Narhay

Interesting bike I just picked up, mostly for the derailleurs and brake levers. Wondering what you can tell me about it. It has a 1967 Campione Italiano sticker so it is at least that late but the derailleurs and components lead me to believe it is pre-1970.

juvela

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fine job with the photos

certainly appears boomery, or very close thereto

fork crown is Agrati "BRIANZA" pattern nr. 000.8038

brakes are Sport model, not 61

Way-Assauto headset

pedals are Sheffield Corsa model Nr. 655

there is a story in the trade regarding the Record model rear mech on the cycle

story goes that R model rear mech had gone out of production and Teddy wished to use it on this model so he persuaded Tullio to put it back into production for him

original wheels were likely Campag Nuovo Tipo large flange with tubular rims from NISI

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tyler_fred

I can’t add to the conversation but would like to say that that’s a good looking Bottecchia.

Narhay

This is really great information. Do you have an idea of model and year? I am assuming this would have been the Giro D'Italia model, maybe 1971 to at least 1973 which was one step down from the professional with full record.

juvela

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my estimate for model year would be 1969-70.

agree it looks to be the Giro d'Italia model.

was able to see a few small differences between it and the all out boomer examples owned by members, of which we have several.

seems a shame to break it up for parts when it is so original and in such fine shape - makes a wonderful time capsule item for its moment in history - not often one finds a fifty year old machine so all original and in such fine condition...(due lira di mio )

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Narhay

I agree with the sentiment but the mechs and brakes are destined to build up a slightly more prestigious frame to me, my 1963 Paramount, which has a bit more historical value in my opinion.

cudak888 

Even as a massive Paramount fan, I categorically disagree with the idea that the Paramount has greater importance. That Bottecchia is arguably a much rarer bird than the well-documented Paramounts, even though the Italian machine may not be of the same build quality. I might add that the level of originality on this Bottecchia is pretty superb. Not often you get to see them this nice, and it'd clean up phenomenally.

Also, I just can't see the logic in replacing the Weinmanns with Universals. Those brakes weren't common on Paramounts ever, and even BITD, I can't see someone making that substitution for the same reason I can't quite fathom it today - the Weinmann calipers work better (though I can see the levers being nicer to use). And if not Weinmanns, there are Mafacs out there which could fit the period and do an even better job.

But as long as there are pieces to pick up off the floor, I have to ask...what's going to happen to the stem?

-Kurt

juvela

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Narhay -

for mcmlxiii you shall require a Record front mech with a housing stop

also the Record rear mech worn by Teddy is not correct for Arnie, it is a relaunch and has some small differences from the original.

a Record rear mech on a 1963 model year machine is a bit of a grey area as the accepted nominal launch date for the Record rear mech is december 1963.

if was common at one time for parts makers to announce new products at winter trade shows when there were none in inventory to sell. first shipping often did not come until the following spring.


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Narhay

Currently what is happening to it is a few day quarantine and sitting in the garage. It is a very unusual stem with this carnielli logo plug.



As far as the brakes go I got the 63 paramount as a frame and the brakes I had on hand of a similar period were universal mod 61s and some mafac racers. Ideally I would find a set of early weinmann 999s but a suitable set hasnt cropped up so these levers are a nice matching find. I have mafacs on my px10 so I wanted to try something else, otherwise I feel like I keep building up the same 2 or 3 bikes with the same combination of parts.

I just cant really justify putting the same amount money to a gran sport or record set of mechs when a local bike like this pops up at a good price with the parts I desire. I understand my moral dilemma here as I spend most of my time building bikes back to stock but this frame doesn't fit and I have one that does that these parts would be better suited to.

noglider 

Before you take it apart, please see how it rides in its current condition (assuming it's safe).

cudak888 

There is one other approach, given that you have all the forum members listening: Offer the Bottecchia in trade for the complete set of parts you need. Titan bar + stem, early Weinmann 999's, Gran Sport or Record rear mech, and the rest.

Might work. Heck, you've got me wondering where I have my one non-matching early Weinmann 999 caliper, though I'm pretty sure it's a pre-1962 version with a single spring.

EDIT: A correct rear brake has shown up on eBay for dirt cheap. Will PM. If you win it, you can have my front caliper.

-Kurt

Narhay

Ok, one of you will have to come tell my wife why this bike isnt disappearing bit by bit but instead costing me (her) more money to put right.

Lascauxcaveman 

Oh, man. The FIRST rule is: Don't let the wife see the new bike. She'll be happier that way.

Second rule is, of course: Always have enough bikes so if the wife does see a new one in there, she won't notice the difference.

Pcampeau

Narhay, there’s really nothing to tell her but the truth. The bike is simply too pretty to go away in pieces. I hope she’ll understand.

juvela

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this mention of sneaking new arrivals past one's SO reminds me of a local vintage collector friend (who also rides a great deal)

he and his wife live in a fairly large two story house with a three-car garage. the garage has its own little attic area for storage. he has spoken of sneaking in new arrivals in order to maintain the "domestic peace and tranquilitude." of course when he has occasion to make a divestiture there is a big show of that.


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SJX426 

I practice the covert n+1. I don't like doing it but I won/t go there. I have enough hanging together that they don't get noticed. Although, I am surprised that two red bikes don't get attention when there was only one.

steve sumner

the Record rear mech looks very 60s while the Nervar Star
crankset looks 70s

KenNC

I agree that is a very attractive bike "as is" and just needs a down tube decal and a Columbus tubing decal to make it complete IMHO. I have a frame like that that I plan to build up to giro d'Italia style, though I don't expect to find a handlebar like that for it.
Would be interested in hearing how many teeth are on the small chainring. I've got a 52 38 Nervar I was planning to use.
I also think the Bottecchia line has its own historical significance, given Ottavio Bottecchia was possibly assassinated by fascists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottavio_Bottecchia

SJX426 

CL provided one for me. I didn't really know the brand at that point but what sold me were the chrome lugs. It looked like near top of the line so I paid more than I probably should have. It was a franken bike with a few original parts. It was part of an estate sale. Here is the before pic
1972 Bottecchia Giro D'italia 60cm, on Flickr

It is my size so it became a keeper due to the chrome lugs! I know the big ring is 53, not sure what the other is
Since my 1971 Motobecane Le Champion was taken out of service by a car, I took the parts off of it and turned my Giro into a Professional. The only original parts on the bike are the wheels, head set and BB. BTW the frame set is the same between the two. The price difference was in the components.

I have replacement decals to apply. The paint is incredibly blue. Too bad it isn't in as good a shape as Narhay example. Workmanship is not to be envied.

1972 Bottecchia Giro D'Italia (Professional conversion), on Flickr

rhm

Man, that catalog photo.

If someone posted that photo, we'd all say "that bike is too big for you! "

Narhay

Other common bikeforums chatter - fork looks like it is slightly bent back. Take the photo with the chain on the big ring. What's up with the dork disk?