change- I'm actually looking for the 43.5cm chainstays of the US built frames.
This is where things get weird.
After the announcement of the new models, the Rivendell website used to clearly state that you could still order a Waterford frame. The website currently states: A la carte builds available. Grant personally told me on the phone that they still order Waterford frames. I'm really cool with that- Waterford Precision Cycles is fairly literally 'just down the road' from me. Quite literally 8 turns- under 20 miles, according to Google Maps. But he also said they're evaluating other frame builders that can manufacture frames to their specifications and quality standards. (just my thought- Waterford can't do the 46+ cm long chainstays Grant wants- just my guess)
There was some goofiness about my inability to measure my PBH- (several different measurements on several different attempts- and even getting measured at the shop Waterford recommended- I didn't pay for it- but I bought an expensive bike light I really didn't need) at which point Grant got kind of hinky- and I do understand this- I think he genuinely wants me on a bike that I'm going to LOVE; conversely he REALLY doesn't want to put me on a bike that doesn't fit me and that I won't like (and would probably ***** about online). Grant first suggested visiting a dealer and ordering and buying thru them (I had some problems locating a dealer on the site- and really didn't know there was one in the state), and he also suggested ordering a Waterford custom thru Waterford- but the point was I wanted the bike I wanted- A Canti-Homer. I called Rivendell again- I spoke to Scott and found out there is a dealer (Revolution Cycles) in the state - In Madison- about an hour away. Short story long... I drove to Madison- had a long consultation with Jeff the shop owner- and he took the time to measure me, get my ideas, kind of get to know what I was after- and he was really excited about the project and was going to order it and get back to me. A little less than a week later, I get a call from Jeff- he had talked to Rivendell and they told him they didn't have 'custom frame' makers.
The reality is, right now you can't.
I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
I'm sure you have already, but have you looked at the canti Sam Hillborne? It really sounds to me like that bike would fit your priorities pretty well. It is definitely the bike with the "business elements of an ATB, but more spritely. It's honestly the one Rivendell that I've thought I should never have sold. In my experience it rides pretty much identical to the older geometry Homer in feel but braking is more powerful on the Sam. (both of these bikes in my size are 650b and the Sam was my main road ride for several years...my friend has a Homer in my size that i've ridden several times. Not much difference between the two except the Homer did have some lugs that were a bit fancier. The Roadeo lugs were a little fancier looking too). The current canti-Sam would make a pretty killer "gravel bike."
Personally, I've been converted over to the long chainstay thing on these bikes by riding the Appaloosa for the last couple of months.
08-11-18, 11:39 PM
#79
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Well, on the site it does say that you can get a Roadeo made to order but it isn't saying the original Atlantis as available anymore, but they did previously say you could get the original one with the older geometry. You may be right, the long chainstays may be something Waterford isn't going to do for Riv or it could be what tubing is available domestically, or something else. Who really knows.
I'm sure you have already, but have you looked at the canti Sam Hillborne? It really sounds to me like that bike would fit your priorities pretty well. It is definitely the bike with the "business elements of an ATB, but more spritely. It's honestly the one Rivendell that I've thought I should never have sold. In my experience it rides pretty much identical to the older geometry Homer in feel but braking is more powerful on the Sam. (both of these bikes in my size are 650b and the Sam was my main road ride for several years...my friend has a Homer in my size that i've ridden several times. Not much difference between the two except the Homer did have some lugs that were a bit fancier. The Roadeo lugs were a little fancier looking too). The current canti-Sam would make a pretty killer "gravel bike."
Personally, I've been converted over to the long chainstay thing on these bikes by riding the Appaloosa for the last couple of months.
I'm sure you have already, but have you looked at the canti Sam Hillborne? It really sounds to me like that bike would fit your priorities pretty well. It is definitely the bike with the "business elements of an ATB, but more spritely. It's honestly the one Rivendell that I've thought I should never have sold. In my experience it rides pretty much identical to the older geometry Homer in feel but braking is more powerful on the Sam. (both of these bikes in my size are 650b and the Sam was my main road ride for several years...my friend has a Homer in my size that i've ridden several times. Not much difference between the two except the Homer did have some lugs that were a bit fancier. The Roadeo lugs were a little fancier looking too). The current canti-Sam would make a pretty killer "gravel bike."
Personally, I've been converted over to the long chainstay thing on these bikes by riding the Appaloosa for the last couple of months.
Grant actually suggested the Canti-Sam- and now this goes into the whole "what do I need/ what do I want/ and why" thing. From what I've read... The Sam is a more... beefier bike than the Homer. By that I mean, from what I read- the frame of the Sam is (or was) a more 'heavy duty' frame than the Homer. (I base this on the results of a Google search on "Sam Hillborne vs A Homer Hilsen") If you'll notice the bikes in my sig- most everything is "tourer." Most of my bikes are built for bearing weight and most have 45+ cm chainstays. Not a lot of "lightweight" in that collection. I do like that my bikes ride like the equivalent of a 1972 Cadillac Eldorado (big car show in town tomorrow!), glorious, smooth, cool.
