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My E+ review

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My E+ review

Old 01-01-19, 08:01 PM
  #501  
powell
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Easter, Andy
battery made of A123 20Ah pouch cells was my choice for powering my Eplus /12 cells in series/.
depends how much range do you need , how long you want your battery to last, how much weight want to carry, etc.
I switched to Nissan Leaf salvaged cells battery since than for more than 50km range in power level 3.
A123 20 Ah cells I think are compromise for weight, range, longevity.
just Google A123.
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Old 01-02-19, 03:18 PM
  #502  
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Originally Posted by Firedog91902
You are likely right that Error 1 is a coincidence and probably has nothing to do with the sense board wiring. Lately, I get Error 1 almost every time I turn on the display. I have to disconnect the batteries, reconnect and it will finally work after several repeats. (until the next time I want to ride).
Now that you mention it, I had this sort of problem when I first got my bike, when it had the LiPo battery. It was very intermittent, and of course always happened when I was running late. I don't think I ever found a cause or solution. Since the LiPo battery was in a separate pack, I was in the habit of taking it with me whenever I left the bike. I also removed it from the bike for charging. There may be some clue there. It hasn't happened with either of my hub batteries.
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Old 01-04-19, 06:32 AM
  #503  
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ERROR1 newer happend to me unless I disconnect comm cable to motor, Never.
Obvious EMS Lithium Polymer battery B had faulty electronics which refused to "make a handshake" with display/contr.
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Old 01-04-19, 11:08 AM
  #504  
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Easter,
you wrote you had 4 battery hubs,
ever considered to sell one or two?
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Old 01-05-19, 09:08 AM
  #505  
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soon I am going to post about my new battery pack made from 11 Chevy Volt cells.
I have been constructing it for 2 months now
and cannot wait to test it once the weather gets warmer.
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Old 01-05-19, 02:47 PM
  #506  
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Originally Posted by powell
Easter,
you wrote you had 4 battery hubs,
ever considered to sell one or two?
Hi Powell,
I would definitely consider selling one of my hubs, but want to get the bike moving first. Considering whether or not I can get it going by using LiFePo4 batteries (configuration shape like D-Cells) to replace NiMh in the hub, use existing boards, and avoid putting a pack on the back of the bike or on the frame. I think the batteries are either 32650 or 32600. Saw some at Batteryspace.com. Your thoughts or experience would be appreciated.

https://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...-3-passed.aspx
https://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...-3-passed.aspx
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Old 01-06-19, 10:23 AM
  #507  
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Easter
presuming those cells from batteryspace are exact size of original Eplus cells.
I dont have any left so I cannot check.
they are 15A max discharge so 3C , not bad
BUT
China manufacturers are notorious for inflated specs. and batteryspace just reprint what specs supplier provides, I am sure.
I would say they are 10 A discharge max, max
with this chemistry you need 12 in series but even 10A is too little for 1000W Eplus
you need 3 strings of 12 cells to paraller to allow 30A draw.
so 12 in series 3 pallarel combination = 36 cells
if you do 2 strings of 12 cells - those cells would work hard and not last long.
you have only room for 30 cells
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Old 01-07-19, 11:03 AM
  #508  
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So ideally you would need 3 strings of 12 cells in series
total 36 cells
but where to place extra 6 cells???
I understand low centre of gravity, but I found steering front wheel with all that weight of battery uncomfortable.
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Old 01-10-19, 11:28 AM
  #509  
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Easter
so I undertand you are not interested in fixing your EPLUS.?
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Old 01-14-19, 04:14 PM
  #510  
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Originally Posted by Drtumolo


Finally got the motor open. I was hoping to find a broken wire or some obvious physical damage but so far I have found nothing.
Hi DrTumolo,
Just looking at your post. Great job accessing your motor. Trying to do the same, but so far, no good. Could you share how you were able to do this? Can you now access all areas of your motor? A few of us still hanging on to Epluses are trying to get into this area. Thanks so much!

Easter3
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Old 01-14-19, 06:25 PM
  #511  
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Easter
first you have to try to slide this collar out which blocks access to retaining snap ring.
rest is easy.
but why do you want to have a look inside motor?
you said in your previous post:
"the motor and controller are good..."????
Also Wrander, Andy, wrote above that your motor/controller, harnesses appear to be good when he went to visit you.

Last edited by powell; 01-16-19 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 01-14-19, 11:55 PM
  #512  
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Originally Posted by Drtumolo


Finally got the motor open. I was hoping to find a broken wire or some obvious physical damage but so far I have found nothing.
Hi DrTumolo,

Great job on getting to the inside of the motor. We are trying to do the same, and were hoping that you could post info, and hopefully pics on how you were able to accomplish this. We have been working with other members of this forum to get an old EPlus running again. The parts seem to all work, but the batteries don't seem to be holding charge. Your help getting into the motor would be really appreciated. Thanks much!!!!

