My E+ review
#501
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Easter, Andy
battery made of A123 20Ah pouch cells was my choice for powering my Eplus /12 cells in series/.
depends how much range do you need , how long you want your battery to last, how much weight want to carry, etc.
I switched to Nissan Leaf salvaged cells battery since than for more than 50km range in power level 3.
A123 20 Ah cells I think are compromise for weight, range, longevity.
just Google A123.
battery made of A123 20Ah pouch cells was my choice for powering my Eplus /12 cells in series/.
depends how much range do you need , how long you want your battery to last, how much weight want to carry, etc.
I switched to Nissan Leaf salvaged cells battery since than for more than 50km range in power level 3.
A123 20 Ah cells I think are compromise for weight, range, longevity.
just Google A123.
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You are likely right that Error 1 is a coincidence and probably has nothing to do with the sense board wiring. Lately, I get Error 1 almost every time I turn on the display. I have to disconnect the batteries, reconnect and it will finally work after several repeats. (until the next time I want to ride).
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ERROR1 newer happend to me unless I disconnect comm cable to motor, Never.
Obvious EMS Lithium Polymer battery B had faulty electronics which refused to "make a handshake" with display/contr.
Obvious EMS Lithium Polymer battery B had faulty electronics which refused to "make a handshake" with display/contr.
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soon I am going to post about my new battery pack made from 11 Chevy Volt cells.
I have been constructing it for 2 months now
and cannot wait to test it once the weather gets warmer.
I have been constructing it for 2 months now
and cannot wait to test it once the weather gets warmer.
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I would definitely consider selling one of my hubs, but want to get the bike moving first. Considering whether or not I can get it going by using LiFePo4 batteries (configuration shape like D-Cells) to replace NiMh in the hub, use existing boards, and avoid putting a pack on the back of the bike or on the frame. I think the batteries are either 32650 or 32600. Saw some at Batteryspace.com. Your thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
https://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...-3-passed.aspx
https://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...-3-passed.aspx
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Easter
presuming those cells from batteryspace are exact size of original Eplus cells.
I dont have any left so I cannot check.
they are 15A max discharge so 3C , not bad
BUT
China manufacturers are notorious for inflated specs. and batteryspace just reprint what specs supplier provides, I am sure.
I would say they are 10 A discharge max, max
with this chemistry you need 12 in series but even 10A is too little for 1000W Eplus
you need 3 strings of 12 cells to paraller to allow 30A draw.
so 12 in series 3 pallarel combination = 36 cells
if you do 2 strings of 12 cells - those cells would work hard and not last long.
you have only room for 30 cells
presuming those cells from batteryspace are exact size of original Eplus cells.
I dont have any left so I cannot check.
they are 15A max discharge so 3C , not bad
BUT
China manufacturers are notorious for inflated specs. and batteryspace just reprint what specs supplier provides, I am sure.
I would say they are 10 A discharge max, max
with this chemistry you need 12 in series but even 10A is too little for 1000W Eplus
you need 3 strings of 12 cells to paraller to allow 30A draw.
so 12 in series 3 pallarel combination = 36 cells
if you do 2 strings of 12 cells - those cells would work hard and not last long.
you have only room for 30 cells
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So ideally you would need 3 strings of 12 cells in series
total 36 cells
but where to place extra 6 cells???
I understand low centre of gravity, but I found steering front wheel with all that weight of battery uncomfortable.
total 36 cells
but where to place extra 6 cells???
I understand low centre of gravity, but I found steering front wheel with all that weight of battery uncomfortable.
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Just looking at your post. Great job accessing your motor. Trying to do the same, but so far, no good. Could you share how you were able to do this? Can you now access all areas of your motor? A few of us still hanging on to Epluses are trying to get into this area. Thanks so much!
Easter3
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Easter
first you have to try to slide this collar out which blocks access to retaining snap ring.
rest is easy.
but why do you want to have a look inside motor?
you said in your previous post:
"the motor and controller are good..."????
