atwl77

I read that the golden advice on brevets is to minimize off-bike time as much as possible, this becomes especially more important on the longer rides in order to meet cut off times... but we still have to stop for breaks, food, stamping brevet cards, sleep and so on. Which makes me wonder, just how much is too much? I suspect different country cultures, especially when it comes to things like food and refueling strategies, plays a major role in this...... but so far I have a feeling I've been spending waayyy too much time off-bike and I could finish a lot of brevets a lot earlier.

Here are some times from some of my brevets from this year:

200km: Duration 11:28, Moving time 8:14, Stopped time 3:13
300km: Duration 18:07, Moving time 13:09, Stopped time 4:47
400km: Duration 28:03, Moving time 18:52, Stopped time 9:10 (actual distance was 446.3km with +2 hour extension on COT)
600km: Duration 40:00, Moving time 24:58, Stopped time 15:02

How about yours?

alois

My last brevets:
200 km: Duration: 10:29, Moving time: 7:01, Stopped time: 3:28 (had to wait for a new tire for two hours)
300 km: Duration: 15:24, Moving time: 12:56, Stopped time: 2:28
400 km: Duration: 17:38, Moving tine: 15:12, Stopped time: 2:26
600 km: Duration 31:40, Moving time 25:20, Stopped time 6:20

siebengang

These are my brevet times this year. The first four were quite efficient (especially the 400 km). The 600 km was a test to ride without a sleep stop, which led to many small breaks lateron. On the last 200 km I had no intention to finish in the shortest possible time. Total / moving / stopped:

• 200 km: 07:35 / 06:34 / 01:01
• 300 km: 13:03 / 11:22 / 01:41
• 200 km: 07:41 / 06:59 / 00:42
• 400 km: 17:50 / 16:19 / 01:31
• 600 km: 34:22 / 25:33 / 08:49 (actually 640 km)
• 200 km: 09:22 / 07:33 / 01:49 (actually 215 km)

Machka 

Rowan and I did a 200K and 300K before his accident. That's as far as we got through the Super Series this year.


200K

Distance: 215.47km
Elevation: 1,484m
Moving Time: 10:55:56
Elapsed Time: 12:34:18

Time off the bicycle: 01:38:22 ... and it would have been even shorter, but we were stopped for 5 or 10 minutes at road construction about 3 km before the finish!!! Do you know how maddening that is?
https://www.bikeforums.net/20175794-post41.html


300K

Distance: 303.22km
Elevation: 2,825m
Moving Time: 16:18:41
Elapsed Time: 18:18:31

Time off the bicycle: 01:59:50
https://www.bikeforums.net/20215963-post2.html

GadgetGirlIL

I've only ever done 200K brevets. A quick glance at my data shows that I typically have less than 1 hour off the bike. But I'm also a slower rider - total elapsed time ranged from 10:40 to 12:13 for the 200K brevets I've done this year. I also never have liked to stop long on any bike ride I've done as I stiffen up too much. Gotta keep moving!

ETA - the 12:13 was a brevet that started at 2pm so there was significant riding in the dark. Since I didn't want to ride in the dark alone on country roads, I willingly took the longer breaks that my riding companions preferred.

unterhausen

You really want to minimize the amount of unproductive time off the bike. If you are eating or resting, that is productive time. But standing around in a daze or socializing is a real waste of time that will end up putting you in even more of a daze the next day on a long ride.

On the Mac 'n' Cheese 1200k, we stopped at a restaurant and lost over an hour because of slow service. That directly impacted our sleep that night, and I was exceptionally grumpy* the last day as a result. That was the only night I didn't get enough sleep. And the next day was the only time there was a timed control in the morning, so I'm guessing there were people that didn't make the cutoff since we left 4 minutes before control closing and everyone wasn't there yet.

*some people might say that's a distinction without a difference, but my normal level of grumpiness is tolerable to me, whereas this was a level of grumpiness that impacted my mood.

rhm

I did a 200k brevet last Saturday. Moving time 8:37, total time 9:30, so that's 0:53 stopped.

On the Mac & Cheese 1200, moving time 55:27, total time 88:58, so that's 23:29 stopped.

Those numbers are from Strava, and the total runs from when I pressed 'go' until I pressed 'stop.' In both cases I believe my official time will be less --probably 9:28 and 84:48 respectively, and in both cases the moving time is probably exaggerated as well --GPS often shows me moving when I am in fact not moving at all. That won't be more than a couple minutes, though.