Easter3
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Old 01-15-19, 12:00 AM
  #513  
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Originally Posted by powell
Easter
so I undertand you are not interested in fixing your EPLUS.?
Hi Powell,
Still interested in fixing my EPlus. Monte worked with Firedog91902 this weekend to see if they could make any headway. They accomplished a lot, but we are still tossing some things around. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Take care!!

Easter3
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Old 01-15-19, 08:26 PM
  #514  
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DrTumolo's picture shows that communication cable was repaired before
also very close to the hub you can see cut on shield of comm cable.
Cabling inside EPLUS motor is rock solid , nothing to look for. Electronics are another thing.
I suspect he didn't check comm cable for continuity properly, I guess continuity was intermittent
when you check for continuity you must wiggle comm cable around .
disc brakes are culprit pretty often
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Old 01-16-19, 08:27 PM
  #515  
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again Wrandyr ,/ Andy/
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
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Old 01-19-19, 01:04 AM
  #516  
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Originally Posted by powell
again Wrandyr ,/ Andy/
in post #495 wrote that your motor and harness and display/controller work good, just batteries are problems.
Again I don't understand why you want to take that motor apart????
Powell,

Monte, Easter3's husband, brought her bike to me to help them sort out their battery choices. We got bogged down with Error 1 using different bike/board/battery combinations. He left the bike with me and I soon found the data cable we used for all the test had a broken orange wire inside that cable. I fixed that and Error 1 is gone.

Before finding the fix, I was frustrated and considering connecting my motor directly to an external controller. I tried to open my hub but got stuck on the access to the cir-clip holding the cover on the controller side. I should have seen from the photos it's pressed or pushed on and isn't threaded. Anyway, Monte took my motor for Easter to have a look. She asked you how to open it. Just for the info, did you need a gear puller to remove the collar?

It's a good thing I couldn't open the hub and bypass Eplus's controller. Having 2 bikes to swap parts for tests allowed me to get both bikes working perfectly on either the stock NiMH D cells hub or an external Lithium battery. I learn a couple things that I haven't seen published before. I will do a separate posts for each.

Last edited by Firedog91902; 01-19-19 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 01-19-19, 01:16 AM
  #517  
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E+ wiring hardness schematic

In preparation for changing to Lithium battery, I pulled the wiring harness off the frame and trace all the connections (see diagram below). Notice that battery data and power lines of battery A and B are all in parallel. Since the batteries were never used at the same time, battery B must have had the same (or similar) built in, control circuits as the NiMH front hub battery. The the display controls switching from A to B using the serial data bus. It's likely the bike could be used with only the battery B and the front hub removed. IF that is true, anyone with Lithium Battery B would have the control circuits in a more compact form. Of course the battery B's ID much match the display's. Does anyone know how to change the ID in either the display or front hub circuits? There is also the safety issue of using the Battery B's BMS to charge. It would be prudent to switch the battery to a trusted BMS for charging as you do in your design.


E+ wiring harness

Last edited by Firedog91902; 01-19-19 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 01-19-19, 01:32 AM
  #518  
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E+ sense boards

2 of six boards must have their 3 wires connected to the front hub boards. Without them, a battery connected to the hub boards puts the display into charging mode. (The display lights up automatically and shows the charge symbol and the flashing gauge.) No way to get out of the false charging mode. But...the 6v (5 x 1.2v) power connection to the sense boards is not needed for the bike to run normally. That makes connecting to an external battery, especially a removable battery, much easier.

Below is a picture of my E+. The battery hub boards are in the water proof box behind the seat post. The bike mounts four 18V 10.5ah tool batteries (2s2p). Only 2 are required. Just 2 surpass the WHs and max amps of the original NiMH battery. Using 4 more than double the range since the cells are barely stressed even in a hard start, Level 9 (~1300 watts).
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Old 01-19-19, 10:51 AM
  #519  
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Firedog,
now I understand why you wanted to open motor.
to use external controller with EPLUS ???
don't know what to start with.
first hall sensor wires to route them outside of motor hub - how would you do it? where the room for them??
you would give up on wonderful 9 power levels, 9 regen levels, super efficient FOC field oriented control system???
you would give up on thermal protection ??
install thermistor in motor and route wires outside - where is the room for them to go through the hub???
I cannot stress enough importance of protecting comm cable especially near motor where it can be easly damaged by frame, disc brake , etc.
that is what happened to Metalman's Eplus I guess.
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Old 01-19-19, 01:07 PM
  #520  
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Powell,
Of course it would be crazy give up all the features designed into the E+ unless there was something in the electronics or display (or too expensive) that couldn't be fixed. Or...you only had a rear wheel. Then the only option to use the motor is bypass the interior controller and connect an external controller directly to the 3 phase wires and 5 hall wires. The E+'s power or serial bus cables would no longer be used. The 3+5 new wires are no bigger. I've done this with several Stromer ($5k+ bikes) and the results are amazing. Stromer's also has the controller inside and they replace the whole, not fix, any issue with the motor or the controller under warranty. Those "bad" motors+wheels+brake discs+tires+9 speed freewheel end up in the dumpster and then on craigslist for a few dollars.