Also Wrander, Andy, wrote above that your motor/controller, harnesses appear to be good when he went to visit you.
first you have to try to slide this collar out which blocks access to retaining snap ring.
rest is easy.
but why do you want to have a look inside motor?
you said in your previous post:
"the motor and controller are good..."????
Also Wrander, Andy, wrote above that your motor/controller, harnesses appear to be good when he went to visit you.
Last edited by powell; 01-16-19 at 08:22 PM.
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Great job on getting to the inside of the motor. We are trying to do the same, and were hoping that you could post info, and hopefully pics on how you were able to accomplish this. We have been working with other members of this forum to get an old EPlus running again. The parts seem to all work, but the batteries don't seem to be holding charge. Your help getting into the motor would be really appreciated. Thanks much!!!!
Easter3
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Hi Powell,
Still interested in fixing my EPlus. Monte worked with Firedog91902 this weekend to see if they could make any headway. They accomplished a lot, but we are still tossing some things around. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Take care!!
Easter3
Still interested in fixing my EPlus. Monte worked with Firedog91902 this weekend to see if they could make any headway. They accomplished a lot, but we are still tossing some things around. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Take care!!
Easter3
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DrTumolo's picture shows that communication cable was repaired before
also very close to the hub you can see cut on shield of comm cable.
Cabling inside EPLUS motor is rock solid , nothing to look for. Electronics are another thing.
I suspect he didn't check comm cable for continuity properly, I guess continuity was intermittent
when you check for continuity you must wiggle comm cable around .
disc brakes are culprit pretty often
also very close to the hub you can see cut on shield of comm cable.
Cabling inside EPLUS motor is rock solid , nothing to look for. Electronics are another thing.
I suspect he didn't check comm cable for continuity properly, I guess continuity was intermittent
when you check for continuity you must wiggle comm cable around .
disc brakes are culprit pretty often
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again Wrandyr ,/ Andy/
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
#516
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again Wrandyr ,/ Andy/
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
Monte, Easter3's husband, brought her bike to me to help them sort out their battery choices. We got bogged down with Error 1 using different bike/board/battery combinations. He left the bike with me and I soon found the data cable we used for all the test had a broken orange wire inside that cable. I fixed that and Error 1 is gone.
Before finding the fix, I was frustrated and considering connecting my motor directly to an external controller. I tried to open my hub but got stuck on the access to the cir-clip holding the cover on the controller side. I should have seen from the photos it's pressed or pushed on and isn't threaded. Anyway, Monte took my motor for Easter to have a look. She asked you how to open it. Just for the info, did you need a gear puller to remove the collar?
It's a good thing I couldn't open the hub and bypass Eplus's controller. Having 2 bikes to swap parts for tests allowed me to get both bikes working perfectly on either the stock NiMH D cells hub or an external Lithium battery. I learn a couple things that I haven't seen published before. I will do a separate posts for each.
Last edited by Firedog91902; 01-19-19 at 09:17 AM.
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E+ wiring hardness schematic
In preparation for changing to Lithium battery, I pulled the wiring harness off the frame and trace all the connections (see diagram below). Notice that battery data and power lines of battery A and B are all in parallel. Since the batteries were never used at the same time, battery B must have had the same (or similar) built in, control circuits as the NiMH front hub battery. The the display controls switching from A to B using the serial data bus. It's likely the bike could be used with only the battery B and the front hub removed. IF that is true, anyone with Lithium Battery B would have the control circuits in a more compact form. Of course the battery B's ID much match the display's. Does anyone know how to change the ID in either the display or front hub circuits? There is also the safety issue of using the Battery B's BMS to charge. It would be prudent to switch the battery to a trusted BMS for charging as you do in your design.
E+ wiring harness
E+ wiring harness
Last edited by Firedog91902; 01-19-19 at 09:12 AM.
