Tomate85

Hey people,
again me with annyoing questions.
I wanna replace my bottom bracket which seems to be crooked, i have Campi Veloce monoplaner brakes and found online a vintage NOS veloce bottom bracket. The thing is, i have no idea about sizes. My frame is an ALAN from 1983, racing, no track.
So, anybody could give a hand?
This is what the Veloce bottom bracket says:
36x24F
Axis lenght: 111cm
Bearing width: 66

I was researhing but i got even more confussed!
Any feedback's gonna be fantastic!
Best,

Tomate

Bianchigirll 

What do the brakes have to do with the bottom bracket?

Why or how is your current bottom bracket (BB) crooked?

What kind of cranks are you going to use on this bike? If you intend to reuse your current crankset you need a BB that matches your crank.

If you have older Campagnola Nuovo/Super Record type cranks you need a spindle that is asymmetrical (longer on the drive side) and the correct length (around 118 IIRC) to match your crank.

36x24 is the threading of the BB cups. Your cups should be labeled wither 36x 24 Italian threading, or 1.37x 24 English.

If you have amodern ('90s ) Veloce crank this may work but again you need to match the crank to the BB. As cranks became flatter/less dished the spindle got shorter so you need to really look close and the year of your crank and match the BB to it.

dddd

+1 All this ^^^

onespeedbiker

Veloce was introduced in 1993 and always had a cartridge type BB with a 111mm symmetric spindle (the first ones were plastic). If you are replacing a Veloce BB with another, the 111mm will work with a double and a 113mm with a triple.

Bianchigirll 

True but we do not know what kind of cranks the OP has. we know he has an '83 Alan with Veloce Monoplanor brakes but what cranks? CampI? Sugino? Ofmega?

verktyg 

Astabula...

I'm being mean.

Tomate85, we need a lot more information to help you.

BTW, Veloce BBs came in 3 styles and 2 widths: steel cups and solid axles, steel cups with hollow axles and aluminum cups with hollow axles... The lengths were 111 for doubles and 115 for triples.

BG, as you mentioned, they were symmetric, the spindle sticks out the same amount on both sides of the cartridge. Older BBs were asymmetric.

That's not really a big deal unless someone is a "fit dictator" as in anally fixated about "Q factor" dimensions (how wide the cranks are at the point of pedal attachment). Narrow Q factors were made for people with narrow hips. But, consider triples and MTB cranks which have wider Q factors (also, oversize tubes require a wider BB).

I've been using Veloce cartridge BBs with a lot of different cranks and if they fit, they work!

verktyg

Chas.

Tomate85

Thanks guys!
The monoplaner thing was just to put an accent on the thing "i want everything Veloce from that time".
The crank is a Shimano 600, i guess early 90', but i will replace it with a Campagnolo Athena, i just can't find a veloce from early 90'.
Thanks guys! You're awesome!

Tomate

Bianchigirll 

I don't think Veloce came out until the later '90s and you don't want one of the painted early ones anyway.

OK so you have a 600 crankset. If your going to reuse that you of course need a shimano 600 BB but again one that corresponds to the year or model of the crank, ie 6400/ 6401/ 6402 etc.


If your going to go with an Athena cranks then you need an Athena or most any Campagnolo but here again it has to match the crankset. Some pics would be a big help. OH and the Monoplanor style brakes first came on Chorus so depending on certain styling changes will determine if they are Chorus, Athena or Veloce.

Pars 

If you are going to go with a Campy crankset other than perhaps Record or Chorus, then use that BB. Chorus and Record I believe use asymmetric BBs, but I would need to research when. Current ones do I think, and late '90s for certain. I know my mid '90s Racing T crankset uses a symmetric 111mm BB. Not sure what these were based on (Veloce?), but at any rate, one of the midline Campy cranks should work fine for you.

If you want to use the Shimano 600 crank, a JIS BB might be better suited. I'm not clear on how a JIS crank on an ISO spindle effects chainline though.

onespeedbiker

Well no. Centaur has never been above Athena. What may be confusing is in 2000, Campy stopped the Athena line (for a while) and replaced it with Daytona. In 2002 Campy changed the Daytona name to Centaur, due to American copyright issues. it remained this way until 2010 when Campy re-introduced Athena (between Chorus and Centaur) as a lower level 11 speed, while Centaur remains a 10 speed below Athena.