I've only seen 2 of Easters front hub boards and 1 display. 1 of those sets and a non matching display ID was left with me. The top board on it was bad (best I can tell). The bottom board was ok and that's where the ID is stored. I'm hoping Monte will bring the rest of his hardware and there is a good board set and a matching display. After that she'll have and amazing working bike with whatever battery she chooses. I assume she'll have no use for the rest of the parts.
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Old 01-19-19, 07:26 PM
  #521  
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Originally Posted by Firedog91902
Powell,

Monte, Easter3's husband, brought her bike to me to help them sort out their battery choices. We got bogged down with Error 1 using different bike/board/battery combinations. He left the bike with me and I soon found the data cable we used for all the test had a broken orange wire inside that cable. I fixed that and Error 1 is gone.
So it sounds like you got one of the batteries to take some sort of charge. That is further than Monte and I got when he was here. We weren't even able to get the screen to light up. That is progress!
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Old 01-19-19, 07:33 PM
  #522  
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Originally Posted by Firedog91902
In preparation for changing to Lithium battery, I pulled the wiring harness off the frame and trace all the connections (see diagram below). Notice that battery data and power lines of battery A and B are all in parallel. Since the batteries were never used at the same time, battery B must have had the same (or similar) built in, control circuits as the NiMH front hub battery. The the display controls switching from A to B using the serial data bus. It's likely the bike could be used with only the battery B and the front hub removed. IF that is true, anyone with Lithium Battery B would have the control circuits in a more compact form. Of course the battery B's ID much match the display's. Does anyone know how to change the ID in either the display or front hub circuits? There is also the safety issue of using the Battery B's BMS to charge. It would be prudent to switch the battery to a trusted BMS for charging as you do in your design.
As far as I know, E+ never got around to marketing an auxiliary battery. If you wanted a battery B, they sold you another hub, which would have had its own BMS boards. I think MetalMan had his set up this way for a while.

The hub batteries are not serialized to the controller. Only the motor is. You can swap the batteries around however you like.
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Old 01-19-19, 10:15 PM
  #523  
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Originally Posted by wrandyr
As far as I know, E+ never got around to marketing an auxiliary battery. If you wanted a battery B, they sold you another hub, which would have had its own BMS boards. I think MetalMan had his set up this way for a while.

The hub batteries are not serialized to the controller. Only the motor is. You can swap the batteries around however you like.
That makes more sense. To clear things up. Monte left his display, his motor (the ID's match) and a broken front hub AL structure with the 2 BMS boards mounted. The upper BMS board is not working (display won't light) . When I substitute my working upper BMS board, his bike works fine using either my good NiMH cells or connecting any external 36v source (Lithium). He has 2 or 3 more front hubs BMS board sets, and I'm sure at least 1 of the upper boards is working. I think all his issues are solved, except them deciding on Lithium or NiMH. I'll give him my working cells if he wants them.

"So it sounds like you got one of the batteries to take some sort of charge" Actually we only tried to charge a few of his NiMH cells and those didn't behave properly. They were near zero and in just a few minutes of 1amp (.1C) charging they reached 1.7V. I believe that condition is cause by a dry cell, usually because of significant overcharging and the cells venting O2 and H2 instead of it recombining to water if the overcharge was more moderate. I wish I had kept his cell for further testing.
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Old 02-23-19, 01:37 PM
  #524  
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HI
to all recent EPLUS uses .
Looks like Easter gave up on repairing her EPLUS.
Her EPLUS joined hundreds of EPLUSes all around USA abandoned by owners.
Who would want to sell broken ebike? very few.
But I would buy any broken 1000W EPLUS IN ANY MOMENT.
For sure many of them with little millage for sure with dead original hub batteries.
Like my example and Metalmen's example shows EPLUS can last for thousends of miles.
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Old 02-23-19, 01:56 PM
  #525  
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So I want to start new post about building new battery for my beloved summer EPLUS .
I thought this post would give anybody ideas about construction of ebike battery, not just for EPLUS.
New battery uses Chevy Volt cells dismantled from 2017 Volt.
11 cells in series.
of course I wired EPLUS original electronics inside the battery.
more info coming if anybody interested.
here are pictures

Last edited by powell; 02-23-19 at 01:59 PM. Reason: add
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