#518
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E+ sense boards
2 of six boards must have their 3 wires connected to the front hub boards. Without them, a battery connected to the hub boards puts the display into charging mode. (The display lights up automatically and shows the charge symbol and the flashing gauge.) No way to get out of the false charging mode. But...the 6v (5 x 1.2v) power connection to the sense boards is not needed for the bike to run normally. That makes connecting to an external battery, especially a removable battery, much easier.
Below is a picture of my E+. The battery hub boards are in the water proof box behind the seat post. The bike mounts four 18V 10.5ah tool batteries (2s2p). Only 2 are required. Just 2 surpass the WHs and max amps of the original NiMH battery. Using 4 more than double the range since the cells are barely stressed even in a hard start, Level 9 (~1300 watts).
Below is a picture of my E+. The battery hub boards are in the water proof box behind the seat post. The bike mounts four 18V 10.5ah tool batteries (2s2p). Only 2 are required. Just 2 surpass the WHs and max amps of the original NiMH battery. Using 4 more than double the range since the cells are barely stressed even in a hard start, Level 9 (~1300 watts).
#519
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Firedog,
now I understand why you wanted to open motor.
to use external controller with EPLUS ???
don't know what to start with.
first hall sensor wires to route them outside of motor hub - how would you do it? where the room for them??
you would give up on wonderful 9 power levels, 9 regen levels, super efficient FOC field oriented control system???
you would give up on thermal protection ??
install thermistor in motor and route wires outside - where is the room for them to go through the hub???
I cannot stress enough importance of protecting comm cable especially near motor where it can be easly damaged by frame, disc brake , etc.
that is what happened to Metalman's Eplus I guess.
now I understand why you wanted to open motor.
to use external controller with EPLUS ???
don't know what to start with.
first hall sensor wires to route them outside of motor hub - how would you do it? where the room for them??
you would give up on wonderful 9 power levels, 9 regen levels, super efficient FOC field oriented control system???
you would give up on thermal protection ??
install thermistor in motor and route wires outside - where is the room for them to go through the hub???
I cannot stress enough importance of protecting comm cable especially near motor where it can be easly damaged by frame, disc brake , etc.
that is what happened to Metalman's Eplus I guess.
#520
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Powell,
Of course it would be crazy give up all the features designed into the E+ unless there was something in the electronics or display (or too expensive) that couldn't be fixed. Or...you only had a rear wheel. Then the only option to use the motor is bypass the interior controller and connect an external controller directly to the 3 phase wires and 5 hall wires. The E+'s power or serial bus cables would no longer be used. The 3+5 new wires are no bigger. I've done this with several Stromer ($5k+ bikes) and the results are amazing. Stromer's also has the controller inside and they replace the whole, not fix, any issue with the motor or the controller under warranty. Those "bad" motors+wheels+brake discs+tires+9 speed freewheel end up in the dumpster and then on craigslist for a few dollars.
I've only seen 2 of Easters front hub boards and 1 display. 1 of those sets and a non matching display ID was left with me. The top board on it was bad (best I can tell). The bottom board was ok and that's where the ID is stored. I'm hoping Monte will bring the rest of his hardware and there is a good board set and a matching display. After that she'll have and amazing working bike with whatever battery she chooses. I assume she'll have no use for the rest of the parts.
Of course it would be crazy give up all the features designed into the E+ unless there was something in the electronics or display (or too expensive) that couldn't be fixed. Or...you only had a rear wheel. Then the only option to use the motor is bypass the interior controller and connect an external controller directly to the 3 phase wires and 5 hall wires. The E+'s power or serial bus cables would no longer be used. The 3+5 new wires are no bigger. I've done this with several Stromer ($5k+ bikes) and the results are amazing. Stromer's also has the controller inside and they replace the whole, not fix, any issue with the motor or the controller under warranty. Those "bad" motors+wheels+brake discs+tires+9 speed freewheel end up in the dumpster and then on craigslist for a few dollars.