Randonneuring involves many skills. Learning to minimize stopped time, especially at controles, is important.

antimonysarah

Mine this year (according to GPS as uploaded to Strava data, which does include "stopped at a traffic light" as stopped most of the time; generally doesn't count "walking uphill slowly" as stopped):

200k #1 (fairly flat): 44 minutes off-bike (total time 10:20)
300k #1 (gently rolling): 3 hours 16 minutes off-bike (total time 18:23) including over an hour dealing with flat tires and a while trying to call the organizer when a control store had closed before control closing and I didn't know the area well enough to know that there was another store literally around next the corner I could use
200k #2 (hilly): 42 minutes off-bike (total time 12:27)
300k #2 (very hilly, pouring cold rain): 2 hours 7 minutes off-bike (total time 19:30) including 30 minutes of flat-tire fixing and two longer-than-usual stops for hot food
400k (fairly flat): 1 hour 57 minutes stopped (total time 20:42)
600k (fairly flat): 8 hours 4 minutes stopped (total time 38:35, including four hours at the overnight control (3 sleeping) and some time on day 2 when a fellow rider had a mechanical issue

I am considered to be pretty quick through controls; on that 400k I finished an hour before several friends who are consistently faster riders (.5-1mph/1-2km/hr faster) than I am while moving -- they passed me several times in the first third of the ride, and then eventually stopped for long enough that I got out ahead of them and never saw them again.)

So it looks like I spend about a half-hour per 100k off-bike on long rides, with 200ks a little less because I usually don't stop for a real meal, plus sleep stops.

...actually, that tells me a LOT about my DNF on the Lap of Lake Ontario -- I spent over 5 hours stopped in the first ~400k, which did not include a sleep stop.

clasher

I'm all over the place with time-off-bike, especially on 200s. I've done one under 9h and one over 13h. I love eating and enjoy stopping whenever there's something good to eat. On a 200K last weekend we stopped for lunch for about an hour and eventually 3 more riders joined our table so we had a nice group that stayed together for the next 75K or so... I finished in 10:20 but was only on the bike for 8:08. Looking on strava my average moving speed on a brevet hasn't been below 21km/h on the long ones and most 200K are done 23-26km/h usually.

Stopped time is about half-wasted for me on the longer rides, this year on our hilly 600 I had over 10 hours of stopped time but only about 4 hours of that was spent at the overnight... I know I stopped for a few more meals than I should have but I still finished with almost 3 hours in the bank so it's not usually a huge problem for me, but part of the reason I DNF'd on the Cascade this year was because of how much time I wasted (4 hours for 360km) during the first day, led to less sleep and more exhaustion on the second day.... probably would have DNF'd anyway since my achilles ultimately did me in. My tendancy to squander time at controls is part of the reason I am not too keen on going to Paris next year.

Carbonfiberboy 

A mountain 400 (12,150'): ~18:30 ET, 15:38 moving time, i.e. ~3 hours in controls or otherwise stopped, getting water, rubbing my feet, etc. There were people who spent less time. I pretty much left when the people I wanted to leave with went.
A flat 400k (5000'): 14:55 ET, 13:17 moving time, so 1:40 stopped. I wasn't as whupped on this one.
Hilly-ish 200 (5600') 7:58 ET, 7:27 moving time. 1 stop, 2 hidden controls, country roads. The point was beating 8 hours. I felt good.

unterhausen

I don't regret wasting time at controls on PBP too much, although I tried not to do that. I walked through the bike parking at Brest taking pictures of bikes, for example. I think it's a pretty fast course, at least for me. OTOH, we had (mostly) tailwinds both ways in 2011, maybe I would feel different if we had headwinds. You can also save time by eating at cafes, the lines at controls can be quite slow. I think the card stamping operations were always pretty fast. Someone was quoted in the RUSA magazine as saying that they never spent more time at controls than they wanted to spend during PBP. I would say my search for water was not easy sometimes and I wish the food lines were faster. Although I really enjoyed the food.

Spoonrobot 

I've only done 200s and 300s but I try to keep my time to a minimum. My last 300 I had an hour off the bike but that included almost 45 minutes talking to the organizer since he followed the riders from control to control and wanted to chat. For 200s I usually can keep it down to 15-20 minutes - our controls almost never have a line so it's a quick in/out to get a receipt or check for info control.

atwl77

Wow, this just confirms a lot of time-wasting on my part. Thinking back, the main time suckers are:
1) eating -- plenty of "let's stop here to eat", which typically involves sitting down, ordering, waiting for orders to arrive, eating, waiting for everyone to finish eating. Especially true at the controles
2) regrouping -- sometimes to make sure everyone is together before continuing, sometimes as an excuse to rest while waiting for the slower members to show up
3) resting -- popular spots include cold drink roadside stalls and petrol stations with convenience stores

Not sure how much time I can actually shave off with a group... especially since that seems to be the randonneuring culture here, unless I want to ride solo, which is sometimes also unadvisable for safety reasons. Also due to local climate (it gets pretty hot during the day), rest stops can also be pretty common.

But I'll certainly try and keep this in mind and see if I can try to nag the group to keep on moving and stop dilly dallying. Maybe...

yannisg

If the brevet has a lot of climbing (4000m in 200k) I will minimize the stopping time to about 30 to 40 min, just enough to get the card stamped and refuel. With this much climbing I don't have much time leeway, and save some time in case I get a flat. In general, I don't think the extra stopping time helps yr performance, and might even hinder it because you will cool down. I generally pay more attention to pacing myself correctly rather than increasing rest periods. If the brevet has moderate climbing my stopping time increases to 1 hour or more for social reasons. On very long brevets (1000k) I have been very careful with the rest periods so I don't miss the control points.

