Commuter19

mcours2006

The only way to be sure is to check the serial. Missing valve cap is a poor indication, and the scratches, unless you have a photo of you bike showing the scratches before it was stolen, wouldn't be so reliable either.

Steal the bike. Check the serial, if it's yours, keep it. If it's not, put it back with a note of apology.

alan s 

jon c. 

Scratches could be reliable if you remember them well. But if you just have "an odd feeling" that it is your old one, maybe you only sort of remember what they look like. You would probably have to involve the cops to get it back so you want to be reasonably certain it's yours. You don't sound all that certain.

Commuter19

Those are the only things how i recognize it. That's what i mean i won't know for sure unless i can get the serial number which i can't due to it being locked up by i dunno who also If you were to steal it you get risk getting caught and you don't want to get yourself arrested. Espeically in my area where police are driving past frequently. Also a lot of people hang out around that area.

Commuter19

That's because it's a very common brand and you can't be 100% without checking the serial number which you can't acess when it's locked up. i had nothing else missing on my bike apart from the valve cap and a few stratches. Those are the only things that make me think is mine from last year. :///. I dunno how else you can be certain

Also another things is you don't want to risk just staying in town to see if anyone comes to unlock it and then confront that person and ask because that'll just put yourself at risk.

alan s 

Kedosto

C'mon man. If you're claiming you can't verify the numbers on a locked bike then you're not trying hard enough. If I seriously suspected a bike locked to a rack was mine, I'd get the number off the bottom bracket, even if I had to lay in the mud to do it. Hell, holding your phone under the bike for a quick pic should do it.

Get the number -- no excuses. If it's yours, slap a big, fat lock on it and call the police. Be ready to prove it's yours when they arrive. Oh, and bring something to cut off the other guys lock. I recommend an 18v cutting wheel.


-Kedosto

acidfast7

That's why I don't buy generic bicycles.

Korina

That's why I decorate mine.

RubeRad

Why does being locked up mean you can't get the serial #? You can't put a cell phone underneath and take a picture?

madpogue 

^^^^^ Do phone cameras focus that close? I was thinking of putting a mirror under it and shooting that.

Darth Lefty 

daoswald

Good ones do.

Skipjacks

It's not just enough to know its yours and verify it by having the serial number

You have to prove you are the rightful owner of that serial number

What's stopping the other person from saying you sold him the bike last year for cash? No receipt. No paper trail.

How can you prove you ever owned that serial number in the first place?

See what I'm saying?

Without some proof of your loss the cops are going to side with the person who is in possession of the bike today.

Did you file a police report when it was stolen? That's the kind of thing that would give you credible documentation that the bike was stolen and not sold. Even then the current owner can claim you sold it then filed a police report. Though at that point there is a burden of proof that starts to spread to the current owner.

It's just a tough thing to prove.

RubeRad

Also, it's quite possible (more likely even) that whoever is in possession of the stolen bike is not the thief, but bought it from the thief, and probably has no idea it was stolen.

alan s 

robertorolfo

These are all good points, and I've actually wondered what I could do to "register" my current bikes to prevent this in the future. Is there a reliable and legitimate way of doing so? What do most of you on here do?

And then there's this. What happens in these circumstances? The new "owner" hasn't done anything wrong, so would they suddenly be out of a bike they paid for? I can only imagine some person claiming one of my bikes was previously stolen from them. I'd feel really bad, and probably just give it back if they really could prove it and seemed to care about the bike, but that's a pickle of a situation.

RubeRad

https://www.nationalbikeregistry.com/

I've been meaning to do this for a few months now since I heard a great podcast with the founder of the 529 garage.

https://outspokencyclist.com/2018/04...april-14-2018/

Skipjacks

Again, even if you registered your bike somewhere, how do you prove it was actually stolen and not legally sold to the current owner?

This is why possession is 9/10th of the law. (That's not really a law, by the way. It just means the burden of proof is on the person claiming the property is stolen)

When the cops show up to sort things out you can show them all the bike registrations you want showing you used to own the bike. But that is not in dispute. It's relatively easy to prove you USED to own the bike but no one cares if you USED to own it. What matters is who legally owns it NOW

As for the new owner, if you are in possession of stolen goods you're out of luck. If the rightful owner can prove he is the rightful owner the current owner is screwed, even if they had no idea the bike was stolen. Now, if you are unknowingly in possession of stolen goods and there is no proof that you were aware the bike was stolen, then you don't get in any trouble. But you don't get your money back.

That's why it's important when you bike something expensive off Craigslist to protect yourself.

First off, make the transaction at the seller's house. Don't meet in the abandoned quarry 20 miles outside of town. Someone selling stolen goods won't be selling them out of his house since that is the first place you will send the cops if you find out you bought stolen goods. If you aren't comfortable going to the seller's house, you probably shouldn't be meeting up with that person anywhere.