I've only seen 2 of Easters front hub boards and 1 display. 1 of those sets and a non matching display ID was left with me. The top board on it was bad (best I can tell). The bottom board was ok and that's where the ID is stored. I'm hoping Monte will bring the rest of his hardware and there is a good board set and a matching display. After that she'll have and amazing working bike with whatever battery she chooses. I assume she'll have no use for the rest of the parts.
#521
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Powell,
Monte, Easter3's husband, brought her bike to me to help them sort out their battery choices. We got bogged down with Error 1 using different bike/board/battery combinations. He left the bike with me and I soon found the data cable we used for all the test had a broken orange wire inside that cable. I fixed that and Error 1 is gone.
Monte, Easter3's husband, brought her bike to me to help them sort out their battery choices. We got bogged down with Error 1 using different bike/board/battery combinations. He left the bike with me and I soon found the data cable we used for all the test had a broken orange wire inside that cable. I fixed that and Error 1 is gone.
#522
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In preparation for changing to Lithium battery, I pulled the wiring harness off the frame and trace all the connections (see diagram below). Notice that battery data and power lines of battery A and B are all in parallel. Since the batteries were never used at the same time, battery B must have had the same (or similar) built in, control circuits as the NiMH front hub battery. The the display controls switching from A to B using the serial data bus. It's likely the bike could be used with only the battery B and the front hub removed. IF that is true, anyone with Lithium Battery B would have the control circuits in a more compact form. Of course the battery B's ID much match the display's. Does anyone know how to change the ID in either the display or front hub circuits? There is also the safety issue of using the Battery B's BMS to charge. It would be prudent to switch the battery to a trusted BMS for charging as you do in your design.
The hub batteries are not serialized to the controller. Only the motor is. You can swap the batteries around however you like.
#523
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As far as I know, E+ never got around to marketing an auxiliary battery. If you wanted a battery B, they sold you another hub, which would have had its own BMS boards. I think MetalMan had his set up this way for a while.
The hub batteries are not serialized to the controller. Only the motor is. You can swap the batteries around however you like.
The hub batteries are not serialized to the controller. Only the motor is. You can swap the batteries around however you like.
"So it sounds like you got one of the batteries to take some sort of charge" Actually we only tried to charge a few of his NiMH cells and those didn't behave properly. They were near zero and in just a few minutes of 1amp (.1C) charging they reached 1.7V. I believe that condition is cause by a dry cell, usually because of significant overcharging and the cells venting O2 and H2 instead of it recombining to water if the overcharge was more moderate. I wish I had kept his cell for further testing.
#524
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HI
to all recent EPLUS uses .
Looks like Easter gave up on repairing her EPLUS.
Her EPLUS joined hundreds of EPLUSes all around USA abandoned by owners.
Who would want to sell broken ebike? very few.
But I would buy any broken 1000W EPLUS IN ANY MOMENT.
For sure many of them with little millage for sure with dead original hub batteries.
Like my example and Metalmen's example shows EPLUS can last for thousends of miles.
to all recent EPLUS uses .
Looks like Easter gave up on repairing her EPLUS.
Her EPLUS joined hundreds of EPLUSes all around USA abandoned by owners.
Who would want to sell broken ebike? very few.
But I would buy any broken 1000W EPLUS IN ANY MOMENT.
For sure many of them with little millage for sure with dead original hub batteries.
Like my example and Metalmen's example shows EPLUS can last for thousends of miles.
#525
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So I want to start new post about building new battery for my beloved summer EPLUS .
I thought this post would give anybody ideas about construction of ebike battery, not just for EPLUS.
New battery uses Chevy Volt cells dismantled from 2017 Volt.
11 cells in series.
of course I wired EPLUS original electronics inside the battery.
more info coming if anybody interested.
here are pictures
Last edited by powell; 02-23-19 at 01:59 PM. Reason: add