Tomate85

wow wow wow! that's a lot of info! So i have a lot to work on right now!
Then i rather take it easy and maybe research and talk more about whats better. I got the Athena crankset for 30 euro (haven't buy it yet) and i thought it was a good deal, since as i said i find it imposible to get the matching Veloce. I thought about a vintage record from the 80' cause that would be the thing for my frame but then i love my brakes so i'd rather go along with them.
So basically if i want Campi cranks then i rather use the Campi BB, with some exceptions, and the Campi BB wouldn't suit perfectlly my Shimano 600 Cranck??
Well, every dey you learn something new!
Thank you guys, i really appreciate all the input!
Best,

T

Tomate85

This is the crankset

Tomate85

Wait wait wait! i just found this!!!

It sais it is a Veloce, i don't think is the same year than my brakes but might be close enough.
Just the right side for 25€. What do you think???

orangeology

i've once used a FC-01H Chorus(= identical to later Athena) crankset w Veloce BB (112mm although it's spec'd 115.5mm IIRC, w Aluminum cups) w no visible/mechanical prob. some might disagree and what do i know but a couple mm discrepancy in the crank/bb realm especially with old 5spd or 6spd set up can be quite superficial* IMHO.

*as long as the arm doesn't scratch the stay, i mean.

one grief that i had on Veloce BB was the weight. it's feel-ably hefty heavy, comparing to other Campy BBs.
only in case you're a WW.

jiangshi

I made a mistake, and apologize.

jiangshi

My apologies, I will delete my post. You are correct on the late 90's Athena. It uses a 111/115.5. I remember the source of my confusion. Totally on me.

onespeedbiker

The two use a different configuration of the same taper; one sits out farther (or shorter) than the other. Shimano uses JIS and Campy used their propitiatory spline that is slightly smaller (until 1994 when they switched to an even smaller ISO standard). If you try the Shimano Crank on the Campy ISO BB, it will sit 5mm closer to the frame than using a Shimano (or compatible) JIS BB. As a caveat, the pre-1994 spindles varied in size slightly, but usually not enough to be a problem.

Grand Bois

I don't think that "spline" is the word you want.

Pars 

The Centaur BBs are a direct replacement, though usually more expensive. That is what I got for using the Racing T on my Raleigh. From what I have read, the Centaur BBs have 3 sets of bearings in them vs. 2 for the Athena.

Bianchigirll 

What year are your brakes? Are you familiar with Velobase? It is a great sight complied by a bunch of bike geeks (some members here) and a wealth of information, not to mention a great place to ID CampI parts.


22 post and no pics of the OPs bike

cs1

One of the nicest BB's Campy made. I have them on two of my bikes.

Tomate85

Thanks Bianchigirll! I was already at Velobase and it just sais -early 90'? so i'm not so sure!
But sure Velobase it's a great place!

dddd

Since this thread has explored various of the spindle taper considerations, I will point out that the difference in taper "depth" of fit between JIS and ISO spindles is approximately 2.5mm per side, or 5mm in terms of the effective overall spindle length.

The precise ISO taper on Campy bottom brackets arrived with the introduction of their cartridge bb's: ...if it's a Campy cartridge bb, it's taper is ISO.

The difference in taper fit depth between JIS bb's and Campy's earlier cup/cone bb's is often as small as 1-1.5mm

JIS spindles fortunately tend to be particularly consistent in terms of their sizing, over their entire 40-something years of production.

Dura-Ace spindles are sized as JIS but measurements can vary slightly because of sharp-edged taper flats and what appears to be a subtle convexity to the taper faces. Dura Ace cranks mount to non-Dura-Ace tapered JIS spindles as expected with no length compensations needed.

onespeedbiker

I know you have done an exhaustive study with this, I was simply quoting Sheldon Brown; Square Taper Bottom Bracket Interchangeability. The accompanying photo shows a spindle about 6mm-7mm short of the end of the taper on the inside of the crank, so I always assumed it was 4.5mm on each side..

onespeedbiker

Fixed it thanks