I think what I want for this bike is somewhat akin to the old Specialized Sequoia (but with cantis and clearance). While "Sport Touring" bikes were generally always entry/mid-level bikes- The early 80s Sequoia was a sport tourer with a premium tube set with fender/rack braze ons and specced with Suntour Superbe and other class A components. An early 80s "all-rounder" beyond, yet still stuck within the confines of its time. I look at the Homer as an extension of that- premium tube set... attachment points for fenders, racks, bottles, clearance for wide tires... Take that, braze on some cantis and build it uncompromisingly dominant. Superbe, XC Pro, XTR, XT, Phil Wood... **** yeah. Or maybe the concept is more of a shorter wheelbase tourer with thinner tubing...
My 1986 Trek 400 Elance shares a lot of the same geometry and metallurgy with my 1985 Trek 620. (I don't know about wall thickness- which is more important- but I *assume* similar thicknesses) They're both 531 main frame, CrMo fork and stays- the 400 Elance has 42.5 cm chainstays compared to the 620's 47cm chainstays and the fork offset is different. I believe the Elance to feel more stout than the 620- it rides heavier. IMO- the 720 rides heavier than the 620. You know how there's a give and take between "flexy" and "stiff?" IMO- my 620 has a flexiness that the 720 doesn't have. Here's where we get to what I perceive as the difference in the Sam and Homer- the difference between the 620 and 720.
I've got the load bearing thing covered.
I guess I want a bike that rides light; a bike that the "give" with a reasonable load takes precedence over the "stiff" ... to a point.
Maybe it's a whole lot of overthinking it- but the long and the short of it is I want a spritely, lightweight sport tourer that can take wider tires with cantis and the Rivendell aesthetic- from what I see- that's a US made Canti-Homer. I'm frustrated because I'm waving the ****ing money around and being told they can't make it anymore.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
08-12-18, 12:21 AM
#80
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If one isn't looking at weird aero shaped wedge seat posts, the three most popular standard sizes for seat posts are 25.4mm(but rapidly diminishing), 27.2mm(the most popular choice) and 30.9mm.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
08-12-18, 06:10 AM
#81
Extraordinary Magnitude
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If one isn't looking at weird aero shaped wedge seat posts, the three most popular standard sizes for seat posts are 25.4mm(but rapidly diminishing), 27.2mm(the most popular choice) and 30.9mm.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
The thickness of the tubing of the seat tube is the primary factor for the diameter of the seat post.
Generally speaking, stronger steel can be drawn thinner while maintaining strength, leaving a larger hole for the seat tube. Generally- the less strong the steel is, the thicker the seat tube has to be to maintain proper strength, therefore the seat post must be smaller. Traditionally- the strongest steels were Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL and SP- those were generally 27.2. Schwinn's triple butted CrMo was 26.0, Columbus Tenax was 26.6 and Miyata often used 26.8.
Additionally- if a designer wishes to have a stronger, more stout, set of tubes, they can spec the steel of the seat tube to be thicker- necessitating a smaller seat post. With the advent of aluminum, splined tubing and oversized tubing- the sizing is all over the place.
But the seatpost diameter isn't just pulled out of nowhere- it's a result of the intent of the purpose and materials used to build the frame.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Last edited by The Golden Boy; 08-13-18 at 11:31 AM. Reason: "seat TUBE" in 4th paragraph.
08-12-18, 07:07 AM
#82
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I agree, the seat post diameter is the result of the bicycle design in its basic parameters. For the aftermarket buyer, the biggest issue should be availability. I’d say if one buys a frame that needs a 26.8 or whatever, try to get the seller to include the original seatpost.
08-12-18, 07:48 AM
#83
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If one isn't looking at weird aero shaped wedge seat posts, the three most popular standard sizes for seat posts are 25.4mm(but rapidly diminishing), 27.2mm(the most popular choice) and 30.9mm.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
So I want to see seat posts come in one of those 3 sizes, so I have plenty of options in getting the seat post of my choice.
Cannondale like to use 25.4mm because they say it has more compliance and that's fair enough, but what does 26.8mm give you over 27.2mm? Just less choices in seat posts.
Seriously, if you're buying a Rivendell you don't even have to worry about seatposts at all. Any Riv frame includes a seatpost, bottom bracket, and headset.
08-12-18, 08:05 AM
#84
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Sam Hillborne, Surly Pugsley, Surly Big Dummy
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I was really hoping you'd respond!!
