chip1

I wish I had the balls to hammer out on stranger's high end bike with not a care in the world. I got to try out a Black Inc Evo but I just couldn't get myself to go all out on it fearing a freak accident. Just imagine if a squirrel came out of nowhere and you end up crashing it..

Campag4life

Hi grwoolf,
Nice to hear from you and its been a while. Let's see if my old memory serves. Aren't you a tad over 6' and you either owned or still own a high end 56cm Roubaix at some point?
As usual, I find your comments spot on. The 1 to 2mph diff is comparing the VIAS Venge with deep section wheels to a larger and more upright Roubaix with box section wheels and not a Tarmac at similar size to the Venge.

As you know, on the pecking order, body position and then wheel section both vastly trump any aero cues when comparing framesets...especially between Tarmac with some incorporated aero design...say with same headtube length....only handful of watt diff at very high speed.

Agree with your comments. True A to B between Tarmac and Venge with same wheels, same size, riding position etc is probably only 10watts at 24-25mph if even that. I mean the world champ Sagan chooses his Tarmac over the VIAS for many outings and no pro wants to give away free speed. Then there is the weight difference as well...Tarmac can come in lighter than the VIAS.

Btw, as to flagship bikes, I believe you chose the mac daddy...the new Trek Madone is amazing.

Any pics of your Madone with or without your Tarmac for comparison?

Cheers.

Campag4life

Didn't even think twice about it. Happened so fast. You don't ride or want to ride a bike like that without ringing it out. What would be the point otherwise? I group ride with fast guys on every type of bike from Pinarello to Ridley to Giant. I am used to riding fast. If I crashed it, I would simply buy him a new one. Maybe help him rebuild it and assemble it better than it was...his setup wasn't perfect. Hell of a competent bike and the owner was a man of great integrity. In fact, he was a fellow engineer...in his case electrical. No electric groupset tho.

69chevy

I rode with a guy on this exact bike last week. When I first saw it, I hated the color, but it's growing on me a little.

Inpd

Exactly. And that bike cost upwards of $10K.

It would be quite an ethical dilemma if that squirrel did jump out and you crashed it.

popeye

It's the pads, Black Prince would restore the braking. I doubt it's caliper placement.

Stratocaster

So how does riding a $8K bike compare to riding a $2,500 bike?
Could there possibly be $5,500 difference in feel/ride quality?

Campag4life

Why would Specialized spec poor pads when weak brakes are a known soft spot with the VIAS?

Campag4life

For one thing, the rider is lighter because he can no longer afford a steak.

Campag4life

Wrong on both fronts. He had the bike in the picture and he said he paid $7800 thru the local bike shop.
There is no ethical dilemma if I crashed the bike. I would replace it for the owner.

69chevy

I'm pretty sure the odds of crashing and destroying the bike are less than being struck by lighting while a shark is eating you.

Stratocaster

Haha! Nice comeback.
But I was sort of serious. And I mean no disrespect to anyone that can afford a $8K bike - good for you!
I can't imagine that there's much of a difference...but much of this is new to me, so what do I know?

popeye

Because they have to use the brake manufacturer pads. Show me a new bike that comes stock with after market pads. Black Prince pads provide braking equal to al rims in the dry, a big improvement.

Campag4life

I know a GM of a Specialized shop that sells a lot of VIAS's...in relative terms. He knows all about the braking. The braking...and no doubt applies to the one I rode...is directly proportional to how the brakes are set up. Technically brake set up on the VIAS is more complicated than a bike with std DA brakes. He told me that leverage from DA mechanical levers is poor and not only does the set up of the brakes spell the difference between night and day in braking performance, he said that VIAS's with Sram levers reduces brake lever force equivalent to a bike with std DA brakes....much less effort. He didn't even talk about the pads as being the root cause. He said its all set up and he knows.

RNAV

I think it depends a lot on where you live. When I lived in FL, I found myself really wanting an aero bike because . . . well . . . there wasn't anything to do there but go faster. But when I found out I was going to be moving back to the rolling hills of NC, I wanted more a climbing bike. My dealer in FL thought I was crazy wanting an Emonda over a Madone.

grwoolf

Yep, I've still got the 56cm s-works Roubaix. I went with a 58 H2 frame on the Madone with the low setback seat post and 120mm stem/bar (part of project 1 frame build). The fit is basically identical to my Roubaix with a 130 stem. Stack between the 2 frames is almost identical (and about the same as a 58 tarmac or venge as well).

