Why Wabi?
01-02-20, 04:13 PM
#26
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Wabi? Meh, meh and more meh, whether pre-Schnook or post-Schnook. Track geometry is dope. Slack geometry is a cynical calculation by the vendor to appeal to the lowest common denominator and not scare anybody with quick handling. Track geometry is a sports car; slack geometry is a family sedan or an RV with a bumper sticker that says, "We're spending our grandchildren's inheritance." It's your life: you can be cool or be a fool.
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01-09-20, 03:05 PM
#27
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To update on my issue with no 725 tubing decal, Wabi told me that they put them in an envelope and send it with the bikes because some people don't want it on. I didn't get one with my bike so they're sending one out.
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01-10-20, 03:06 PM
#29
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Damn you're a youngster. I wonder why the riders on the Pro Tour aren't riding bikes with track geometry since it's so "dope". Just to educate you some, road geometry isn't "slack". A Wabi isn't a gravel bike. And I doubt you've ever stepped foot in a velodrome. Many of us are actual cyclists who go on long road rides. We aren't like the Midnight Ridazz just blowing through LA traffic with green chains, purple rims and trying to avoid being plowed by a car by flat spotting the rear tire because real brakes aren't "dope"
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01-22-20, 11:21 PM
#31
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01-25-20, 05:58 PM
#32
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FWIW, the other day I noticed the track cog was a Surly, not an Andel is listed in the specs. It's a really nice cog.
01-26-20, 09:46 AM
#33
Your cog is slipping.
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02-04-20, 01:26 PM
#35
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Damn you're a youngster. I wonder why the riders on the Pro Tour aren't riding bikes with track geometry since it's so "dope". Just to educate you some, road geometry isn't "slack". A Wabi isn't a gravel bike. And I doubt you've ever stepped foot in a velodrome. Many of us are actual cyclists who go on long road rides. We aren't like the Midnight Ridazz just blowing through LA traffic with green chains, purple rims and trying to avoid being plowed by a car by flat spotting the rear tire because real brakes aren't "dope"
That said, I like the idea of roadie geo for a track frame, keep it old school.
What bugs me a lot about Wabi is that I look at their sweet Reynolds frames and wonder why they can't use old school semi-horizontal road bike 125 dropouts and a plastic cable guide on the bottom bracket so that folks can tool around on a retro 10 speed if they wanted to.
02-04-20, 07:18 PM
#36
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I have a Special and a Classic. The ride quality, in my opinion, cannot be touched anywhere near the price range. "Comfortable ride" is an understatement. I absolutely love both of mine! The Classic handles more like a sportscar than the Special but it is a very smooth, responsive and predictable handling bike.
I bought both of mine from them when Richard Snook still owned the company. I actually worked with him once upon a time ago in a bike shop in North Carolina. Richard could set up a bike better than anyone I ever worked with...these two are no exception. Wheels were perfect, absolutely perfectly tensioned and trued and keep their true even on rough road. I tweak them every once in a while but that's a minor tweak.
I bought both of mine from them when Richard Snook still owned the company. I actually worked with him once upon a time ago in a bike shop in North Carolina. Richard could set up a bike better than anyone I ever worked with...these two are no exception. Wheels were perfect, absolutely perfectly tensioned and trued and keep their true even on rough road. I tweak them every once in a while but that's a minor tweak.
Last edited by drlogik; 02-06-20 at 08:27 AM.
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02-09-20, 06:51 PM
#37
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I think that it completely ignores the fact that bicycles are much, much better for the environment, and that bicycles are, entirely, human powered.
A bicycle is an extension of your body whereas a vehicle is a huge, extremely large, extremely complicated amalgamation of an incredibly large number of moving parts, electronics, even gasoline.
The thought is just kinda... ugly.
Personally, I think that a vehicle should have a mostly utilitarian purpose. Whereas a bicycle can be anything you want it to be.
Some cars are cool, and I appreciate that some of them represent our best engineering, but most cars that can actually go fast shouldn't really be on the streets as th ere is no point to ownign them unless you take l them on a dragstrip or a track.
With the one exception of cars that can handle very well on the twisties (where a mountain raod is the best).
I don't think that you can take high level human concepts and apply them to bicycles in the same way.
Think of it like this:
On a track bike, you're almost totally focused on riding and they don't come alive until you're at or above medium speed. It's only then that you realize how they are basically welded to your body, and how they ride just oh so beautifully.
It's literally an extension of your body at that point.
Now, take a track car. You can say the same thing right? But you're controlling that thing with pedals, and knobs. You're mostly stationary the entire time, you pull and push on things to make this machinism do various tricks and turns.
You're controlling something, i'ts not an extension of you.
I just think that they are completely different philosophies and not comparable on a high level sense unless you literally divide a human beings desires into like 5 categories. If we all lived like that, we wouldn't be human anymore.
02-09-20, 07:21 PM
#38
Banned.
Personally, I think that cars and bicycle's cannot be compared. Some people seem to do that with me to "make fun of" the idea that high level concepts of what people want seem to transfer over.