Grant actually suggested the Canti-Sam- and now this goes into the whole "what do I need/ what do I want/ and why" thing. From what I've read... The Sam is a more... beefier bike than the Homer. By that I mean, from what I read- the frame of the Sam is (or was) a more 'heavy duty' frame than the Homer. (I base this on the results of a Google search on "Sam Hillborne vs A Homer Hilsen") If you'll notice the bikes in my sig- most everything is "tourer." Most of my bikes are built for bearing weight and most have 45+ cm chainstays. Not a lot of "lightweight" in that collection. I do like that my bikes ride like the equivalent of a 1972 Cadillac Eldorado (big car show in town tomorrow!), glorious, smooth, cool.
I think what I want for this bike is somewhat akin to the old Specialized Sequoia (but with cantis and clearance). While "Sport Touring" bikes were generally always entry/mid-level bikes- The early 80s Sequoia was a sport tourer with a premium tube set with fender/rack braze ons and specced with Suntour Superbe and other class A components. An early 80s "all-rounder" beyond, yet still stuck within the confines of its time. I look at the Homer as an extension of that- premium tube set... attachment points for fenders, racks, bottles, clearance for wide tires... Take that, braze on some cantis and build it uncompromisingly dominant. Superbe, XC Pro, XTR, XT, Phil Wood... **** yeah. Or maybe the concept is more of a shorter wheelbase tourer with thinner tubing...
My 1986 Trek 400 Elance shares a lot of the same geometry and metallurgy with my 1985 Trek 620. (I don't know about wall thickness- which is more important- but I *assume* similar thicknesses) They're both 531 main frame, CrMo fork and stays- the 400 Elance has 42.5 cm chainstays compared to the 620's 47cm chainstays and the fork offset is different. I believe the Elance to feel more stout than the 620- it rides heavier. IMO- the 720 rides heavier than the 620. You know how there's a give and take between "flexy" and "stiff?" IMO- my 620 has a flexiness that the 720 doesn't have. Here's where we get to what I perceive as the difference in the Sam and Homer- the difference between the 620 and 720.
I've got the load bearing thing covered.
I guess I want a bike that rides light; a bike that the "give" with a reasonable load takes precedence over the "stiff" ... to a point.
Maybe it's a whole lot of overthinking it- but the long and the short of it is I want a spritely, lightweight sport tourer that can take wider tires with cantis and the Rivendell aesthetic- from what I see- that's a US made Canti-Homer. I'm frustrated because I'm waving the ****ing money around and being told they can't make it anymore.
Grant actually suggested the Canti-Sam- and now this goes into the whole "what do I need/ what do I want/ and why" thing. From what I've read... The Sam is a more... beefier bike than the Homer. By that I mean, from what I read- the frame of the Sam is (or was) a more 'heavy duty' frame than the Homer. (I base this on the results of a Google search on "Sam Hillborne vs A Homer Hilsen") If you'll notice the bikes in my sig- most everything is "tourer." Most of my bikes are built for bearing weight and most have 45+ cm chainstays. Not a lot of "lightweight" in that collection. I do like that my bikes ride like the equivalent of a 1972 Cadillac Eldorado (big car show in town tomorrow!), glorious, smooth, cool.
I think what I want for this bike is somewhat akin to the old Specialized Sequoia (but with cantis and clearance). While "Sport Touring" bikes were generally always entry/mid-level bikes- The early 80s Sequoia was a sport tourer with a premium tube set with fender/rack braze ons and specced with Suntour Superbe and other class A components. An early 80s "all-rounder" beyond, yet still stuck within the confines of its time. I look at the Homer as an extension of that- premium tube set... attachment points for fenders, racks, bottles, clearance for wide tires... Take that, braze on some cantis and build it uncompromisingly dominant. Superbe, XC Pro, XTR, XT, Phil Wood... **** yeah. Or maybe the concept is more of a shorter wheelbase tourer with thinner tubing...
My 1986 Trek 400 Elance shares a lot of the same geometry and metallurgy with my 1985 Trek 620. (I don't know about wall thickness- which is more important- but I *assume* similar thicknesses) They're both 531 main frame, CrMo fork and stays- the 400 Elance has 42.5 cm chainstays compared to the 620's 47cm chainstays and the fork offset is different. I believe the Elance to feel more stout than the 620- it rides heavier. IMO- the 720 rides heavier than the 620. You know how there's a give and take between "flexy" and "stiff?" IMO- my 620 has a flexiness that the 720 doesn't have. Here's where we get to what I perceive as the difference in the Sam and Homer- the difference between the 620 and 720.
I've got the load bearing thing covered.
I guess I want a bike that rides light; a bike that the "give" with a reasonable load takes precedence over the "stiff" ... to a point.
