spirit733t

I just go the bike delivered, its the saracen chromo killi 2, I will have to wait at least for next pay day to buy the kit, so at least a month away..
so my basic idea is to only install the following parts;

hub motor, controller box, rear disc brake system, thumb throttle and battery...

I dont intend to use the papa motor brakes handles or PAS, as I am a newbie on bikes, and dont want to do any thing to complicated?

my bike has a 10 wheel(gears) rear freewheel.. I wish I could use that?

also shimano 775 hydraulic disc brakes... which I will defo need help in mounting this onto the papa motor wheel.

by the way when you got your package delivered in the USA , did you have to pay any form of tax on the goods?

and as for your manual, I really hope that you do it..

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Where do you plan on keeping the battery and the controller? I highly recommend getting the cargo cache and a strong rear bike rack. You'll enjoy the bike even more when you can carry a small amount of cargo and not have to worry about the controller and battery being exposed to the elements or to curious eyes.

Take a picture of your bottom bracket, the section where your pedals attach to the bike frame, and post it here. You'll be surprised how easy it is to install the PAS and you may not have to use the Dremel on the PAS ring. Then if you don't want to use it you just don't have to plug in the connection to the controller.

Remember, you can always sell your new stock bicycle parts on ebay, back to the bike store, etc.


No, problem and I'm jealous you have the hydraulic brakes.

No, I didn't have to pay any taxes.

If your the only one that needs the instructions then it would be easier to just PM me. I'll respond back within 12 hours. If there were more people interested in detailed instructions then it would be worth the time to create one.

spirit733t

this is picture of the rear rack, its quick mount onto the seat post.. it actually consist of two separate parts, one is the actual rack and the second is the silver metal side panel frame thing.. the reason for the silver side panel metal thing is this



and heres some pictures of the crankset

spirit733t

by the way, what is the reasoning behind not being able to use more than 6 gear cogs on the rear freewheel thing?

can I definitely not use my stock 10 wheel free-wheel?

and also can you tell me what is the diameter of your brake discs? I think mine is 160 mm / 16 cm.

and what is the diameter of the brake disk on the papa motor kit?

can you tell me how long did it take for eh delivery to happen to yourself?

thanks again

EBikeFL 

You can use more than six gear cogs but remember you also have all the components and spacers of the rear hub motor as well. All these spacers and cogs add up pushing your rear fork more and more apart which puts stress on the rear fork welded sections.

You won't be able to use your stock 10 free wheel because the hub motor has a different diameter connection than your stoke rear hub.

Also, you won't need the gears once you have the hub motor installed...unless your looking to get a workout on your commutes.

My brake discs are 160 mm and the rear hub motor brake disc is 160 mm.

The kit arrived in 10 days and the Ping battery took a few days longer.

EBikeFL 

The Ping battery won't fit in that rear rack bag. I tried it and had to return the bag back. Also, the silver frame is a good idea but most panniers will need a horizontal bar or two lower than the top bar to use as a connection point. You need to keep in mind security of your bike rack. The more connections you have to the frame the more stable it will be and more of a deterrent to those who will want to steal it. Don't forget to get the Pitlocks I mentioned earlier in this thread for your seat post and front wheel. Here's the link to a real beefy rear rack https://www.jandd.com/search_results....el=2&subcat=13. Go for the Expedition Rack along with the cargo cache.

You will also definitely need the www.ebike.ca universal torque arms. The Papamotor's torque arms are meant to be used for the front though you may want to make an attempt to get them to fit the rear fork. The ebike.ca torque arms are a 1/4 inch thick and a bit expensive but it's worth the investment and peace of mind. The rear fork hub connection looks very thin on your bike.

You are planning on riding your bicycle on the street, correct?

You'll also need to get the turn signals I mentioned earlier in this thread. If you do get the turn signals let me know, I've come up with a way to properly secure the rear light to the bike rack and the cargo cache.

Don't forget a good horn. I looked at the air horn with the connection to the water bottle type container which holds the compressed air but it looked too weird so I went with the hornit (www.thehornit.com) and love it.

spirit733t

hi there, thanks for the info;

ok can you direct link me to the correct torque arm and rear freewheel and also rack please.. please bear in my bike has no rack holders, so thats why i need to be a little creative as to how to put a rack on..

sorry what is a pitlock?

yea, the frame is quite thin on my bike, but its made from steel chromoloy 4130, which is apparantly really strong, so the thin tubes should be as strong as if not more than thick alluminium frames..well I hope

btw would I be able to use the 9 wheel freewheel from e-bike?

what do you think of my crank set/ chainset ( the part where you peddle, is this suitable for PAS)

Im planning riding on the street 90 % of the time, in fact it is for commuting to work on a six mile journey each way....