Second, get a receipt. Make the seller sign it. (If you're buying a $100 old beater....skip this part. If you are buying a $2000 carbon bike, write up a receipt). If the bike does turn out to be stolen later you can prove that you didn't steal it, and can give the cops evidence about who did, and can sue to recoup your money. (Good luck with that one...but without the receipt you have no chance)

Ultimately though if you buy a used bike that turns out to be stolen and the rightful owner comes to claim it....you are out the money.

It's one of the advantages of buying from a legitimate store. It tends to cost a little more but if the bike does turn out to be stolen you have a printed receipt from a business who will really have no choice but to give you a full refund. It would be cheaper for them to eat the loss than to get a reputation of selling stolen bikes. (Plus they will give you a tune up and stuff too)

Sometimes you just have to use your instincts. If it's a Craiglist deal for a brand new carbon fiber bike for $300....alarm bells should be going off. I mean maybe it's just someone who had no idea what it's worth. But it's probably stolen. If the Craiglist ad is too elaborate with a back story of "I am selling this cheap because it's my ex boyfriend's and he left me pregnant and I just need money fast" it's a stolen bike. If everything seems legit until you get to the seller's house and the back yard has 400 bikes in various sizes and styles(meaning they aren't all his) just keep driving.

But if the bike is offered at a reasonable price and you talk to the seller on the phone and meet him at his house and nothing is making your spidey sense tingle, take the risk. But get a receipt.

The human brain is REMARKABLE at detecting someone lying to you. It has amazing accuracy in giving you warning that something about an interaction doesn't smell right. We all develop that skill over years of interacting with other humans. Where the system is flawed is that we often ignore the voice in our heads saying "RUN! THIS DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT!" because we want to convince ourselves that it's a legit good deal. The brain told you it's wrong but we ignore it. Don't ignore it. Trust your instincts. They are probably right.

RubeRad

If you use the registry to promptly report your bike as stolen, that report will have a date, which I assume would count as evidence in your favor, putting the ball in court of the alleged thief (or receiver of stolen property) to provide some proof of a sale -- email/txt history from responding to craigslist ad for instance.

Skipjacks

It's not going to hurt to do that.

But how does the cop who shows up to the scene know that you're not the one running the scam where you sell your bike so someone for cash, then report it stolen so you can 'recover' the bike and keep the cash that there is no transaction record of? (This is why you as a bike buyer should demand a signed receipt from the seller, so you can't be the victim of this scam)

For that matter, if the bike was actually stolen the thief might just claim you are running the above mentioned scam. How does the policy or the court know who's lying? If that's all the proof you have the cops are going to let the thief keep the bike.

It certainly won't hurt you to have timestamped documentation of the theft. If you can combine that with other evidence (not sure what...) it starts to build a stronger case for you.

But if that's all you have, you don't have anything...including your stolen bike.

RubeRad

How often do bike sales occur with no text or email record of arranging to meet up?

I guess those arrangements could be made over a phone call only, in which case call logs could be subpoena'd, but that's not going to happen on the spot, and probably will never happen for a low-ish value item like most bikes.

And a thief could always use a burner phone.

But that's not a long-term scam, a thief could probably only get that past the police once. 2nd time hopefully they'd look at the registry and see a (contested) previous theft/recovery and inquire deeper.

But yes, it can't hurt for a buyer to request a written receipt. Or how about a selfie with the bike, and the buyer&seller shaking hands (that also gets a timestamp, and maybe a geotag as well)

robertorolfo

Wow, you are pretty good at this devil's advocate stuff (and I can appreciate that). What you wrote is possible, but that scam couldn't really work more than once or twice (I know, it only takes once with an expensive bike, and incompetent cops/moving around could make it work multiple times). So there are some loopholes, but they don't seem too bad.

What I want to know is what the OP ended up doing???

Skipjacks

Like you say...it doesn't have to work more than once.

All of it is low probability anyway. The vast majority of used bike sales are 100% legitimate.

And you as the buyer and seller can seriously reduce the little risk that remains with a few easy to do things if you go through with a transaction. And then just trusting your instincts and not being afraid to walk away if it doesn't smell right prevents any chance of being caught up in something.

As for the cops, I'd guess 90% of the time they know who's lying and who isn't within 60 seconds of showing up on the scene. But the cop knowing which of you is the thief and which is the victim is not the same as having evidence to prove that. So just because the cop can't do anything doesn't mean he's incompetent. But legally, his opinion hold no weight. He has to have evidence to transfer possession of property from one party to another or to arrest someone.

Think about getting pulled over for speeding. The cop knows you were speeding. You know you were speeding. But you still say "What?" This was a 55mph zone? I had no idea...nor did I know my car could do 106". So he can't make you pay the fine on the scene no matter how much you both know you are guilty. He has to prove it in court with evidence (radar reading, his witness statement, etc)