Maybe it's a whole lot of overthinking it- but the long and the short of it is I want a spritely, lightweight sport tourer that can take wider tires with cantis and the Rivendell aesthetic- from what I see- that's a US made Canti-Homer. I'm frustrated because I'm waving the ****ing money around and being told they can't make it anymore.
As someone with a Sam, I think I'd have to agree that it's probably not what you are looking for. It's a great bike, but it's not "spritely." It's a beautiful, stable, tough bike that rides amazingly well...but you already have a bunch of those.
I've also owned quite a few different vintage Treks. I'm surprised to hear you say that your 720 rides "heavy." I briefly owned a 1983 720 and found it pretty light and noodly. That, combined with the limited tire clearance is why I sold it. I've also owned a 1984 Trek 620, which was one of the nicest riding bikes I've ever had.
08-12-18, 09:22 AM
#85
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26.8 is a somewhat common size for a seatpost...both Nitto and Thompson offer posts in that size; I'm sure other companies do too but I ain't checking. The good thing with Riv's offerings that utilize the 26.8 size, you generally get a seatpost with a frame purchase. One came with my Appaloosa and my Sam.
A set of Paul Racer brakes on a new Homer would be pretty killer and way less expensive than a custom USA build. There is a picture of a Homer with centerpull boss'ed fork on this blahg post. https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peekin...marks-beausage Maybe it would be the easiest to get bosses added to just the fork of a Taiwan Homer and get it repainted. Eh, probably too much of a hassle.
I guess I'm not that tuned into if bikes ride lively or heavy as I really thought my Sam and my friend's Homer rode very similar to each other. Although, I could really tell a difference between an Atlantis and a Surly LHT where the Atlantis was the more lively bike. Oh well, I think I just get used to whatever bike I'm riding and stop thinking about it. lol
I'm personally waiting for the Riv mtb Grant has been talking about to come out and then I'm buying it...and I would love to have a Legolas. If I found one for sale in my size I'm buying it on the spot.
The one cool thing about Rivs is that they are versatile bikes, so if you have just one you can probably make it do anything you want by switching tires and bars, lol.
A set of Paul Racer brakes on a new Homer would be pretty killer and way less expensive than a custom USA build. There is a picture of a Homer with centerpull boss'ed fork on this blahg post. https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peekin...marks-beausage Maybe it would be the easiest to get bosses added to just the fork of a Taiwan Homer and get it repainted. Eh, probably too much of a hassle.
I guess I'm not that tuned into if bikes ride lively or heavy as I really thought my Sam and my friend's Homer rode very similar to each other. Although, I could really tell a difference between an Atlantis and a Surly LHT where the Atlantis was the more lively bike. Oh well, I think I just get used to whatever bike I'm riding and stop thinking about it. lol
I'm personally waiting for the Riv mtb Grant has been talking about to come out and then I'm buying it...and I would love to have a Legolas. If I found one for sale in my size I'm buying it on the spot.
The one cool thing about Rivs is that they are versatile bikes, so if you have just one you can probably make it do anything you want by switching tires and bars, lol.
08-12-18, 09:57 AM
#86
Extraordinary Magnitude
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If you could bend at all on the canti requirement, the new made in taiwan Homer looks to be a pretty great bike. (And is supposed to have lighter tubing than the Sam.) I didn't see if you stated a preference for 700c or 650b. I'm sure you've already looked at it though. Have you considered looking for a used Homer? It might be a long shot trying to find a used one that also has cantilever brakes, but I'm sure they're out there. Have you checked out the RBW Google Group?
As someone with a Sam, I think I'd have to agree that it's probably not what you are looking for. It's a great bike, but it's not "spritely." It's a beautiful, stable, tough bike that rides amazingly well...but you already have a bunch of those.
I've also owned quite a few different vintage Treks. I'm surprised to hear you say that your 720 rides "heavy." I briefly owned a 1983 720 and found it pretty light and noodly. That, combined with the limited tire clearance is why I sold it. I've also owned a 1984 Trek 620, which was one of the nicest riding bikes I've ever had.
As someone with a Sam, I think I'd have to agree that it's probably not what you are looking for. It's a great bike, but it's not "spritely." It's a beautiful, stable, tough bike that rides amazingly well...but you already have a bunch of those.
I've also owned quite a few different vintage Treks. I'm surprised to hear you say that your 720 rides "heavy." I briefly owned a 1983 720 and found it pretty light and noodly. That, combined with the limited tire clearance is why I sold it. I've also owned a 1984 Trek 620, which was one of the nicest riding bikes I've ever had.
Yes- the new Homers and Sams look to be great bikes- and if I didn't have the bikes I have, I'd totally be interested in either of them. This is something I've casually been looking at over the course of a few years, and really things have lined up in the past 2 months or so. I've known "of" canti-Homers, only one I've seen pix of is someone on Flickr who had them added himself.
