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Studded winter tires a bear to mount - don't think I could fix a flat

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Studded winter tires a bear to mount - don't think I could fix a flat

Old 12-17-19, 05:51 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
when mounting 1 set recently, I feel like getting old tires off is easier than getting them back on. my tire jack isn't big enough to use on my current 2 sets of studded tires 40mm & 2.25". I carry 2 toe straps cuz they help keep one side compressed down in the channel, w/o popping off (maddening) & allowing a bit more slack on the other side. learned that tip here & it really helps. I also carry 3 types of levers including a speedier lever which, when combined with traditional levers helps enough to keep carrying it

the toe strap thing works with road tires too, of course
I just wanted to highlight your mention of toe straps. while I haven't used those, I've used zip ties for the same effect. I recently had one combination of tire/rim that I couldn't mount even with a bead jack. Once I put a couple of zip ties on to hold one side down I was able to mount the tire.I make sure I carry a couple with me if I'm on a bike that has one of those difficult tire/rim combos
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Old 12-17-19, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by winston63
I just wanted to highlight your mention of toe straps. while I haven't used those, I've used zip ties for the same effect.
The Schwalbe tire levers with clips can be used as a third or even fourth hand.

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Old 12-18-19, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by winston63
I just wanted to highlight your mention of toe straps. while I haven't used those, I've used zip ties for the same effect
oh I've heard that before! me & zip ties are old friends out on the trail ... but with straps there's no cutting required (to remove) & they're reusable. I guess one doesn't need a toe strap. meaning, recently (Oct 2018) while looking for straps for my bike rack, I came across many small straps like what would be good for XC skiis

like this one


Last edited by rumrunn6; 12-18-19 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 12-18-19, 10:53 AM
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OP, what you really want is a rim that works with the tires you are riding. Rims and tires both vary, from manufacturer to manufacturer and to a lesser degree, model run to model run. What you have now is an undersized tire and oversized rim. I'm sure they are both within spec, but when pushing the limits, the end result (what you are riding now) doesn't work. (There are also loose tire/small rim combos where it is very difficult to keep the tire from blowing off.)

My suggestion: go to a local shop with a good mechanic. Ask him/her (her might be better; the mechanic with smaller hands may well be more dialed in to this issue) and ask what wheels/rims of what is available now are on the small size. Consider buying those rims/wheels to be full time winter wheels, Your tight tires live on those wheels. Being mounted full time, they will stretch out a little more. Also winter wheels save your other wheels for winter abuse and make going for those rare nice day winter rides really fun on your summer wheels and rubber.

Look at this as placating Murphy, Murphy of his famous "Murphy's Law" If you have spent the money to have wheels that make the rare winter flat no big deal, he cannot have fun at your expense. Also hard to deal with tires/flats have no place on bikes below freezing. Yes, I now hail from mild weathered Portland but I spent every winter until I was 26 in Massachusetts or Michigan and the bike was my only wheels. I rode cyclocross tubulars, in real part because the flats were so much easier to change in winter conditions. I rode in conditions (and lighting) where needing jacks and straps just to fix my tire just to get home - well lets just say "no thanks!".

Ben
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Old 12-18-19, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
OP, what you really want is a rim that works with the tires you are riding. Rims and tires both vary, from manufacturer to manufacturer and to a lesser degree, model run to model run. What you have now is an undersized tire and oversized rim. I'm sure they are both within spec, but when pushing the limits, the end result (what you are riding now) doesn't work. (There are also loose tire/small rim combos where it is very difficult to keep the tire from blowing off.)

My suggestion: go to a local shop with a good mechanic. Ask him/her (her might be better; the mechanic with smaller hands may well be more dialed in to this issue) and ask what wheels/rims of what is available now are on the small size. Consider buying those rims/wheels to be full time winter wheels, Your tight tires live on those wheels. Being mounted full time, they will stretch out a little more. Also winter wheels save your other wheels for winter abuse and make going for those rare nice day winter rides really fun on your summer wheels and rubber.

Look at this as placating Murphy, Murphy of his famous "Murphy's Law" If you have spent the money to have wheels that make the rare winter flat no big deal, he cannot have fun at your expense. Also hard to deal with tires/flats have no place on bikes below freezing. Yes, I now hail from mild weathered Portland but I spent every winter until I was 26 in Massachusetts or Michigan and the bike was my only wheels. I rode cyclocross tubulars, in real part because the flats were so much easier to change in winter conditions. I rode in conditions (and lighting) where needing jacks and straps just to fix my tire just to get home - well lets just say "no thanks!".