My old Tarmac frame got built back up with spare parts and was sold. It was like selling a pet or family member, I loved that bike. Sort of a sad day, but it never would have been ridden and it was a quick way to get ride of the frame and a bunch of parts and let someone else get some use out of them.

I don't have any pics of the madone handy, but it's the "minimal logo" flat white paint version. Pretty boring, but I ride quite a bit at night and I thought white says "don't hit me" as much as anything.

WhyFi

This is the first I've seen the model; I find that colorway to be the most aesthetically appealing aspect of that frame.

Campag4life

Do you find a need or really a desire to ride the Roubaix in light of owning the exceptional Madone H2?
Reason I ask is...sounds as tho you have your 3 pts of contact set up equivalently between the two bikes and the new Madone with pivot seat post is known for its exceptional ride quality?

Last question is...do you perceive a difference in speed or watt reduction when riding the two bikes at the same higher speed? Especially since your riding positions are the same? Can't be more than a handful of watts at say 23-25 mph between the two frames with the same head tube length and riding position....if you are running the same deep section wheels on your Roubaix?
Thanks for any further thoughts.

Campag4life

The Madone is such an exceptional bike, kinda get where he is coming from...the Madone is really a do it all bike with pivot seat post. IMO, the Madone is the most technically advanced bicycle in the world. The Emonda is a great bike...absolutely, but if one can have their cake and eat it too....ride quality, handling and ride quality. Why not?...other than that little thing call price difference between the Madone and Emonda. On rolling hills of NC, no doubt you will love your Emonda tho...excellent bike.
The Madone is a very expensive bike when spec'ed to a high level.

grwoolf

The roubaix doesn't have many miles since getting the Madone, it is primarily a backup bike now. I put some aluminum rims and bigger tires on it, so I'll grab it on rainy days. I'll also take it out on recovery rides since it rides a bit smoother. The only negative I can say about the Madone is the handlebar. The bar is the bar, you just pick your reach (stem length equivalent) and width. The orientation of the bar is also fixed since it's an integrated stem. I like the shape of the Madone bar, but I prefer the FSA K-wings which I run on my other bikes. I like having a flat section in the drops rather than a full curve. I expect Trek may eventually offer some different bar shapes (I've seen some of their sponsored riders on different bars), but there is only one standard bar style today. I expect the bars deliver half of the aero advantage for the bike, so it's a fair trade off.

Based on my experience, the Madone frame/bars are good for 12-13 watts @25mph riding solo compared to the roubaix(or tarmac) with same wheels and position. I'm a bit of a powermeter fanatic and I've put enough miles on the madone in a variety of situations to get a good feel for it. At 300 watts, I'm seeing about .3-.4 mph improvement based on the frame/bars alone. It hasn't turned me into Tony Martin, but it's significant based on my experience. It's particularly noticeable in heavy cross/head wind conditions.

When it was time to buy a new frame, I was thinking new Tarmac before I considered the Madone. The venge was out based on the brake design. I can live with crappy brakes on my TT bike, but not my every day road/race bike. The aero thing was interesting, but I was skeptical of the 20 watt savings Trek had in the marketing materials for the Madone. I speculated that their numbers were optimistic, but I took a leap of faith that I'd see at least 10 watts benefit. My madone frame was about $1k more than a Tarmac frame. I decided I was absolutely willing to pay $1,000 for an "extra" 10 watts. Opinions will certainly vary on that point.

Campag4life

A great contribution and many thanks for sharing your perspective...you a man who knows and has owned and has ridden such fine machinery and even compared with a power meter.
I appreciate your perspective. Thanks again and ride safe.

redfooj

You sound like you wanna swap shoes with him

RNAV

I bought one of the first Emondas, back when only the previous-gen Madone existed (current-gen Madone photos hadn't even been leaked). If I were in a position to re-do my purchase today, I'd buy the current Madone for all the reasons you listed.

jamesdak 

Can't imagine something like that in a broadside wind. Heck got blown off the road the other day but a sudden gust on a small tubed bike...

Same reason I keep avoiding the sweet looking old school Trek Y-Foils for sale around here. Too much wind, LOL!

Fox Farm

Campag - it was interesting reading your assessment of this new bike. Any comments about the goofy looking bar stem? As for the brakes, your comments confirmed my presumptions that WHY would you try to re engineer a system that works (traditional brakes) with these brakes?