My 720 rides heavier in comparison to my 620; the 620 rides lighter than what a 531/CrMo bike should in comparison to a 531/531 bike- at least in my mind.
The 720 rides lighter than my Miyata 1000LT. After switching the 720 to 700C, I'm running 35s and fenders on it- it's a cushy bike. I'm pretty convinced that long chainstays evens out the ride. I find it kind of odd- for years, I've been enamored with long chainstays- now that I'm interested in going in a Rivendell direction- Rivendell's direction steered towards where I'm at.
As I recall- you had the 620 with the pix with the bandana on it?
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08-12-18, 10:43 AM
#87
Sunshine
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I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
40 years of building and refinishing bikes. He has a painting room in his shop and will do any candy, sparkle, etc you want from house of kolor or Imron.
I built my frame with him and spent dozens of hours around the bile he has built and was building- the detail quality is incredible.
it doesnt have rivendell on the frame- thats about the only difference from everything you want.
point is- there are other builders out there. Im sure you know this already, but it's still worth mentioning.
hope you find a way to get what you want!
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08-12-18, 06:34 PM
#88
Banned.
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I think you may wish to reassess how seatposts work.
The thickness of the tubing of the seat tube is the primary factor for the diameter of the seat post.
Generally speaking, stronger steel can be drawn thinner while maintaining strength, leaving a larger hole for the seat tube. Generally- the less strong the steel is, the thicker the seat tube has to be to maintain proper strength, therefore the seat post must be smaller. Traditionally- the strongest steels were Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL and SP- those were generally 27.2. Schwinn's triple butted CrMo was 26.0, Columbus Tenax was 26.6 and Miyata often used 26.8.
Additionally- if a designer wishes to have a stronger, more stout, set of tubes, they can spec the steel of the seat post to be thicker- necessitating a smaller seat post. With the advent of aluminum, splined tubing and oversized tubing- the sizing is all over the place.
But the seatpost diameter isn't just pulled out of nowhere- it's a result of the intent of the purpose and materials used to build the frame.
The thickness of the tubing of the seat tube is the primary factor for the diameter of the seat post.
Generally speaking, stronger steel can be drawn thinner while maintaining strength, leaving a larger hole for the seat tube. Generally- the less strong the steel is, the thicker the seat tube has to be to maintain proper strength, therefore the seat post must be smaller. Traditionally- the strongest steels were Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL and SP- those were generally 27.2. Schwinn's triple butted CrMo was 26.0, Columbus Tenax was 26.6 and Miyata often used 26.8.
Additionally- if a designer wishes to have a stronger, more stout, set of tubes, they can spec the steel of the seat post to be thicker- necessitating a smaller seat post. With the advent of aluminum, splined tubing and oversized tubing- the sizing is all over the place.
But the seatpost diameter isn't just pulled out of nowhere- it's a result of the intent of the purpose and materials used to build the frame.
Thanks for that info, there were definitely things you stated that I was not aware of.
08-13-18, 09:16 AM
#89
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I was really hoping you'd respond!!
Maybe it's a whole lot of overthinking it- but the long and the short of it is I want a spritely, lightweight sport tourer that can take wider tires with cantis and the Rivendell aesthetic- from what I see- that's a US made Canti-Homer. I'm frustrated because I'm waving the ****ing money around and being told they can't make it anymore.
Maybe it's a whole lot of overthinking it- but the long and the short of it is I want a spritely, lightweight sport tourer that can take wider tires with cantis and the Rivendell aesthetic- from what I see- that's a US made Canti-Homer. I'm frustrated because I'm waving the ****ing money around and being told they can't make it anymore.
So, I’m wondering, I sense a whole lot of hair splitting about this, that and the other thing and I’m kinda wondering if you are now ready to pull the trigger only because you can’t? Again, no offense intended as I think I’m seeing a whole lot of myself here.
08-13-18, 11:27 AM
#90
Extraordinary Magnitude
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because I’ve been here myself so it is where I’m coming from. For several years I dreamed of doing ACA’s Great Divide Canada ride. I’d visit the website, read about the ride again, check the availability and there were always spots available. I’d keep dreaming. Same story this year but then, one day, THEY WERE FULL! What? Just when I was ready to pull the trigger, they are full?! I was pissed. I put myself on the waiting list - that was an easy trigger to pull, but then my name came up and they gave me two days to pull the trigger or the spot would pass to the next on the waiting list. Fortunately, I finally pulled the trigger and it was fantastic.
So, I’m wondering, I sense a whole lot of hair splitting about this, that and the other thing and I’m kinda wondering if you are now ready to pull the trigger only because you can’t? Again, no offense intended as I think I’m seeing a whole lot of myself here.