Ben
That's good and welcome advice. It's true that I didn't have nearly such significant problems with the same tires and a previous set of wheels. Those wheels crapped out. The current wheels (Stans Grail) were a little spendy, so maybe it's worth the investment in a new set of tires.
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Old 12-18-19, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
sounds like a plan if you're on the road, near civilization. just don't wander off into the woods ...

while I agree, the usual type of flats are less likely with beefy studded tires, I had 2 flats with studded tires one day. & I was alone out in the woods. it happens. but wasn't from road debris.



when mounting 1 set recently, I feel like getting old tires off is easier than getting them back on. my tire jack isn't big enough to use on my current 2 sets of studded tires 40mm & 2.25". I carry 2 toe straps cuz they help keep one side compressed down in the channel, w/o popping off (maddening) & allowing a bit more slack on the other side. learned that tip here & it really helps. I also carry 3 types of levers including a speedier lever which, when combined with traditional levers helps enough to keep carrying it



the toe strap thing works with road tires too, of course
Toe straps. Great idea!
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Old 12-18-19, 06:20 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by 2_i
For one it is very hard to get a flat with a studded tire. Second, if you struggle this is because you are presumably not very effective working with tires. There is nothing to be ashamed - we all learn. This video

How to get tire off without tools

shows how to get a tire off without any tools. There may be other similar instruction materials around. I would start with regular tires for the sake of training. From time to time I do it with studded tires for practice. In everyday life I am usually lazy and use the levers for speed, but just a little. You may say that rims vary and I presumably have the easy ones. OK, I do it with 16" tires too. On a small wheel you have far less margin than on large. Take your time, be patient, hands alone are actually sufficient.
That's warm weather and a non-studded tire.

Personally I would not use a tire/rim combination I could not easily repair at the side of the road. I had that happen to my in 1991 and I broke a VAR tire lever and another tire lever trying to get a tight tire OFF the rim. Since then if the tire/rim is really hard to mount, I use either a different tire or a different wheel. I do not want to be stuck out in the boonies or anywhere for that matter simply because I can't get a tire off the rim - especially in winter.

Edit. If I was buying a studded tire I'd take the CLEANED wheel with me to see how easy/hard the tire was to mount.

Cheers

Last edited by Miele Man; 12-18-19 at 06:24 PM. Reason: added another comment
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Old 12-18-19, 07:11 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
That's warm weather and a non-studded tire.
Different people operate under different circumstances and make different choices. The time I pinched the tube and rubbed through it, thinking that I was rubbing off ice, I was not going home but to some office. I got to my destination, took care of my goal there and then turned to the tire that I worked on in the open. I got the tube out of the studded tire, patched it, put the tire back on and continued with my tasks for the day. For all I know that tube may still be functioning on the bike without any repatching. State of mind often matters more than actual circumstances - here I wait to be admonished.
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Old 12-18-19, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
Different people operate under different circumstances and make different choices. The time I pinched the tube and rubbed through it, thinking that I was rubbing off ice, I was not going home but to some office. I got to my destination, took care of my goal there and then turned to the tire that I worked on in the open. I got the tube out of the studded tire, patched it, put the tire back on and continued with my tasks for the day. For all I know that tube may still be functioning on the bike without any repatching. State of mind often matters more than actual circumstances - here I wait to be admonished.
My point is that in really cold weather you do NOT want a tire/rim combination that's really too tight to remove the tire very easily. Plus in that cold weather plastic or similar tire levers can break a lot easier.

When I said that he video showed a guy changing a tube in a non-studded tire in warm weather I was referring to the fact that it did NOT show a studded tire being changed in cold weather. I ride in cold enough temperatures that you do not want to be working on anything with bare hands. YMMV

Cheers
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Old 12-18-19, 11:20 PM
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We have a nice winter weather now, but I cannot afford shooting a video on a workday. On the other hand, our weekend weather is forecast to be warmish. On the next opportunity, when stars align, I will try to put a wheel + my regular equipment out to freeze and shoot a video of a studded tire being taken off and put back on in the field. Heck, I'll try to do both 700c and 16". A studded tire is just a tire. To underscore the role played by the state of mind, when I was first putting a studded 16" on, I went into a complete panic - the smaller tires leave you well less margin to maneuver than large. I damaged the tube twice in two consecutive attempts. After I did it few more times, with more thought put in, it is now no different than large, basically deserving a yawn.
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Old 12-19-19, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
We have a nice winter weather now, but I cannot afford shooting a video on a workday. On the other hand, our weekend weather is forecast to be warmish. On the next opportunity, when stars align, I will try to put a wheel + my regular equipment out to freeze and shoot a video of a studded tire being taken off and put back on in the field. Heck, I'll try to do both 700c and 16". A studded tire is just a tire. To underscore the role played by the state of mind, when I was first putting a studded 16" on, I went into a complete panic - the smaller tires leave you well less margin to maneuver than large. I damaged the tube twice in two consecutive attempts. After I did it few more times, with more thought put in, it is now no different than large, basically deserving a yawn.
Look, I don't know what you are trying to prove, but you are missing the point. If you really want to address the concerns similar to the considerations of the OP (me), then I suggest you do the following: Ride for 2 hours at -5 °F. Then, out on some random trail or road, make a video of you easily changing your tire. With your superior state of mind, I'm sure that too will be a yawn.

There has been some very helpful advice and discussion on this thread. Thanks all.
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Old 12-19-19, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Look, I don't know what you are trying to prove, but you are missing the point. If you really want to address the concerns similar to the considerations of the OP (me), then I suggest you do the following: Ride for 2 hours at -5 °F. Then, out on some random trail or road, make a video of you easily changing your tire. With your superior state of mind, I'm sure that too will be a yawn.