Im not planning on buying turn signals lol.. but I am planning on buying these lights



thats a hope district rear light, and front magic shine 872

will I be able to use my current discs for the conversion?

and how do you fit the e-bike ' control display gadget ' ( the thing that tells you how much volts/ amps speed your using and so on)

EBikeFL 

The torque arms are on (https://www.ebike.ca/store/store_connectors.php and the free wheels are on: https://www.ebike.ca/store/store_motors.php. I went with the Shimano 6-speed because of the name brand. The other higher free wheels don't look to be Shimano.

The rack holders will come with the rack. You need to be sure to get a rack for disc brakes. This is the one I have: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product but the one I mentioned earlier is longer and stronger.

Pitlocks are a bicycle thief's worst nightmare. Go to https://www.pitlock.com and order the front wheel and seat post locks. You'll need a flat surface on your seat post clamp if you don't have a flat surface then get this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product which is what I used and discard the skewer. Double check your seat post diameter before purchasing.

Yes, you should be able to use the nine wheel freewheel just be aware of the width of all the components.

That's tough. You won't know until you take the crank set apart. I tried first trying to install the PAS where Papamotor's manual had suggested but had to switch over to the other side of the crank set to make it fit. If you do switch the installation side don't forget to also switch the black trigger wheel. It has arrows which show the direction the front/rear bicycle wheels spins. If you don't get it right you'll go forward only when you pedal backwards.

Only six miles! I guarantee that you'll want to take a longer way to work because you'll have so much fun riding the e-bike.

Don't bother with those lights because the Bicygnals (https://www.amazon.com/Bicygnals-BIC2...s+for+bicycles) does what those lights do plus you have the turn signals. Get this to put the front turn signals on https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o05_s00_i00

Only your front disc not the back which is a shame since you have hydraulic discs. Check the width of the Papamotor's disc in the kit to the rear disc on your bike. Make sure the widths/thickness are the same. They should be.

The Cycle Analyst has a clamp but the bar I gave a link to earlier will work if you run out of space on your front bar. IMPORTANT: The Cycle Analyst is coming out in a new version. Make sure you ask for it. I have the 2.5 version but there's a newer one.

I feel like I'm writing a manual. Damn you, Spirit733t...damn you to hell.Lol

spirit733t

if the size is the same, then why cant I use my current one?

does the rack holder you mentioned come with connection/ clamps that can be connected to the frame, because my bike has no normal rack connections on the frame it self?

what do you think of 4130 chromoly steel? is it strong enough?

yes most definetly, but your help is well appreciated, an I can assure you that others will follow, as word get round how good the papamoor kit is?

EBikeFL 

You may be able to use your current rear brake disc. I had problems trying to get mine to fit. The hub motor has a certain diameter and if your rear brake disc has a fancy design pattern in the center then you can't insert it over the hub motor. Definitely try and use your rear stock brake disc if you can, even if you have to get some metal in the center cut without sacrificing the functionality/strength of the disc.

You should see two screws below your seat post on either side of the bar leading to your rear fork. This is one point where the bike rack connects too.

I have no idea about the strength of 4130 chromoly steel. Sounds tough though.

SiXiam

Yes, thank you very much for this thread EBikeFL! You have convinced me on the Papa Motor kit.
I'm still trying to decide which bicycle I want. I would be more interested in the twist throttle, so that rules out the Kona Lana'i.
Speaking of which, what size is your bike? 26 inch tires?

I don't know much about bikes, but I do know about all things electrical!
Whatever bike I decide it will be my first one not from a big box retailer.
I first was thinking of a Xootr Swift, but I figured it would be easier converting something that's full size and not a folder.

I should add that I'm building the bike for my work commute, which is just under 6.5 miles one way.
Hills are an issue. Not horribly steep, but just so long that I wouldn't be able to make it.

EBikeFL 

I'm glad this thread is helping a few forum members.

I have 26" rims and tires now. I've already ordered a pair of Sun Ringle MTX-39 rims in 26" to go with my Maxxis Hookworms. Sun Ringle has the MTX-39 listed in a 24" which I wanted and after an email to Sun Ringle regarding my lack of success of finding a vendor selling the 24", I found out they no longer manufacture the 24" rim.