Fair enough- but I think the distinction is I haven't had the full amount of available cash. Cash came in- sitting in my account- made the call. Catalog infers it can be done. Website said it could be done, initially verbally and subsequently in email told it could be done. Then after ordering the bike (but before putting money down), get told it could not be done.
I didn't wait until there was a product change- the product change happened to happen right before I got the funds. Had the money been available to me somewhere in the last 2 years or so- It would have been done then.
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12-30-18, 12:50 PM
#91
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This is a very timely thread. I feel the need to vent. I think this goes to how supply chains/economics are changing, how Rivendell design is changing and how manufacturing is changing.
Let me preface my story- I like and respect Grant Petersen and Rivendell and the ideals/philosophy/aesthetic of the company and products- I'm just frustrated and kind of disappointed that I can't get the bike I want when they say/said they can build it.
For the past 10 years or so a Rivendell was a "maybe someday" bike for me. If I'm interested, if I have the money, if it works out- I'll order a Rivendell. I appreciate the steel bike, classic/craftsman/mission style of the Rivendell bikes, I appreciate the overall aesthetic of the Rivendell philosophy- I haven't been into bikes since the Bridgestone days- but reading the Bridgestone catalogs, reading the Rivendell/Grant blogs, reading Just Ride- a lot of it fits with how I ride; how I view bikes and how I view riding- it fits in with my own particular... ...idiom. When the "Hail Mary" thing came thru- I bought in- I thought the company has brought a lot to the cycling community and, more selfishly, I wanted to someday get a Rivendell.
In the past few months, things have kind of lined up- and I decided to call up Rivendell and get an order in. I called and was pleasantly surprised that Grant answered the phone. I talked with him for a while and explained what I wanted- and he seemed to be all down with it. I've always known I have a whole lot of touring bikes- and a dearth of 'go fast' bikes. Most of all my bikes are long- with long 45-47cm chainstays; most of my bikes are intended to carry relatively heavy loads over long distances. Uphill. Barefoot. Both ways. A couple of years ago I built up my "lifetime" bike, my "grail" bike, if you will. It's awesome- it's inspirational, I love it. Now I figure I want a bike that had the grace and class of an old grand touring bike, the "business" elements of an ATB, but a little more "spritely." So I've pretty much decided on an A. Homer Hilsen. Looking at the new Rivendell catalog and the new frames- long chainstays is a thing with Rivendell now. I think it's a cool thing- I've always thought it's a cool thing, but it's a thing on pretty much ALL the models. I think canti brakes are cool- cooler than sidepulls; just the way I see them. I've heard that you can order canti studs on Homers for an upcharge- I wanted that- but, of course, that means a US made frame. Which is great because I've got bikes with the 47cm chainstays- I want a change- I'm actually looking for the 43.5cm chainstays of the US built frames.
This is where things get weird.
After the announcement of the new models, the Rivendell website used to clearly state that you could still order a Waterford frame. The website currently states: A la carte builds available. Grant personally told me on the phone that they still order Waterford frames. I'm really cool with that- Waterford Precision Cycles is fairly literally 'just down the road' from me. Quite literally 8 turns- under 20 miles, according to Google Maps. But he also said they're evaluating other frame builders that can manufacture frames to their specifications and quality standards. (just my thought- Waterford can't do the 46+ cm long chainstays Grant wants- just my guess)
There was some goofiness about my inability to measure my PBH- (several different measurements on several different attempts- and even getting measured at the shop Waterford recommended- I didn't pay for it- but I bought an expensive bike light I really didn't need) at which point Grant got kind of hinky- and I do understand this- I think he genuinely wants me on a bike that I'm going to LOVE; conversely he REALLY doesn't want to put me on a bike that doesn't fit me and that I won't like (and would probably ***** about online). Grant first suggested visiting a dealer and ordering and buying thru them (I had some problems locating a dealer on the site- and really didn't know there was one in the state), and he also suggested ordering a Waterford custom thru Waterford- but the point was I wanted the bike I wanted- A Canti-Homer. I called Rivendell again- I spoke to Scott and found out there is a dealer (Revolution Cycles) in the state - In Madison- about an hour away. Short story long... I drove to Madison- had a long consultation with Jeff the shop owner- and he took the time to measure me, get my ideas, kind of get to know what I was after- and he was really excited about the project and was going to order it and get back to me. A little less than a week later, I get a call from Jeff- he had talked to Rivendell and they told him they didn't have 'custom frame' makers.
The reality is, right now you can't.
I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
Let me preface my story- I like and respect Grant Petersen and Rivendell and the ideals/philosophy/aesthetic of the company and products- I'm just frustrated and kind of disappointed that I can't get the bike I want when they say/said they can build it.