There has been some very helpful advice and discussion on this thread. Thanks all.
I was trying to help. Your sarcasm/hostility is not welcome. Thank you.
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Old 12-19-19, 01:04 PM
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In an attempt to steer things back onto a productive track, what rims and rim tape are you using, @MinnMan?
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Old 12-19-19, 01:27 PM
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Studded tires are usually wire-beaded. IME, wire-beaded tires are usually quite easy to get on and off. I've used different sizes, brands, and with different rims. Never had an issue with them. Folding, tires, OTOH, are a PITA to get on and usually require me to use one of the plastic levers to pry onto the rim.

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Old 12-19-19, 02:36 PM
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I have a bike with rims that make all tires too tight. My solution is to use a Kool Stop Tire Jack™. It makes mounting tires pretty easy. Of course, you need a good lever to get the tire off the rim.
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Old 12-19-19, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
I have a bike with rims that make all tires too tight. My solution is to use a Kool Stop Tire Jack™. It makes mounting tires pretty easy. Of course, you need a good lever to get the tire off the rim.
What kind of rims?
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Old 12-19-19, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
In an attempt to steer things back onto a productive track, what rims and rim tape are you using, @MinnMan?
I was using Stans plastic tape. But that made me nervous b/c it rips easily (particularly from a poorly-inserted tire lever) and raised the possibility of flats from inside (i.e., from spoke holes). So I switched to velox. But as somebody pointed out earlier, I think the real problem is that the tires and rims are just mismatched.
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Old 12-19-19, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stevel610
What kind of rims?
Pacenti. PL23, I think. They were notorious for this problem and also for failing. The rear one already failed and has been replaced.
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Old 12-20-19, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
I was using Stans plastic tape. But that made me nervous b/c it rips easily (particularly from a poorly-inserted tire lever) and raised the possibility of flats from inside (i.e., from spoke holes). So I switched to velox. But as somebody pointed out earlier, I think the real problem is that the tires and rims are just mismatched.
Ah. The Velox tape probably isn't doing you any favors wrt tire mounting. Tesa 4289 and Pacenti tape (likely 3M 8898) have held up for me really well, one of them on the inside of a single-walled rim with spoke ends carefully trimmed flush with the nipple heads.

But overall, I think you're right that the rims are too tight to be comfortable in this situation. Keep us posted if something else works better for you.
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Old 12-20-19, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
A studded tire is just a tire.
Not my experience at all. Studs tear my hands to pieces when I try to mount the tires. I have resorted to using thick work gloves, like the kind used for gardening, in order to be able to manhandle studded tires without getting torn up. And this is at home; I wouldn't bother trying this roadside. (My commute is short enough that I can walk the bike back home and deal with a flat later at my convenience. I know this is not helpful advice for the OP.)

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Old 12-20-19, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
. Plus in that cold weather plastic or similar tire levers can break a lot easier.
That's why I carry a steel tire lever as a backup just in case one of my plastic levers breaks.
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Old 12-20-19, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
State of mind often matters more than actual circumstances .
State of mind doesn't change the fact that some rim/tire combos just don't get along very well with each other....and it also doesn't change the fact that some tires with very hard stiff casing become even harder and stiffer in very cold weather which makes the job even more difficult...When you ready to shoot your video make sure to choose a rim/tire combo which is difficult to work with and try using a brand new tire with very sharp studs and hard stiff casing.
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Old 12-20-19, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
That's why I carry a steel tire lever as a backup just in case one of my plastic levers breaks.
I might just get myself a set of metal tire levers as they should last forever. I've had Park and Pedro's levers break.

Cheers
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Old 12-20-19, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
State of mind doesn't change the fact that some rim/tire combos just don't get along very well with each other....and it also doesn't change the fact that some tires with very hard stiff casing become even harder and stiffer in very cold weather which makes the job even more difficult...When you ready to shoot your video make sure to choose a rim/tire combo which is difficult to work with and try using a brand new tire with very sharp studs and hard stiff casing.
I had a tire that I managed to mount onto a Matrix rim. When I tried to take it off right away here at home I had to use two Park cone wrenches (the rounded ends) to do it. Funny thing was the other tire of the same brand simply would not go onto the other Matrix rim.

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Old 12-20-19, 09:50 PM
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2_i 
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Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

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Originally Posted by wolfchild
State of mind doesn't change the fact that some rim/tire combos just don't get along very well with each other....and it also doesn't change the fact that some tires with very hard stiff casing become even harder and stiffer in very cold weather which makes the job even more difficult...When you ready to shoot your video make sure to choose a rim/tire combo which is difficult to work with and try using a brand new tire with very sharp studs and hard stiff casing.
I had no intention whatsoever of getting back to this thread, but got called on, so here it is even though OP has no interest. I took a pretty flat Matrix Vapor rim, taped with Velox, a new Suomi W240 tire, and new tube. I stumbled few times but it is what it is. I used a floor pump rather than my regular take-along, to shorten the video. Now you can tell do this or that - yes it will presumably take longer.

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