I think that it completely ignores the fact that bicycles are much, much better for the environment, and that bicycles are, entirely, human powered.
A bicycle is an extension of your body whereas a vehicle is a huge, extremely large, extremely complicated amalgamation of an incredibly large number of moving parts, electronics, even gasoline.
The thought is just kinda... ugly.
Personally, I think that a vehicle should have a mostly utilitarian purpose. Whereas a bicycle can be anything you want it to be.
Some cars are cool, and I appreciate that some of them represent our best engineering, but most cars that can actually go fast shouldn't really be on the streets as th ere is no point to ownign them unless you take l them on a dragstrip or a track.
With the one exception of cars that can handle very well on the twisties (where a mountain raod is the best).
I don't think that you can take high level human concepts and apply them to bicycles in the same way.
Think of it like this:
On a track bike, you're almost totally focused on riding and they don't come alive until you're at or above medium speed. It's only then that you realize how they are basically welded to your body, and how they ride just oh so beautifully.
It's literally an extension of your body at that point.
Now, take a track car. You can say the same thing right? But you're controlling that thing with pedals, and knobs. You're mostly stationary the entire time, you pull and push on things to make this machinism do various tricks and turns.
You're controlling something, i'ts not an extension of you.
I just think that they are completely different philosophies and not comparable on a high level sense unless you literally divide a human beings desires into like 5 categories. If we all lived like that, we wouldn't be human anymore.
I think that it completely ignores the fact that bicycles are much, much better for the environment, and that bicycles are, entirely, human powered.
A bicycle is an extension of your body whereas a vehicle is a huge, extremely large, extremely complicated amalgamation of an incredibly large number of moving parts, electronics, even gasoline.
The thought is just kinda... ugly.
Personally, I think that a vehicle should have a mostly utilitarian purpose. Whereas a bicycle can be anything you want it to be.
Some cars are cool, and I appreciate that some of them represent our best engineering, but most cars that can actually go fast shouldn't really be on the streets as th ere is no point to ownign them unless you take l them on a dragstrip or a track.
With the one exception of cars that can handle very well on the twisties (where a mountain raod is the best).
I don't think that you can take high level human concepts and apply them to bicycles in the same way.
Think of it like this:
On a track bike, you're almost totally focused on riding and they don't come alive until you're at or above medium speed. It's only then that you realize how they are basically welded to your body, and how they ride just oh so beautifully.
It's literally an extension of your body at that point.
Now, take a track car. You can say the same thing right? But you're controlling that thing with pedals, and knobs. You're mostly stationary the entire time, you pull and push on things to make this machinism do various tricks and turns.
You're controlling something, i'ts not an extension of you.
I just think that they are completely different philosophies and not comparable on a high level sense unless you literally divide a human beings desires into like 5 categories. If we all lived like that, we wouldn't be human anymore.
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02-10-20, 02:38 PM
#43
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We're probably getting really getting into the realm of implied instead of measured differences, but welds could potentially make a difference in resonance, which could mean that the tig welded frame feels "stiffer", whereas the classic feels more compliant.
02-10-20, 02:48 PM
#45
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The classic (welded frame) is set up with the Sub-15 wheels (lighter weight), Challenge Parix Roubaix 27mm tires with latex tubes (feel like sew-ups) and a bullhorn bar. The Special (short lugged frame) is set up with drop bars, standard wheels, 30mm Challenge Strada Bianca tires and standard tubes.
The geometry may be the same but the Classic is more responsive, quicker handling and a little less forgiving but still predictable. The Special is a softer ride, very forgiving on all road types and steady as a rail in turns also. They both may be 6' 2" tall, 220 lbs with blonde hair and blue eyes but they are different beasts...at least to me.
--
The geometry may be the same but the Classic is more responsive, quicker handling and a little less forgiving but still predictable. The Special is a softer ride, very forgiving on all road types and steady as a rail in turns also. They both may be 6' 2" tall, 220 lbs with blonde hair and blue eyes but they are different beasts...at least to me.
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Last edited by drlogik; 02-10-20 at 06:06 PM.
02-10-20, 04:54 PM
#49
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[QUOTE=Lazyass;21322600]I only have 34 years of experience. How does lugs make the bike handle different?[/QUOTE
I have 52 years experience riding bikes, who cares? My first was a fixed-gear, a red tricycle, I wish I still had it for grandkids.
If you really want a competent answer, you might post the question on the frame building forum.
I have 52 years experience riding bikes, who cares? My first was a fixed-gear, a red tricycle, I wish I still had it for grandkids.
If you really want a competent answer, you might post the question on the frame building forum.
02-10-20, 05:22 PM
#50
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And yet you still cannot explain how lugs makes a bike handle different than brazing. No one can because there is no answer.
And if you want to go back to tricycle days, I have over 50 years of experience haha
And if you want to go back to tricycle days, I have over 50 years of experience haha
Last edited by Lazyass; 02-10-20 at 05:28 PM.