For the past 10 years or so a Rivendell was a "maybe someday" bike for me. If I'm interested, if I have the money, if it works out- I'll order a Rivendell. I appreciate the steel bike, classic/craftsman/mission style of the Rivendell bikes, I appreciate the overall aesthetic of the Rivendell philosophy- I haven't been into bikes since the Bridgestone days- but reading the Bridgestone catalogs, reading the Rivendell/Grant blogs, reading Just Ride- a lot of it fits with how I ride; how I view bikes and how I view riding- it fits in with my own particular... ...idiom. When the "Hail Mary" thing came thru- I bought in- I thought the company has brought a lot to the cycling community and, more selfishly, I wanted to someday get a Rivendell.
In the past few months, things have kind of lined up- and I decided to call up Rivendell and get an order in. I called and was pleasantly surprised that Grant answered the phone. I talked with him for a while and explained what I wanted- and he seemed to be all down with it. I've always known I have a whole lot of touring bikes- and a dearth of 'go fast' bikes. Most of all my bikes are long- with long 45-47cm chainstays; most of my bikes are intended to carry relatively heavy loads over long distances. Uphill. Barefoot. Both ways. A couple of years ago I built up my "lifetime" bike, my "grail" bike, if you will. It's awesome- it's inspirational, I love it. Now I figure I want a bike that had the grace and class of an old grand touring bike, the "business" elements of an ATB, but a little more "spritely." So I've pretty much decided on an A. Homer Hilsen. Looking at the new Rivendell catalog and the new frames- long chainstays is a thing with Rivendell now. I think it's a cool thing- I've always thought it's a cool thing, but it's a thing on pretty much ALL the models. I think canti brakes are cool- cooler than sidepulls; just the way I see them. I've heard that you can order canti studs on Homers for an upcharge- I wanted that- but, of course, that means a US made frame. Which is great because I've got bikes with the 47cm chainstays- I want a change- I'm actually looking for the 43.5cm chainstays of the US built frames.
This is where things get weird.
After the announcement of the new models, the Rivendell website used to clearly state that you could still order a Waterford frame. The website currently states: A la carte builds available. Grant personally told me on the phone that they still order Waterford frames. I'm really cool with that- Waterford Precision Cycles is fairly literally 'just down the road' from me. Quite literally 8 turns- under 20 miles, according to Google Maps. But he also said they're evaluating other frame builders that can manufacture frames to their specifications and quality standards. (just my thought- Waterford can't do the 46+ cm long chainstays Grant wants- just my guess)
There was some goofiness about my inability to measure my PBH- (several different measurements on several different attempts- and even getting measured at the shop Waterford recommended- I didn't pay for it- but I bought an expensive bike light I really didn't need) at which point Grant got kind of hinky- and I do understand this- I think he genuinely wants me on a bike that I'm going to LOVE; conversely he REALLY doesn't want to put me on a bike that doesn't fit me and that I won't like (and would probably ***** about online). Grant first suggested visiting a dealer and ordering and buying thru them (I had some problems locating a dealer on the site- and really didn't know there was one in the state), and he also suggested ordering a Waterford custom thru Waterford- but the point was I wanted the bike I wanted- A Canti-Homer. I called Rivendell again- I spoke to Scott and found out there is a dealer (Revolution Cycles) in the state - In Madison- about an hour away. Short story long... I drove to Madison- had a long consultation with Jeff the shop owner- and he took the time to measure me, get my ideas, kind of get to know what I was after- and he was really excited about the project and was going to order it and get back to me. A little less than a week later, I get a call from Jeff- he had talked to Rivendell and they told him they didn't have 'custom frame' makers.
The reality is, right now you can't.
I've talked to Grant and Scott at Rivendell, Johanna at Waterford, Doc at Bicycle Doctor, Jeff at Revolution; I've driven 20 miles to Bike Doctors to get professionally measured and then back home, I've driven 70 miles to Revolution Cycles and back- I'm ****ing waving around $3000 saying "build me a ****ing bike." It shouldn't be this ****ing hard.
12-30-18, 01:06 PM
#92
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Wow, that's sad. He once sent me an end cap for a tubus rack that was missing one that I'd bought elsewhere. I'd just written him asking him if he knew where I could find one to buy (or if he could sell me one). He sent it to me free of charge. I'd always said that, if I ever got together the spare money for a nice set of Ortleib's (and ever got around to doing any real touring), I'd definitely get them from him.
12-31-18, 10:32 AM
#93
Senior Member
Why not just build your own frame? Takes some learning by mistake, but in the end you will have precisely what you desire. I am currently in the final design phase of my 4th frame and am enjoying the process more than ever. Alternately, Doug Fattic has build your own classes available. I guarantee he won't let any mistakes slide by, and in the end you will have an heirloom to pass on to the next generation.
12-31-18, 10:37 AM
#94
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I'm tempted to pick up an Atlantis . . . .I love the color and the design.