Look for a bicycle that has hydraulic brakes...you'll need them. Also, look for a bicycle frame that will accommodate larger rims and tires since you'll probably want to move in that direction as I am. You'll save money in the long run from having to make all the upgrades to your bicycle as I am now.

We can always use your electrical expertise on this thread and on this forum. Please don't be a stranger.

Yeah, you don't want a folding bicycle for a hub motor putting out 48v 1000w.

The 48v 1000w will eat any hill for breakfast. I have a nice little overpass I go over and I do it at 28-29 mph.

I have a problem right now with my bicycle glove rubbing against the thumb throttle and engaging the hub motor. On several occasions I've had to suddenly lift the front wheel up and hit the brakes and on another occasion I had to spin the bicycle around on the back tire. The hub motor doesn't immediately disengage after the throttle is touched. Of course, I was laughing in each situation but it's something you may want to keep in mind. If you use a twist throttle and you put any kind of torque on the handle you could engage the motor. Then, if you try to hold up the front wheel you'd put more torque on the handle and further engage the motor instead of having it slow down...something to keep in mind if you do decide on the twist throttle.

Dhoward, a member on this thread with the Papamotor front wheel kit, has a twist throttle so you may want to send him a PM and ask his thoughts on using the twist throttle.

Papamotor sent me a beautiful twist throttle with a key on/off instead of just a red button. Ask them about it when you order your kit and if you need to add a few dollars to the price, it will be worth it. I'll have to post some pictures of the throttle soon.

Keep us posted on your build.

spirit733t

I knew that as word gets round on the this kit and also all the helpful info from EbikeFL, the papa motor kit is gonna become really popular, simply because its a good price and package and so much really helpful info on that kit..

so thanks again EbikeFL, you ve started a fan club!!!

EBikeFL 

Thank you, Spirit733t. It's a team effort.

My e-bike is a big hit where ever I go. I spoke with someone today who is commuting nearly 50 miles one way everyday. I imagine their gasoline bill must be close to $500 every month. Vehicles also stop when making right hand turns and stare at my bike even when their lane is free to turn into. I imagine the high gas prices are taking their toll and people are seriously thinking about alternate forms of transportation. All this attention is something you'll have to get used too, Spirit733t and SiXiam.

spirit733t

oh by the way, what does the red button on the thumb throttle do exactly?


and how is your battery, does the bms system work good on it.


and also when you charge your battery, can you take it of the bike, or do you charge the battery whilst it still on the bike?


and what the max range you have at the moment on one charge? and what is the range when you floor the motor all the way?


SiXiam .. my commute is is also 6 miles each way which also includes some hill, so we both in the same boat..


make sure whatver bike you buy has a strong frame, the konai lanai, has all a alluminium frame made from 7005 type aluminium, this is the stronger type so its good, personally I think you should get something with a 4130 chromolly steel frame, which is very strong

https://www.brightspoke.com/c/underst...materials.html

heres a good link on bike materials..

if you do get the kona, then your in good hands as its the exact same bike as EBikeFL,

so you can copy directly what EBikeFL did.. so should be easy process for you.

try not to get the weaker aluminium 6061 frames.. 7005 should be minimum for all round ease of mind..

other things to consider on your bike frame is can it easily take fenders and racks.. the problem with my bike is that it cant take these things easy, and I have to be a bit creative as to how I install these things.. but it can be done.. just more harder..

make sure your chainset/ crankset ( the part you pedal) is a minimum two piece set ( contains 2 parts).. so then you can install the PAS system.. ( pedal assist system).

and the safe bet I think is to go for the rear motor, as if the front has failure you end up worst case scenario fly over the handle bars resulting in a nasty accident..

and keep involved in this thread, it will help others and me too.. welcome to the world of cool bikes

EBikeFL 

The red button deactivates the throttle.

The Ping battery will not give you any problems. It's one of the best LiFePO4 batteries for e-bikes. The only problem is you'll want to have two.

I charge the battery both on and off the e-bike.

I get 15 miles for about 9.2 Ah using max throttle (30+ mph). The front fairing has helped in decreasing the energy used and increased my max mph.

I could easily do over 30 miles at say around 20 mph on a single charge.