StephenH

Typical numbers for me- take 10 hours for a 200k, average 15 mph rolling average- so that adds up to an hour and a half or two hours. On a 600k, we try to have 5 hours off the bike between day 1 and day 2.
I just did three 200k-ish perms in NM and CO, and they all went noticeably slower, due mainly to extra climbing involved. Plus maybe taking some extra pictures.

unterhausen

To me, wasting time on a 200k, 300k, 400k, is not really wasting time if I'm enjoying myself. Wasting time on a multi-day ride is a different matter. I have only once managed to get close to dnf'ing a 200k on time, but that was mostly due to bad cramps on an early season ride. And my dirt 200k isn't fast either, but even with a last minute flat, we have never taken more than 13 hours on that.

StephenH

Agreed on the wasting time.
On a 600k or longer ride, spending extra time at controls cuts into your sleep time, so it's advantageous not to do it.
On shorter rides, assuming you're not running the clock out, it's entirely personal preference.
Hanging around while you yak with your friends is no problem.
Hanging around while your friends or other people yak among themselves gets old in a hurry.
If you're trying to set some personal record or something, that's a little different.
Otherwise, I don't see much motivation to go cramming food in my mouth while I'm waiting to pay for it so I can save 5 minutes off a 10 hour ride. Or to ride off and leave my friends sitting there so I can save that five minutes.

unterhausen

there were two people that dnf'd the Eastern PA overnight 200k because they wasted too much time in controls. I left the people I had been riding with because they seemed like they were going to take forever at one of the controls. I was done and I'm not a big fan of sitting on a curb waiting for people. Maybe if the food was better. In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have because they were not too far behind us at the next control. It wasn't a matter of time, that was the fastest 200k I rode this year, I just wanted to be on my bike.

Machka 

I find that, for me, it is a good idea to be quick in and out of the controls during the first half of a ride so that I can build up time in the bank. Then, if I'm tired and need to take longer in a control in the second half of the ride, I can.

On our 200K this year, it was really hot. We don't get that kind of heat in Tasmania! But the ride started early and the temp wasn't bad until about the halfway point, so I was really glad we had time in the bank at that point because we stopped more frequently on the way back for frozen snacks (there were an iced lemon and a creamy mango bar that were really good) and cold coke.

znomit

I think 30 minutes per 100km (not including sleep) is reasonable.

GadgetGirlIL

Don't forget to factor in the number of controls. The 200K I rode yesterday had 9 controls (not including start/finish). 7 of them were information controls of which I had to backtrack on 2 of them to try to figure out what I was supposed to be looking for. I never did find "look for the yellow sign on the side of the road". I also had to make at least 4 more stops to take more electrolytes, buy more fluids, and use a bathroom. The route made a big loop through the far western suburbs of Chicago so there were numerous traffic lights and even a long freight train that delayed me.

Elapsed time 11:49, actual time in motion 10:16.

rhm

Yeah, that is a good point!
Been there! On the BRB this spring there was an info controle like that, "what does the sign in the middle of the field say?". But there was no sign in the middle of the field. Apparently it had said "farm for sale," but in the mean time someone had bought the farm.

:Lol:. Yeah, that happened to my team on the DC flèche this year. Somehow we got caught in a rail yard between two freight trains, neither one moving. No way to go forward, no way to go back. Doh! The train in front of us eventually started moving, very slowly... you really can't appreciate how long these things are until you see one go by at 5 mph.

iTrod

No matter how well I plan, I manage to spend too much time off the bike during brevets and perms. Flaffing about is my forté. My goal is to limit downtime to one hour per 200k. I have never gotten close to this goal for a multitude of reasons. I suspect that I will have a problem at PBP unless my average moving speed on the bike is 17 mph or greater...

atwl77

I just finished my first 1000k over the weekend. 71:49 total time, 43:50 moving time, 27:58 stopped time. Holy crap that is a lot of stopped time, and I didn't get much "real" sleep in also, though I spent a ton of time taking very short power naps along the route. The 8pm night start is a major factor, but I think I need to spend more time analysing the ride to find out what I could have and shouldn't have done... and table out just where all that spent time went. But one thing I'm quite certain from this experience, night starts aren't for me.

clasher

When I did my first 1200 last year, I was about 47:18 moving and and stopped for 21:25 and we'd probably got 6 hours of sleep between the two night stops. I haven't done a night start for a big ride like that but based on my experience with a flèche starting at 18:00 I am not really keen on night starts either, but if I were to do it again I would do all I could to get more sleep the day before. One of these days I want to try and plan a ride a little bit, see if that helps limit my stopped time. I know on the cascade this year I was too lackadaisical with my stops and that squandered my sleep time on random stops for junk food.