01-01-19, 01:28 PM
#95
Senior Member
One of the things Rivendell does right is to offer bikes with wheels that are more proportionately sized for the frames. 559 for small frames, 584 for slightly larger frames, and 622 for the largest frames.
GP long tried to get a new tire size built with a bead seat diameter of 603mm. He could get the rims built but not the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years one of the big players announced the new ideal tire size, 603mm.
GP long tried to get a new tire size built with a bead seat diameter of 603mm. He could get the rims built but not the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years one of the big players announced the new ideal tire size, 603mm.
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01-01-19, 06:41 PM
#96
Banned
What's the thing with 26.8 mm seat posts?
for a 27.2 post the seat tube wall is thinner at the top. .. 0.7 vs 0.9.. not even 1.5mm difference.. still 0.9 at the bottom (butt) ...
So, ream out the seat tube on your own, maybe?
I shined up my 27.0 RB 1 with a reamer , till a 27.2 post just fit .. and now very little effort to clamp the post in the frame...
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 01-01-19 at 06:54 PM.
01-02-19, 04:43 AM
#97
Senior Member
When Grant was going on about 603mm bead seat diameter I dropped him a note saying that 597 had been largely abandoned by tire makers but there was a significant built-in market with old Schwinns and collectors of British 26x1-1/4 bikes. And it was only 1% different from his proposal. And the tire makers had molds for 597 already, all they needed was an order. Got back a 1500 word rant about how 1% really matters. And he was a genius. And I understood nothing about bicycles. Kinda lost interest in his sales spiel after that.
01-02-19, 09:56 AM
#98
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Linus Pauling once said the way to have a great idea is to have a lot of ideas, most of which are not so great, but every so often, you might have a great idea. GP and Rivendell have a lot of ideas, but they aren't all great ideas, but some are. Small outfits like Rivendell are important, otherwise we'd all be dependant on the big firms like Trek and Specialized.
01-02-19, 11:46 AM
#99
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Don't own a Rivendell, never rode one.
Still the conclusion is clear to anyone not living with blinders on. It is a company that has or soon will outlive it's window of relevance. Rivendell almost exactly mirrors another American company, Harley Davidson. Harley is the greatest motorcycle ever built or a hopelessly outdated relic depending on who you ask. The Motor Company has been taking it on the chin the last few years, because it went all in on the "we're right and everyone of those idiots buying a different design is beneath our contempt" H-D was guided for the last several decades by an ego-maniac that thought he was a genius. The true reason for their huge success from 1984 -2006 had nothing to do with who was running the company and everything to do with baby-boomers flush with cash and deep feeling of nostalgia. Harley's core base group is dying off fast, and they made the huge mistake of alienated the next generations by treating them like they were idiots.
Still the conclusion is clear to anyone not living with blinders on. It is a company that has or soon will outlive it's window of relevance. Rivendell almost exactly mirrors another American company, Harley Davidson. Harley is the greatest motorcycle ever built or a hopelessly outdated relic depending on who you ask. The Motor Company has been taking it on the chin the last few years, because it went all in on the "we're right and everyone of those idiots buying a different design is beneath our contempt" H-D was guided for the last several decades by an ego-maniac that thought he was a genius. The true reason for their huge success from 1984 -2006 had nothing to do with who was running the company and everything to do with baby-boomers flush with cash and deep feeling of nostalgia. Harley's core base group is dying off fast, and they made the huge mistake of alienated the next generations by treating them like they were idiots.
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01-02-19, 01:58 PM
#100
Senior Member
HD doesn't treat others that ride other brands like idiots. Really they don't do that. I ride Italian motorbikes and have always been comfortable around HD riders when I see them. Nice people ride Harleys, too. HD, along with the other bike makers, missed the mark by pushing larger and larger machines on the market. The Japanese brands have been able to respond quicker than HD as they already produce small displacement bikes for other markets and have been able to adapt them to the US market. The other thing the Japanese makers have is the four-wheeler. The saving grace of machines for these manufacturers. They have some sharp people running those companies, and they saw the four-wheeler as an emerging market and adopted it quickly.
All of the motorcycle companies are suffering sales loss. Not as many young people ride motorbikes as the boomer generation did. If they do, they want scooters and small displacement bikes, not 1400cc monsters. HD's electric bike is a mistake, but it will be a learning tool for them and the rest of the market.
How does this relate to Rivendell? It doesn't. That is the point here.
All of the motorcycle companies are suffering sales loss. Not as many young people ride motorbikes as the boomer generation did. If they do, they want scooters and small displacement bikes, not 1400cc monsters. HD's electric bike is a mistake, but it will be a learning tool for them and the rest of the market.
How does this relate to Rivendell? It doesn't. That is the point here.