The Kona Lanai is a good bike but the smaller components are basic. Some of them are starting to show signs of rust. I will be slowly replacing all the components to the Shamino XT lineup. Of course, I didn't expect too much for the price I paid for the Lanai. If you invest in a good strong frame with more than the average quality of parts you'll pay a bit more but you won't have to make many upgrades. Look for the downhill mountain bike frames and parts since these bikes are built to handle a lot of stress and abuse keeping in mind that you'll also want to add a bike rack and fenders as you mentioned.

spirit733t

hi, where did you buy your front fairing from, i think I need one too..

EBikeFL 

The front fairing I purchased from Zipper Road Fairings (https://www.zzipper.com/index.php). Talk to Karl, the owner and fabricator, about the Thriller model fairing which is the one I have (under the upright option on the website). Karl made my fairing out of a thicker polycarbonate due to the higher speeds attained by my e-bike so make sure you request the thicker material. Karl's assistant is named Debbie and you'll get a response from her if you send Karl an email.

I also removed one of the wing nuts used to secure the fairing on the front and installed the shortest length Pitlock I could get from Pitlock (I think it's a 23 mm shaft) with my key for security. I actually purchased four 23 mm Pitlocks but I only installed one because I wanted to see what the additional weight on the front would be like. I haven't had any problems and will install the other three locks this weekend. This is to secure the connection of the fairing to the two aluminum rods attached to the handlebar. The handlebar connections use allen bolts which you can use the ball bearing and hot glue method for security if you're really concerned about theft of the fairing. The 23 mm shaft is actually a bit too long and I will end up using the dremel to shorten the shaft for a nice clean appearance and weight reduction hanging out on the front.

You'll definitely get some strange looking glances with the fairing on your bike most people have never seen a fairing on a mountain bike.

spirit733t

hi again, can we have lots of high quality images/ photos of your completed bike showing all the parts,
motor, controller, your rack, battery, bms charging, close up of your forks, computer display... etc

and also lost of videos doing different things, like hill climbing, top speed? how the fairing works in he rain and so on.. that would be GREAT..

EBikeFL 

I think I can take some high quality photos for everyone to document my e-bike's change from mostly stock components to having higher end parts installed.

As you can tell, I use my GoPro camera every time I ride my e-bike. This is to document for the police who, what, when, and where if a vehicle hits me. You've probably seen on the news the two bicycle riders who were hit by a vehicle and thanks to the rear cyclist recording the bicycle trip, police were able to track down the driver and press charges. Drivers also seem to notice the camera and are a bit more likely to observe the three foot distance law while passing me.

I've taken video in the rain but there's not much to see. I can post a file riding in the rain if I can find one that's small enough to post.

The fairing is mainly to reduce the wind resistance so it doesn't help much with vertical rainfall. It should also have the added benefit of keeping the cyclist warm when the weather gets colder although my face and hands are outside the protection of the fairing. Something I can look forward too as winter approaches.

Not many hills here in Orlando. The one overpass I go over is about it as far as hills are concerned. I've gone over the overpass as other cyclists are walking their bicycles. They just give me a mad look as I fly by them. I probably should look like I'm straining to get up the hill to make them feel better.

I did end up using a chain lube and the noise on the videos has dropped dramatically. You can only hear the hub motor when I start moving from a standstill. I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o03_s00_i00 and its made a huge difference in how smooth the chain is now.

I'll do my best to have some "before upgrades" photos and ride videos by this weekend.

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

cool... nice.... looking forward to the vids and pics.. any chance of getting some pics of your current bike set up, especially close ups of how the motor is connected to your rear fork, and also is it possible to make some kind of diagram that shows all the screws and mounts in the correct order,that are used in the rear side..

on another note, can you help me in this issue,

my bike has absolutely no mounts to attach full length fenders, I can add clips on, but they are useless..

so how can I solve this problem with some creative thinking? any ideas, I am thinking that I would have to attach some kind of add on clamp or some bit of plastic on the frame and then attach the fender supports on to this?

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Once you have the rear bike rack on you will not have to worry about having a rear fender. The bike rack will act as your fender. The front fender on the other hand is harder to source. I don't have a good solution for you yet.

I use a rain jacket (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product) and rain pants (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s00_i01) anytime it rains which thankfully has been seldom. This two items mitigate the likely hood that I'll get wet. The only problem is my shoes. I think wearing a closed toe sandals would help or even using SCUBA shoes would work. Of course, if you have clip pedals then your restricted to wearing certain shoes.

EBikeFL 

Here's one of the promised videos I said I would upload to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ca9sRlqOok

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

thats great.. looking for ward to lots more

spirit733t

ah its says the video is private ? cant watch it dude?